Comment deleted by Site Moderator
You only did this so I gave you the 5 stars I promised
Brilliant piece though and agree with every word
Hippo
FFS have a drink or something.
Iv never liked the 'where was blah blah when he was 20' or where was blah blah when he was this and that age' because players develop at different rates.
Just because Jones is at United at 20, does that make him better than Jones if he was still at Blackburn? Not really. Im just saying that Jones hasn't really shown enough in games to suggest he will be a world class CB. If he wasnt english and brave, they hype surrounding him wouldnt be there.
Having said that, I still believe he WILL become a very good CB, maybe not quite as good as the media are making out but no doubt a first team regular
Ha ha Macca. True but articles get pushed down pretty quickly and then nobody notices them so that's also why I did this.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I see where you're coming from Smalling Jones, but the fact is that Jones is 20 years old. And in my opinion he has shown enough for Blackburn, United in the first half of the season and for the England u21s last Summer that he has the abililty to go all the way.
People like Hippo are overreacting by saying he has absolutely no awareness or positioning. That's so over the top and just silly. I'll admit he's rash and he needs to learn, which I am sure he will.
I watched him and Smalling at the Euro U21 last summer and they were amazing. I think they kept 2 clean sheets out of 3 games and both looked like top top players both individually, and more promisinly, as a partnership.
However, since making the next step up to the Preimier League, he hasnt looked anywhere near as assured and comfortable. Hopefully that is down to him needing time to adjust to playing aainst men rather than boys.
Exactly, both of them were class last Summer. And in my opinion they both carried that form into the start of this season as well. People were raving about Jones for a reason. But yes, he was caught out and exposed at times. Probably a mixture of being at a new club (and a much bigger one at that) and from being played in different positions in which different things were asked of him.
Anybody would've struggled to maintain a high level of performance. And anyway, he actually played well last night!
I just dont see the logic in playin Jones over Rafael last night
Rafael wouldve offered far more going forward
Jones got a yellow and was rash at times, something Rafael is often critisized for
Jones was up against Nasri/SilvaAguero/Tevez so hegith was never an issure
I feel Fergie treats Rafael a bit unfairly. He has been amazing everytime he has played this season imo and one poor game shoudlnt warrant being dropped otherwise EVra would never play for us again
I agree with you completely. Rafael has been pretty good for United this season and one bad game shouldn't have seen him dropped. City play quite narrow so if we were going to get any joy it was likely to come from down the flanks. So you would imagine that playing a full back who can cross would have been a good idea.
However I think Fergie was worried Rafael might switch off so opted for Jones. Which i think is harsh on Rafael because there have been plenty of big games where he's put in a performance. I
The problem is complex and multi-faceted.
It stems from the issue that MUFC currently have no RB worthy of the name.
That said both Smalling, Jones and even Valencia, are better in that position than Raphael. Raphael is at best a back-up winger who may have to wait for some retirements or transfers from the club to claim that position. Defensively he is a liability. And that will come home to roost as they say.
Smalling is a good long-term prospect as CB and Jones may become so as well. It takes time to establish yourself as part of the main central defensive partnership of England's greatest ever club. He may do that or he may just become a very useful midfielder- nowher near Scholes or Keane perhaps - but I really think he has been the best of SAF's recent signings. He is the least of my worries about the current squad. In terms of importance I feel the main issues for SAF and MUFC to sort out swiftish are:
*The purchase of a proper RB.
*A more reliable EPL experienced GK - unless Lindegaard is given the chance.
*A genuine, EPL experienced, striker, i.e. one that knows where the net is, and does nothing else but score goals (Lineker, Greaves, Clough, RvN are fine examples).
That's all.
Have to disagree big time on your first two main issues, me. And I have problems with your last one too.
1) Rafael is actually quite good, he at least has done enough to merit a chance at claiming the spot as his own. With Jones and Smalling capable of playing that position then the purchase of a proper right back is definitely not a main issue.
With the decline of Evra and no left back alternatives then surely that side is a much more important issue?
2) De Gea is much better than Lindegaard. His form from the last few months has been near flawless and you want to replace him??? I can't figure that out
3)Who is this genuine, EPL experienced striker then? How much you think Fergie is willing to spend on him? What age would this proven striker be? It's not only the owners who don't want to spend big money on players over a certain age. Fergie doesn't either. His history in the transfer market proves that.
comment by Patriarch (U11015) posted 13 minutes ago
Have to disagree big time on your first two main issues, me. And I have problems with your last one too.
