"That’s all we are now, an average mid table premier league club"
Well that's clearly not true. You are actually a lot worse
It's fair to say that we have very rarely threatened to win the Premiership but we have a very good trackrecord of success in the other competitions in terms of trophies won.
I think that phase is over now and we are back to where we were under Graeme Souness. Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Arbeloa ect have long gone and Gerrard Kuyt and Carra are past their best. We need to rebuild our team and as such for the time being we are a midtable team.
It's not all doom and gloom, we have stability from the owners and a very good youth set up which we must get the best out of. We then need a manager who can make clever purchases and mould a new set of players for the years to come.
comment by Aggers Right Elbow And His Flat Back Nine Eating Mature Cheddar Since 30-01-2012 Agger says lump it up to Carroll Hooooofffff!. (U3402)
posted 5 minutes ago
It's fair to say that we have very rarely threatened to win the Premiership but we have a very good trackrecord of success in the other competitions in terms of trophies won.
I think that phase is over now and we are back to where we were under Graeme Souness. Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Arbeloa ect have long gone and Gerrard Kuyt and Carra are past their best. We need to rebuild our team and as such for the time being we are a midtable team.
It's not all doom and gloom, we have stability from the owners and a very good youth set up which we must get the best out of. We then need a manager who can make clever purchases and mould a new set of players for the years to come
-----------------------------
Most sensible comment I've ever seen from a Liverpool fan
wild rover championship anyone?
Cant argue with either prankster or Aggers comments!
wild rover championship anyone?
yes please. at least we didn't spend £100m to turn sh't. we already were
"That’s all we are now, an average mid table premier league club"
Well that's clearly not true. You are actually a lot worse
--------------------
8th is actually very much mid table so we can't be worse. Worse would be 15th. Its pretty simple when you think about it. They even have these things called tables, which you can look at see that we are pretty close to the middle but not worse than the middle. .
definitely the most expensively assembled mid tabled squad in Premiership history
'Average' that's the word I'd use to assess your level of support for the club. Average, yeah, that's about it. Me? I'm slightly different. Mad, stupid? Yeah possibly. Blind? No, pal, no rose-tinted glasses worn here. Fanatic? Now you're talking, that me. JimmyTheRed
Hm Aggers right elbow
Is the youth set up really that good? I have my doubts...
Fell in love with Liverpool when living in the Merseyside for a while, but my biggest love is still Ajax, being born and bred in Amsterdam.
And tbh, I think there is still a lot that needs to improve.
Said this a while ago already here, Liverpool should have a very close look at the Ajax youth academy, and copy as much as possible from that.
Hell, Barcelona did that when Cruijff was in charge there, and look where that took them!
But I think a couple of things are essential:
First, get explayers like Fowler, Barnes, Rush, Sami, and when they stop playing Carragher and Gerrard involved in the youth academy. Let them coach the youngster, give individual training sessions etc.
Ajax are doing exactly that with ex players like Bergkamp, Jaap Stam, Marc Overmars, Ronald de Boer, Wim Jonk to name a few (in total they have about 20 ex players coaching the youth players). Not only gives their experience as a professional footballer on the highest level them a bonus to "normal" coaches, you should not underestimate the "magnet" they are for talented young players to join the youth academy.
A player like Eriksen could have signed for some of the current biggest clubs in the world, where he would have earned maybe 5 times what he gets at Ajax. But he specifically chose Ajax because he thought that was best for his carreere, working with ex players as mentioned above.
Also, from the lowest youth academy to the first team, they should all play the same system. That way, it's made easier for a youngster to get into the first team, when he's already used to the style of play.
And finally, every game you should have 1 or 2 of the most talented youngsters on the bench...and give them 15 - 20 minutes play time, whenever the score allows it.
I know, this season there haven't been many of those opportunities, but looking back a few seasons ago, we could have bled some of the youngsters a lot more.
definitely the most expensively assembled mid tabled squad in Premiership history
---------------
That accolade would actually go to Mark Hughes and Man City, 2008-09, spending more than Kenny has and finishing 10th, and winning no domestic cups.
