buy a smaller club in the English league and use our following to take us up the scales

- - - -

Good luck with that.

That's about 120 seconds of my life that I won't get back again.

tell me why it would not work?. A new co with money that buys over the smallest of clubs?. can it or cannot be done??

Money can buy you most things. Can it buy you supporters loyalty?

Don't like united, but don't want city to win the league as they epitomise everything that is wrong with modern day football.

I thought it was the Rangers who epitomised everything that is wrong with football.

Don't like united, but don't want city to win the league as they epitomise everything that is wrong with modern day football. Over inflating both the transfer fee and wages markets.


Much like what Rangers have been doing for years

I'm sorry, but you done wrong and you need to accept your punishment.

However, the relevant authorities are also doing wrong in that they will paralyse your club but take your money.

There is nothing wrong with having debt if it is manageable, but what is wrong is using £9million of PAYE for yourself, when the local florists and local businesses (who are already struggling during this economic climate) aren't getting paid.

To me this isn't a matter of football, it's about greed from rich men who have made a good amount of money by ripping off local people and then they will leave the responsibility to the working class supporters.

Rangers should be punished and in Division Three. It'll cripple our game and I will miss the derbies, but if there is any justice in the Scottish game then they should just go down to the Third Division and take their punishment. The SPL have sickened me. Punish them and demote them. You can't punish them and take their money!

Nothing but a glory hunter. Refuse to back a newco and wants to go to England. How many times do you need to be told the answer is NO.

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totally disagree. epl is in another money league.

you know what gets me, sky buy an old firm game, and sell it around the world to the likes of al jazzera an other networks, its no wonder we are in the mess we are in.

i also blame hmrc, for the loopholes available to be taken advantage of and how they allow companies to lose control of spiralling debts. Don't blame Rangers for everything.

David Murray's fault Tim

So it's HMRC's fault now.

I'm noticing a pattern here, it's everyone's fault apart from Rangers'.

i also blame hmrc, for the loopholes available to be taken advantage of and how they allow companies to lose control of spiralling debts. Don't blame Rangers for everything.


Murray was told at the time that using the EBT'S were dodgy,he ignored the warnings and did it anyway,thats why he couldn't get out of the club quick enough and sold to whyte.He knew fine well he fked up,Don't blame hmrc they are only looking to get back what they are owed.

HMRC,

It's Murrays fault for using EBT's in the first place. He knew that they could come back to bite him on his erchie but he still continued with it anyway.

What is strange about all this is that we are all on here, and people on radio phone ins, paper columns etc screaming for "justice".

Forgetting that according to the rules in place right now, Rangers have already been punished to the full extent of the SFA & SPL's abilities.

There are no other penalties open.

Hence the reason for the rushed SPL meeting with all the talk of 15pt or greater penalties, 75% deduction of league earnings etc.

Is this right? no.

Is it fair that charges & penalties are being made to suit the "crimes" of Rangers? no.

Does this show that in fact the SFA and indeed the SPL rules are about as useful as a chocolate frying pan? Yes.

What should happen to Rangers? I believe we will be financially scuppered for years in any event. With the crazy embargo in place we are in REAL trouble. But I reckon that will be either removed or at worst reduced to an embargo on paying for players until all footballing debts paid off (which cannot be done during a CVA but a new owner can clearly choose to do this).

To the OP - there is zero chance of the outcome you suggest. And your comment that you WOULD support an English team rebranded as Rangers, but would not support Rangers in the SFL Div 3 maybe shows that you would be better just not bothering in either event.

Regarding the re-writing of the rules this is wrong! The court of arbitration would rule it illegal! You cannot write rules retrospectively! So for that DC1 I agree!

I have championed the Div 3 route as the tru and proper route UNLESS all debt is repaid! HMRC is a direct result of SDM and this is why the "march" to Hampden disappointed me! SDM is the culprit and the blame lies at his door for a)the big tax case and b) selling to Whyte. Though SDM will see it as a master stroke stripping him of all liability for BTC.

As for "buying" a small club! With what? And then asking the Gers fans to travel to Torquay etc this is madness! We are a Scottish club that is all!

Super Ally

"all debt repaid".

A CVA means that creditors will agree that the amount they are owed is reduced, so that any settlement is inf "full & final settlement". Post CVA club has no debt.

NewCo has no debt at all.

So what does "all debt repaid" mean?

Do you think that in either event, after an HMRC win, that £134m is going to be paid out?

And do you think that would happen from a Div 3 club?

Some good points made here.

Regarding the "hundreds of clubs around the world are guilty of over spending in the 10's and 100's of millions" - hopefully Uefa will get tough on their stated intentions and will reign in some of this ridiculous practice that has been allowed to go on for far too long.