1) Rafael is actually quite good, he at least has done enough to merit a chance at claiming the spot as his own. With Jones and Smalling capable of playing that position then the purchase of a proper right back is definitely not a main issue.
With the decline of Evra and no left back alternatives then surely that side is a much more important issue?
2) De Gea is much better than Lindegaard. His form from the last few months has been near flawless and you want to replace him??? I can't figure that out
3)Who is this genuine, EPL experienced striker then? How much you think Fergie is willing to spend on him? What age would this proven striker be? It's not only the owners who don't want to spend big money on players over a certain age. Fergie doesn't either. His history in the transfer market proves that.
-------------------
He's ben pushing this agenda all season long claiming City will win the title by a mile
He suggested playing Berba as the lone frontman until we got a better striker
De Gea will be outstanding and he's already bloody good
I would ignore him. If he can't see the development of players like Danny and Rafael, he is beyond hope
jones needs a position first and foremost, and when we find him one he needs a consistent run playing in it.
comment by Patriarch (U11015) posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
Have to disagree big time on your first two main issues, me. And I have problems with your last one too.
1) Rafael is actually quite good, he at least has done enough to merit a chance at claiming the spot as his own. With Jones and Smalling capable of playing that position then the purchase of a proper right back is definitely not a main issue.
=================
It isn't just about disagreements. It's plain and simple Raphael just isn't good enough to claim the position for MUFC. AFC maybe but that's a different story.That doesn't really come into the equation. I think SAF is more than well aware of this, so I have no worries there. His brother has already being postioned out of the club. He won't be coming back.
comment by UnitedRedMacca- I taught Rooney and Berbatov t... (U2024)
-------------------
He's ben pushing this agenda all season long claiming City will win the title by a mile
He suggested playing Berba as the lone frontman until we got a better striker
De Gea will be outstanding and he's already bloody good
I would ignore him. If he can't see the development of players like Danny and Rafael, he is beyond hope
=========================
Don't really see why I should respond to claims that are such falsehoods, but here goes.
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
I have never questioned De Gea's shot stopping or ability to make astonishing saves. He will however make drop too many clangers (a la Barthez who was an unreliable joke) for him to be reliable enough for MUFC. I am a firm believe of reliability in GK's over camera saves. Think Hart, Given, Schmeichel, vdS.
Danny Welbeck may well make an average sub but, in the meantime MUFC do need a proper striker. Love the club but some times I despair about some of my younger colleagues rose-tinted glasses.
Oh, and by the way, don't lie about things I have written. It doesn't help anyone
Don't really see why I should respond to claims that are such falsehoods, but here goes.
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
---------------------------------------------------
This is what you wrote a couple of months ago and it wasn't the only time you suggested using Berba as the lone striker either or that City would win the league if we continued with Welbeck
You may retract accusing me of lieing now
See below
comment by me (U4566)
posted on 17/2/12
If the OPs formation was to be used for the 'run in' then MUFC will have to settle for 2nd place. When push comes to shove, for a sustained and genuine defence of the hardest title in Europe to win, the best XI (injuries considered) needs to be used as often a possible.
In the absence of Valencia, Lindegaard and Vidic the title defence needs to be built around
De Gea (shame but there you go)
Smalling
Rio
Jones
Evra
Nani (better on the left but ho hum)
Carrick
Rooney
Anderson/Giggs
Young
Berbatov
Wellbeck, Cleverley, or the twins are not ready (nor likely to be ready) for a real, or influential, career at MUFC. I realise that a lot of younger MUFC fans eulogise about these players, but then they have no real long-term experience of following a club of MUFC's genuine stature and the high level demands that requires from it's players.
Lot of faith in Smalling, and Jones has been a genuine revelation (despite very occasionally demonstrating footwork akin to that of the lumpen-footed John Terry).
Ashley Young has shown both the good and bad aspects of his career so far, but deserves another season at least. But if he keeps simulating like he did yesterday then he should be sent out to AFC asap (where the fans are less critical of such behaviour from their players), and Hernandez is only really going to ever be effective as a sub.
Second place is no great shame (just a tad embarrassing) when the team that wins has players of the class throughout that MCFC have. MUFC can match them next season with the addition of a genuine striker, Lindegaard in the no1 jersey, a proper right back (i.e one that doesn't defend 'brazilian style' and maybe a destructive midfielder (unless Jones is going to do that job). Then we shall see. Not bad apart from the cup performances really - but then that is the nature of cup competitions.