There are some who call me.........Tim. But KingKenny calls me Tom. (U7708)
Our academy does need improvement because for years it wasn't up to scratch. We have made some steady progress, and we bought in Segura and Borrell from Barca who helped develop the likes of Messi, Pique. Bojan, Fabregas etc.
We are moving in the right direction but we are nowhere near Ajax and Barca.
There are some who call me.........Tim. But KingKenny calls me Tom. (U7708)
.............
Excellent post.
It is pretty much the same model SAF has instilled at United.
Despite a lot of our ex players having a dabble at management, there are a hell of a lot of them still associated with the club.
I know for a fact that Wazza is still in awe whenever he bumps into Sir Bobby.
Fell in love with Liverpool when living in the Merseyside for a while, but my biggest love is still Ajax, being born and bred in Amsterdam.
And tbh, I think there is still a lot that needs to improve.
----
Correct
You mention Ajax and they really are the founders of Academy football as far as I'm concerned. We had the chance to play them in the next gen series and were beaten heavily. That's not to say our players don't have potential but that Ajax bring young players through quicker than we do.
However in England we are near the front in youth development and progressing each year. Suso, Sterling, Adorjan, Coady, Wisdom, McClaughlan are all players to look out for, as well as Flanagan, Robinson, Kelly who have already come through the ranks.
Found this on the City board.
Kenny doesn't think the squad is average.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2117870/Kenny-Dalglish-says-improving-Liverpool-hell-player.html
I seriously think it's time to introduce our Younger gems, Either this season or the next
I think some of them are being introduced by circumstance and opportunity at the moment.
i think it could all come down to this summer. if we get a quality striker and a decent winger i reckon we could mount a top four challenge next year.
i also think we need to start buying youth for cheap. not andy carroll for £35million and henderson for £20million. we will never be able to sell these guys on for more than that. so its a case of hit or miss. if you buy cheaper like coates. if makes it through to be a great player. he will be worth a lot of money. selling these sorts of players are always a good option to have. 50million for torres and we could have rebuilt our squad.
Giving youth a chance might be great & all but the question is are they up to it?
Also, Ajax & Barca had their model in place for some time, to implement suchthing will take time and forcing managers to use the same system. When it comes together its great (Barca of now), but it can also go stale (Ajax of now).
United, Team of Man
You really don't know what you are talking about if you think the youth academy has gone stale at the Ajax of now.
The problem with Ajax is not the youth academy, far from it. It's still producing top quality players. Have you seen the current youngsters in the nextgen series???
The problem with Ajax is, that since the Bosman arrest, they cannot keep there players for a longer period.
Ajax has always been a so called feeder club for the big teams in Europe. No shame in that, in Holland a football club cannot have debt, else they won't get a license from the Dutch FA. So, they can't pay big salaries, or big transfer fee's, like the average English / Spanish / Italian / German club.
But pre-Bosman arrest, Ajax was able to keep it's big stars like a van Basten / Bergkamp untill they were approximately 25 - 26 years before selling them to other teams.
Now, Ajax are lucky to keep their top players 2 years, before they go to another team.
Pre Bosman arrest, Ajax was able to keep a team together for maybe 5 years, and build something beautiful.
Post Bosman arrest, almost every year, Ajax have to start building a new team after loosing their best player(s).
Last year, they lost Suarez and Stekelenburg (goal keeper Dutch national team). This year they are going to loose their starplayer Vertonghen, and most likely the right back vd Wiel, and even Eriksen is rumoured to go.
They will have to fill that gap again with players from their youth academy, since they will not be able to a afford similar quality through the transfer markt.
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posted on 5/4/12
"That’s all we are now, an average mid table premier league club"
Well that's clearly not true. You are actually a lot worse
posted on 5/4/12
It's fair to say that we have very rarely threatened to win the Premiership but we have a very good trackrecord of success in the other competitions in terms of trophies won.