Henrik - "The SPL have sickened me. Punish them and demote them. You can't punish them and take their money" - spot on mate!

Reading between the lines of Neil Doncaster's comments last night, it appears the other SPL clubs will do whatever they need to do to accommodate a newco leapfrogging 3 leagues straight into the SPL should the 'real' Rangers fail to survive via CVA. Sickening indeed.

The whole crux of the problems in Scottish football are that the fans are constantly ignored, treated like turnstyle fodder, taken for granted and asked to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong.

It's shameful and disgusting. Fan based ownership is the only way forward for all clubs - we need to rid ourselves of the incompetent boardroom ego-maniacs and reclaim the game.

How do we do that?

coop

If you believe Rangers have already been punished to the full extent of the SFA & SPL's abilities, you need to have a word with yourself mate, you really do.

DC1 - paying all debt means that! I am TOTALLY against a CVA. IF HMRC win the tax case then we are liquidated! As for Newco its a newco and therefore has no liability for debts.

Super Ally

You dont really make much sense mate to be honest.

You are TOTALLY against a CVA as the WHOLE debt is not being repaid if the club goes down that route.....but you are open to a Newco because it would have no debt liability.

A CVA is a voluntary agreement made by the companies we owe....that means THEY are telling us the debt they are owed will be written off if we pay X amount instead of the whole sum....the decision lies with them not us.

Liquidation would literrally mean the companies we owe get next to nothing, yet a newco Rangers would be able to start up, debt free, and build itself back up again.

I understand the moral point you are trying to make here, but surely paying something back instead of nothing is at least an option and not TOTALLY unnacceptable??.

If a CVA can be agreed, I'm all for it, becasue the decison being made on our debts would be taken by those we owe, not us ourselves, and we would be debt free after it also, it is the law of the land so its acceptable enough for me.

If you owed a matea fiver and he took a pint off you instead....would that be TOTALLY unacceptable for you???

Stevie - short of expelling or suspending Rangers, then yes, the SFA are done.

As to the SPL, they do not have rules in place beyond the 10pts per season, hence the scramble to come up with new ones, specifically targeted at Rangers (15pts or 1/3 of previous year's total - variable penalties for the same "crime"?)

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"short of expelling or suspending Rangers, then yes, the SFA are done."

That in itself is exactly what I am talking about mate.......they could turf us out for breaking their rules, keeping us in is absolutely not the maximum punishment!!

As for the SPL.....actually read the thing mate

"Minimum of 15 points deducted from any club entering administration".....yes that is a harsher punishment than what is already in place.

"10-point penalty for two seasons for any club that TRANSFERS ITS SHARE IN THE SPL TO A NEW COMPANY".....this would only happen if Rangers had to new co

"75% reduction in payments to ANY CLUB RELAUNCHED AS A NEW COMPANY for a period of three seasons"....again, a new co

"Requirement for clubs to pay players on time and to report any failure to pay wages".....more than Rangers involved with this one, namely Hearts

"Requirement for clubs to report any failure to pay PAYE/NIC"...which is a right and proper thing to do

"Player registration embargo imposed on any club failing to pay PAYE/NIC"......which again, is a correct thing to do, PAYE and NIC is not something ANYONE can pick and choose when to pay and when not to, I cant do that, my work cant, neither should a football club be able to.

So basically, the worst of the "sanctions" being imposed by the SPL, ie the 10 point penalty for two seasons and the 75% reduction in payments....only applies to a new co taking Rangers place in the SPL.

The key point here is that the SPL are virtually allowing a completely new company to enter in Scottish Football at SPL level in the first place!!!

If Rangers need to new co, they should have to reapply at the bottom level, what the SPL are doing is making it possible for Rangers to skip all that and stay i the top teir, but suffer points deductions and a drop in payments as a result.

A $hitload of bears need to understand how an why the majority of this is being done.......to keep Rangers in the league, in the top teir!

I dont want special treatment, EITHER WAY....but I'm not going to sit and barack the SPL/SFA for being TOO HARSH when they are virtually breaking their backs to keep us where we are in the first place and jeopardising sporting integrity to do so...how the hell is that being TOO HARSH????

If Rangers can agree a CVA, the worst outcome from the SPL will be a 15 point deducion instead of 10 points if we are still in admin....thats it.

If we new co, we will have less money but still be getting something and likely more than we would get i the third division....and we would have massive points deductions but still be playing in the top league in this country.

IT could be a helluva lot worse....we could be punished far far far more harshly.

We could be compeltely denied access again to the SFL/SFA/SPL, told where to go and COMPLETELY wound up like Third Lanark. with the stadiu beig knocked down and turned into flats....people need to remember this!!