At no point do I suggest that using Berbatov as a lone striker is a good idea. Just the best of a bad lot of options. That is why I have perpetually called for the addition of a genuine striker. Look again.
To suggest I did is a lie. Call it what you like, dishonest, misleading, disengenuous, a falsehood it amounts to much the same thing. A lie.
Secondly, I have never made predictions based around what WILL happen (which is, after all, what a prediction is), only what COULD happen if the situation is or isn't sorted.
And, to further compound your lie, you haven't even addressed the issue of the magnitude of margins you suggested I predicted. Or have you forgotten what the details of your lie were? Always a mistake.
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
That is what you wrote
Both were not lies as I have shown
comment by UnitedRedMacca- I taught Rooney and Berbatov t... (U2024) posted 3 days, 3 hours ago
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
That is what you wrote
Both were not lies as I have shown
--------------------------
Now you have added goobledegook to the recipe.
My request is reasonable. Stop mis-representing what I have written. Whether a deliberate lie or plain idiocy it helps nobody.
You have your views (as you are entitled to), and I have mine (which have turned out correct by the way). Do not pretend to (mis)represent my viewpoint again or you will be reported to the administrators. Is that clear?
Do what you like
I provided your post from a couple of months ago word for word so it is not misrepresenting you when people can clearly read it and make up their own minds
comment by UnitedRedMacca- I taught Rooney and Berbatov t... (U2024)
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
Do what you like
I provided your post from a couple of months ago word for word so it is not misrepresenting you when people can clearly read it and make up their own minds
-----------------------------------------------
You are still lying, and that can influence people's views. The more ovine type of people I'll admit, but people nonetheless. That doesn't bother me, but it, more importantly, doesn't help - as I've already mentioned.
You are clearly not prepared (or mature enough) to accept this, so I suggest you 'filter' me and I will 'filter' you. That way, at least, I don't have to read your lies and you will have nothing to lie about. Simple really.
Page 1 of 1
First
Previous
1
Next
Latest
Sign in if you want to comment
Phil Jones
Page 1 of 1
posted on 1/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/5/12
You only did this so I gave you the 5 stars I promised
Brilliant piece though and agree with every word
posted on 1/5/12
Hippo
FFS have a drink or something.
posted on 1/5/12
Iv never liked the 'where was blah blah when he was 20' or where was blah blah when he was this and that age' because players develop at different rates.
Just because Jones is at United at 20, does that make him better than Jones if he was still at Blackburn? Not really. Im just saying that Jones hasn't really shown enough in games to suggest he will be a world class CB. If he wasnt english and brave, they hype surrounding him wouldnt be there.
Having said that, I still believe he WILL become a very good CB, maybe not quite as good as the media are making out but no doubt a first team regular
posted on 1/5/12
Ha ha Macca. True but articles get pushed down pretty quickly and then nobody notices them so that's also why I did this.
posted on 1/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/5/12
I see where you're coming from Smalling Jones, but the fact is that Jones is 20 years old. And in my opinion he has shown enough for Blackburn, United in the first half of the season and for the England u21s last Summer that he has the abililty to go all the way.
People like Hippo are overreacting by saying he has absolutely no awareness or positioning. That's so over the top and just silly. I'll admit he's rash and he needs to learn, which I am sure he will.
posted on 1/5/12
I watched him and Smalling at the Euro U21 last summer and they were amazing. I think they kept 2 clean sheets out of 3 games and both looked like top top players both individually, and more promisinly, as a partnership.
However, since making the next step up to the Preimier League, he hasnt looked anywhere near as assured and comfortable. Hopefully that is down to him needing time to adjust to playing aainst men rather than boys.
posted on 1/5/12
posted on 1/5/12
Exactly, both of them were class last Summer. And in my opinion they both carried that form into the start of this season as well. People were raving about Jones for a reason. But yes, he was caught out and exposed at times. Probably a mixture of being at a new club (and a much bigger one at that) and from being played in different positions in which different things were asked of him.
Anybody would've struggled to maintain a high level of performance. And anyway, he actually played well last night!
posted on 1/5/12
I just dont see the logic in playin Jones over Rafael last night
Rafael wouldve offered far more going forward
Jones got a yellow and was rash at times, something Rafael is often critisized for
Jones was up against Nasri/SilvaAguero/Tevez so hegith was never an issure
I feel Fergie treats Rafael a bit unfairly. He has been amazing everytime he has played this season imo and one poor game shoudlnt warrant being dropped otherwise EVra would never play for us again
posted on 1/5/12
I agree with you completely. Rafael has been pretty good for United this season and one bad game shouldn't have seen him dropped. City play quite narrow so if we were going to get any joy it was likely to come from down the flanks. So you would imagine that playing a full back who can cross would have been a good idea.