I think that phase is over now and we are back to where we were under Graeme Souness. Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Arbeloa ect have long gone and Gerrard Kuyt and Carra are past their best. We need to rebuild our team and as such for the time being we are a midtable team.
It's not all doom and gloom, we have stability from the owners and a very good youth set up which we must get the best out of. We then need a manager who can make clever purchases and mould a new set of players for the years to come.
posted on 5/4/12
comment by Aggers Right Elbow And His Flat Back Nine Eating Mature Cheddar Since 30-01-2012 Agger says lump it up to Carroll Hooooofffff!. (U3402)
posted 5 minutes ago
It's fair to say that we have very rarely threatened to win the Premiership but we have a very good trackrecord of success in the other competitions in terms of trophies won.
I think that phase is over now and we are back to where we were under Graeme Souness. Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Arbeloa ect have long gone and Gerrard Kuyt and Carra are past their best. We need to rebuild our team and as such for the time being we are a midtable team.
It's not all doom and gloom, we have stability from the owners and a very good youth set up which we must get the best out of. We then need a manager who can make clever purchases and mould a new set of players for the years to come
-----------------------------
Most sensible comment I've ever seen from a Liverpool fan
posted on 5/4/12
wild rover championship anyone?
posted on 5/4/12
Cant argue with either prankster or Aggers comments!
posted on 5/4/12
wild rover championship anyone?
yes please. at least we didn't spend £100m to turn sh't. we already were
posted on 5/4/12
"That’s all we are now, an average mid table premier league club"
Well that's clearly not true. You are actually a lot worse
--------------------
8th is actually very much mid table so we can't be worse. Worse would be 15th. Its pretty simple when you think about it. They even have these things called tables, which you can look at see that we are pretty close to the middle but not worse than the middle. .
posted on 5/4/12
definitely the most expensively assembled mid tabled squad in Premiership history
posted on 5/4/12
'Average' that's the word I'd use to assess your level of support for the club. Average, yeah, that's about it. Me? I'm slightly different. Mad, stupid? Yeah possibly. Blind? No, pal, no rose-tinted glasses worn here. Fanatic? Now you're talking, that me. JimmyTheRed
posted on 5/4/12
Hm Aggers right elbow
Is the youth set up really that good? I have my doubts...
Fell in love with Liverpool when living in the Merseyside for a while, but my biggest love is still Ajax, being born and bred in Amsterdam.
And tbh, I think there is still a lot that needs to improve.
Said this a while ago already here, Liverpool should have a very close look at the Ajax youth academy, and copy as much as possible from that.
Hell, Barcelona did that when Cruijff was in charge there, and look where that took them!
But I think a couple of things are essential:
First, get explayers like Fowler, Barnes, Rush, Sami, and when they stop playing Carragher and Gerrard involved in the youth academy. Let them coach the youngster, give individual training sessions etc.
Ajax are doing exactly that with ex players like Bergkamp, Jaap Stam, Marc Overmars, Ronald de Boer, Wim Jonk to name a few (in total they have about 20 ex players coaching the youth players). Not only gives their experience as a professional footballer on the highest level them a bonus to "normal" coaches, you should not underestimate the "magnet" they are for talented young players to join the youth academy.
A player like Eriksen could have signed for some of the current biggest clubs in the world, where he would have earned maybe 5 times what he gets at Ajax. But he specifically chose Ajax because he thought that was best for his carreere, working with ex players as mentioned above.
Also, from the lowest youth academy to the first team, they should all play the same system. That way, it's made easier for a youngster to get into the first team, when he's already used to the style of play.
And finally, every game you should have 1 or 2 of the most talented youngsters on the bench...and give them 15 - 20 minutes play time, whenever the score allows it.