However I think Fergie was worried Rafael might switch off so opted for Jones. Which i think is harsh on Rafael because there have been plenty of big games where he's put in a performance. I
posted on 1/5/12
The problem is complex and multi-faceted.
It stems from the issue that MUFC currently have no RB worthy of the name.
That said both Smalling, Jones and even Valencia, are better in that position than Raphael. Raphael is at best a back-up winger who may have to wait for some retirements or transfers from the club to claim that position. Defensively he is a liability. And that will come home to roost as they say.
Smalling is a good long-term prospect as CB and Jones may become so as well. It takes time to establish yourself as part of the main central defensive partnership of England's greatest ever club. He may do that or he may just become a very useful midfielder- nowher near Scholes or Keane perhaps - but I really think he has been the best of SAF's recent signings. He is the least of my worries about the current squad. In terms of importance I feel the main issues for SAF and MUFC to sort out swiftish are:
*The purchase of a proper RB.
*A more reliable EPL experienced GK - unless Lindegaard is given the chance.
*A genuine, EPL experienced, striker, i.e. one that knows where the net is, and does nothing else but score goals (Lineker, Greaves, Clough, RvN are fine examples).
That's all.
posted on 1/5/12
Have to disagree big time on your first two main issues, me. And I have problems with your last one too.
1) Rafael is actually quite good, he at least has done enough to merit a chance at claiming the spot as his own. With Jones and Smalling capable of playing that position then the purchase of a proper right back is definitely not a main issue.
With the decline of Evra and no left back alternatives then surely that side is a much more important issue?
2) De Gea is much better than Lindegaard. His form from the last few months has been near flawless and you want to replace him??? I can't figure that out
3)Who is this genuine, EPL experienced striker then? How much you think Fergie is willing to spend on him? What age would this proven striker be? It's not only the owners who don't want to spend big money on players over a certain age. Fergie doesn't either. His history in the transfer market proves that.
posted on 1/5/12
comment by Patriarch (U11015) posted 13 minutes ago
Have to disagree big time on your first two main issues, me. And I have problems with your last one too.
1) Rafael is actually quite good, he at least has done enough to merit a chance at claiming the spot as his own. With Jones and Smalling capable of playing that position then the purchase of a proper right back is definitely not a main issue.
With the decline of Evra and no left back alternatives then surely that side is a much more important issue?
2) De Gea is much better than Lindegaard. His form from the last few months has been near flawless and you want to replace him??? I can't figure that out
3)Who is this genuine, EPL experienced striker then? How much you think Fergie is willing to spend on him? What age would this proven striker be? It's not only the owners who don't want to spend big money on players over a certain age. Fergie doesn't either. His history in the transfer market proves that.
-------------------
He's ben pushing this agenda all season long claiming City will win the title by a mile
He suggested playing Berba as the lone frontman until we got a better striker
De Gea will be outstanding and he's already bloody good
I would ignore him. If he can't see the development of players like Danny and Rafael, he is beyond hope
posted on 1/5/12
jones needs a position first and foremost, and when we find him one he needs a consistent run playing in it.
posted on 2/5/12
comment by Patriarch (U11015) posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
Have to disagree big time on your first two main issues, me. And I have problems with your last one too.
1) Rafael is actually quite good, he at least has done enough to merit a chance at claiming the spot as his own. With Jones and Smalling capable of playing that position then the purchase of a proper right back is definitely not a main issue.
=================
It isn't just about disagreements. It's plain and simple Raphael just isn't good enough to claim the position for MUFC. AFC maybe but that's a different story.That doesn't really come into the equation. I think SAF is more than well aware of this, so I have no worries there. His brother has already being postioned out of the club. He won't be coming back.
posted on 2/5/12
comment by UnitedRedMacca- I taught Rooney and Berbatov t... (U2024)
-------------------
He's ben pushing this agenda all season long claiming City will win the title by a mile
He suggested playing Berba as the lone frontman until we got a better striker
De Gea will be outstanding and he's already bloody good
I would ignore him. If he can't see the development of players like Danny and Rafael, he is beyond hope
=========================
Don't really see why I should respond to claims that are such falsehoods, but here goes.
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
I have never questioned De Gea's shot stopping or ability to make astonishing saves. He will however make drop too many clangers (a la Barthez who was an unreliable joke) for him to be reliable enough for MUFC. I am a firm believe of reliability in GK's over camera saves. Think Hart, Given, Schmeichel, vdS.
Danny Welbeck may well make an average sub but, in the meantime MUFC do need a proper striker. Love the club but some times I despair about some of my younger colleagues rose-tinted glasses.
Oh, and by the way, don't lie about things I have written. It doesn't help anyone
posted on 3/5/12
Don't really see why I should respond to claims that are such falsehoods, but here goes.
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
---------------------------------------------------
This is what you wrote a couple of months ago and it wasn't the only time you suggested using Berba as the lone striker either or that City would win the league if we continued with Welbeck
You may retract accusing me of lieing now
See below
comment by me (U4566)
posted on 17/2/12
If the OPs formation was to be used for the 'run in' then MUFC will have to settle for 2nd place. When push comes to shove, for a sustained and genuine defence of the hardest title in Europe to win, the best XI (injuries considered) needs to be used as often a possible.
In the absence of Valencia, Lindegaard and Vidic the title defence needs to be built around
De Gea (shame but there you go)
Smalling
Rio
Jones
Evra
Nani (better on the left but ho hum)
Carrick
Rooney
Anderson/Giggs
Young
Berbatov
Wellbeck, Cleverley, or the twins are not ready (nor likely to be ready) for a real, or influential, career at MUFC. I realise that a lot of younger MUFC fans eulogise about these players, but then they have no real long-term experience of following a club of MUFC's genuine stature and the high level demands that requires from it's players.
Lot of faith in Smalling, and Jones has been a genuine revelation (despite very occasionally demonstrating footwork akin to that of the lumpen-footed John Terry).
Ashley Young has shown both the good and bad aspects of his career so far, but deserves another season at least. But if he keeps simulating like he did yesterday then he should be sent out to AFC asap (where the fans are less critical of such behaviour from their players), and Hernandez is only really going to ever be effective as a sub.
Second place is no great shame (just a tad embarrassing) when the team that wins has players of the class throughout that MCFC have. MUFC can match them next season with the addition of a genuine striker, Lindegaard in the no1 jersey, a proper right back (i.e one that doesn't defend 'brazilian style' and maybe a destructive midfielder (unless Jones is going to do that job). Then we shall see. Not bad apart from the cup performances really - but then that is the nature of cup competitions.
posted on 4/5/12
At no point do I suggest that using Berbatov as a lone striker is a good idea. Just the best of a bad lot of options. That is why I have perpetually called for the addition of a genuine striker. Look again.
To suggest I did is a lie. Call it what you like, dishonest, misleading, disengenuous, a falsehood it amounts to much the same thing. A lie.
Secondly, I have never made predictions based around what WILL happen (which is, after all, what a prediction is), only what COULD happen if the situation is or isn't sorted.
And, to further compound your lie, you haven't even addressed the issue of the magnitude of margins you suggested I predicted. Or have you forgotten what the details of your lie were? Always a mistake.
posted on 4/5/12
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
That is what you wrote
Both were not lies as I have shown
posted on 7/5/12
comment by UnitedRedMacca- I taught Rooney and Berbatov t... (U2024) posted 3 days, 3 hours ago
I have made no prediction about who will win the EPL at any stage. Lie one.
Never suggested Berbatov should be the main striker at any stage. Lie two.
That is what you wrote
Both were not lies as I have shown
--------------------------
Now you have added goobledegook to the recipe.
My request is reasonable. Stop mis-representing what I have written. Whether a deliberate lie or plain idiocy it helps nobody.
You have your views (as you are entitled to), and I have mine (which have turned out correct by the way). Do not pretend to (mis)represent my viewpoint again or you will be reported to the administrators. Is that clear?
posted on 8/5/12
Do what you like
I provided your post from a couple of months ago word for word so it is not misrepresenting you when people can clearly read it and make up their own minds
posted on 9/5/12
comment by UnitedRedMacca- I taught Rooney and Berbatov t... (U2024)
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
Do what you like
I provided your post from a couple of months ago word for word so it is not misrepresenting you when people can clearly read it and make up their own minds
-----------------------------------------------
You are still lying, and that can influence people's views. The more ovine type of people I'll admit, but people nonetheless. That doesn't bother me, but it, more importantly, doesn't help - as I've already mentioned.
You are clearly not prepared (or mature enough) to accept this, so I suggest you 'filter' me and I will 'filter' you. That way, at least, I don't have to read your lies and you will have nothing to lie about. Simple really.
Page 1 of 1