I know, this season there haven't been many of those opportunities, but looking back a few seasons ago, we could have bled some of the youngsters a lot more.
posted on 5/4/12
definitely the most expensively assembled mid tabled squad in Premiership history
---------------
That accolade would actually go to Mark Hughes and Man City, 2008-09, spending more than Kenny has and finishing 10th, and winning no domestic cups.
posted on 5/4/12
There are some who call me.........Tim. But KingKenny calls me Tom. (U7708)
Our academy does need improvement because for years it wasn't up to scratch. We have made some steady progress, and we bought in Segura and Borrell from Barca who helped develop the likes of Messi, Pique. Bojan, Fabregas etc.
We are moving in the right direction but we are nowhere near Ajax and Barca.
posted on 5/4/12
There are some who call me.........Tim. But KingKenny calls me Tom. (U7708)
.............
Excellent post.
It is pretty much the same model SAF has instilled at United.
Despite a lot of our ex players having a dabble at management, there are a hell of a lot of them still associated with the club.
I know for a fact that Wazza is still in awe whenever he bumps into Sir Bobby.
posted on 5/4/12
Fell in love with Liverpool when living in the Merseyside for a while, but my biggest love is still Ajax, being born and bred in Amsterdam.
And tbh, I think there is still a lot that needs to improve.
----
Correct
You mention Ajax and they really are the founders of Academy football as far as I'm concerned. We had the chance to play them in the next gen series and were beaten heavily. That's not to say our players don't have potential but that Ajax bring young players through quicker than we do.
However in England we are near the front in youth development and progressing each year. Suso, Sterling, Adorjan, Coady, Wisdom, McClaughlan are all players to look out for, as well as Flanagan, Robinson, Kelly who have already come through the ranks.
posted on 5/4/12
Found this on the City board.
Kenny doesn't think the squad is average.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2117870/Kenny-Dalglish-says-improving-Liverpool-hell-player.html
posted on 5/4/12
I seriously think it's time to introduce our Younger gems, Either this season or the next
posted on 5/4/12
I think some of them are being introduced by circumstance and opportunity at the moment.
posted on 5/4/12
i think it could all come down to this summer. if we get a quality striker and a decent winger i reckon we could mount a top four challenge next year.
i also think we need to start buying youth for cheap. not andy carroll for £35million and henderson for £20million. we will never be able to sell these guys on for more than that. so its a case of hit or miss. if you buy cheaper like coates. if makes it through to be a great player. he will be worth a lot of money. selling these sorts of players are always a good option to have. 50million for torres and we could have rebuilt our squad.
posted on 6/4/12
Giving youth a chance might be great & all but the question is are they up to it?
Also, Ajax & Barca had their model in place for some time, to implement suchthing will take time and forcing managers to use the same system. When it comes together its great (Barca of now), but it can also go stale (Ajax of now).
posted on 6/4/12
United, Team of Man
You really don't know what you are talking about if you think the youth academy has gone stale at the Ajax of now.
The problem with Ajax is not the youth academy, far from it. It's still producing top quality players. Have you seen the current youngsters in the nextgen series???
The problem with Ajax is, that since the Bosman arrest, they cannot keep there players for a longer period.
Ajax has always been a so called feeder club for the big teams in Europe. No shame in that, in Holland a football club cannot have debt, else they won't get a license from the Dutch FA. So, they can't pay big salaries, or big transfer fee's, like the average English / Spanish / Italian / German club.
But pre-Bosman arrest, Ajax was able to keep it's big stars like a van Basten / Bergkamp untill they were approximately 25 - 26 years before selling them to other teams.
Now, Ajax are lucky to keep their top players 2 years, before they go to another team.
Pre Bosman arrest, Ajax was able to keep a team together for maybe 5 years, and build something beautiful.
Post Bosman arrest, almost every year, Ajax have to start building a new team after loosing their best player(s).
Last year, they lost Suarez and Stekelenburg (goal keeper Dutch national team). This year they are going to loose their starplayer Vertonghen, and most likely the right back vd Wiel, and even Eriksen is rumoured to go.
They will have to fill that gap again with players from their youth academy, since they will not be able to a afford similar quality through the transfer markt.
Page 1 of 1