regardless of the results, i have a lot of respect for Owen Coyle, esp after the Muamba incident.
he held things together well, and represented the club well and it shows he cares about his players.
Believe it or not, I actually like the Coyle's give-it-a-go mentality in a way. But I also know it is also what has brought us to the brink.
I'm not for sacking him, but he really needs to sort out these failings rapidly. And they are nothing new, Burnly fans were asking the same questions even whilst he was there.
Good article, TRR. I know many will vehemently disagree, but I think you're spot on. No way was last night a 4-1 game. Also, people on other threads saying Ricketts is slow?! Come on. He was up against one of the fastest players in the league.
We had as many good chances as they did. They were just more clinical with theirs - after all, they have the better players. Tottenham's run had to end at some point - we were unfortunate that it was against us.
Anyway, in our heart of hearts, I know many of us thought a defeat was very possible in that game, in spite of Spurs' poor record at the Reebok. I knew I'd be disappointed if we lost and we'd probably need a tricky looking four points from our last two games. It so transpires that we do. Any points last night would have been a massive bonus.
Possible reasons to be positive about weekend: Hughes and Pulis have had recent spats - I'm sure Pulis would like to send Hughes down. Stoke are also used to a small pitch. West Brom not playing for their manager, as he's leaving.
"I feel sorry for our manager at times. Fans are very quick to jump on his back, but unfortunately aren't quick enough to applaud him when he does get things right".
It trasnpires today, that apparently, it was Coyls fault that we chased the game while we were in the ascendancy are likely to score another. It is Coyles fault that we were disorganised at the back. It is Coyles fault that we lost 4-1. Before I go further, 4-1 was a very harsh scoreline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you saying then, that it's all down to Coyle when we play well, yet down to the players when we don't?
And 4-1 was in now way harsh. If Adebayor hadn't been all about getting his hat-trick they could've had one or two more.
It was the same as the Newcastle and Everton home games (and probably others I can't bring to mind). Go gung-ho, concede 2 quick goals and goodnight Vienna.
Are you saying then, that it's all down to Coyle when we play well, yet down to the players when we don't?
-----------
Not at all.
I have said twice in the article that Coyle has made mistakes, which we all know, but he has also made good calls which people ignore.
Basically, what I am saying is, in short, that some of our fans are fickle...
...and the fickleness is really starting to show now.
What TRR is trying to say I that everyone blames Coyle when we lose, but says nothing when we win and give no credit.
You can't have it both ways. That's something I've found fraustrating during the season aswell.
What TRR is trying to say I that everyone blames Coyle when we lose, but says nothing when we win and give no credit.
---------
Yeah.
Coyle's win or bust mentality worked in parts last season.
I heard him interviewed on a few occasions where we'd been behind and he'd shoved on an extra attacker and we'd got something. This season it's not worked.
As for our fans - well we've always taken defeat like a spoilt child not getting his toy.
What TRR is trying to say I that everyone blames Coyle when we lose, but says nothing when we win and give no credit.
---------
Yeah.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
Bloody hell, no-ones saying that.
All that's being said is that criticism and praise has not been used fairly this season. Criticism is fine when it's deserved. Praise is fine when it's deserved.
But fans have neglected to give credit where credits due this season. That's obvious in the fact that this board is full when we lose and empty when we win.
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
-----------
Where have I stated that we should blame the players? I am sorry that it might come across like that, but I am not suggesting that the players are at fault for yesterdays game or Coyle. It's Tottenhams players fault because they are better than us. That's it.
There doesn't have to be any blame. That's what I am saying.
I am frustrated that Coyle is getting blamed for 'going for it', when it was the perfect time to go for it, as we were in the ascendancy and looked likely to score another goal.
To blame Coyle for that just seems a cheap shot.
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell, no-ones saying that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It trasnpires today, that apparently, it was Coyls fault that we chased the game while we were in the ascendancy are likely to score another. It is Coyles fault that we were disorganised at the back. It is Coyles fault that we lost 4-1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who isn't saying that?
So what would've happened if we'd taken N'gog off and put another midfielder on - dropped deep and played for the point? We'd have still probably conceded 4 but isn't that worse? We berated Megson for doing that.
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell, no-ones saying that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It trasnpires today, that apparently, it was Coyls fault that we chased the game while we were in the ascendancy are likely to score another. It is Coyles fault that we were disorganised at the back. It is Coyles fault that we lost 4-1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who isn't saying that?
----------
I think I get it now. You haven't detected the rhetorical questions?
They are sarcastic, mate. Maybe I should've put 'Is it', rather than 'it is'.
So what would've happened if we'd taken N'gog off and put another midfielder on - dropped deep and played for the point? We'd have still probably conceded 4 but isn't that worse? We berated Megson for doing that.
-------------
PRECISELY!
Bravo!
So what would've happened if we'd taken N'gog off and put another midfielder on - dropped deep and played for the point? We'd have still probably conceded 4 but isn't that worse? We berated Megson for doing that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes we did, because it wasn't disloyal bordering on blasphemy to question Megson!
Allardyce's style of play and results - down to Allardyce.
Lee's style of play and results - down to Lee.
Megson's style of play and results - down to Megson.
Coyle's style of play and results - down to...?
Allardyce's style of play and results - down to Allardyce.
Lee's style of play and results - down to Lee.
Megson's style of play and results - down to Megson.
Coyle's style of play and results - down to...?
---------
I think you are missing the point really.
In reference to last nights game, there was a period of 15 minutes when we had Spurs rattled and the fans, that's us, were loud and proud, urging a second goal and really giving the players some belief that we could get it.
The players, the fans and the manager obviously felt it was the best decision to go for it - and who can blame them? We were in the ascendency and looked likely.
I bet that fans on here said that we needed a win before the game last night and are now on here saying that Coyle should've played more defensively after it got to 1-1. I just bet that's the case.
It's fickle and annoying.
I think I get it now. You haven't detected the rhetorical questions?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No I didn't. Mainly because as you pointed out they were statements not questions. And, because the rest of the post seemed pretty earnest, with no sarcastic tone. I took them more as your take on what other people were seeing as the reasons for last night's defeat - which you didn't agree with.
And that is how I still see them.
I think I'm bang on the point actually. The three previous managers have been lauded or slated due to the style of play and results. Yet, by some, Coyle isn't being judged in the same way.
WATOAOW (U11675)
I am not arguing here. I can see where you went wrong and it is partly my mistake for my poor grammar/not a very good explanation. I have already had arguments with posters on here about similar things that have lasted hundreds of comments. I'll just apologise for my part now and we can carry on debating.
It is all cleared up now anyway isn't it? They were genuinely supposed to be sarcastic. The rest of the post is earnest, just those statements were sarcastic.
Let's move on and keep debating.
I think I'm bang on the point actually. The three previous managers have been lauded or slated due to the style of play and results. Yet, by some, Coyle isn't being judged in the same way.
--------
I judge Coyle in exactly the same way as I judge other managers. Incidentally, that might not be the same way as you.
Again, in reference to last nights game - which is all this article is about - I think it is unfair to suggest that Coyle was wrong to go for it, after we had scored and still looked likely to score another.
And, like I said, some fans said before the game that we needed a win and I bet they are not saying that we should've played for a draw after we got it to 1-1.
That is all this article has ever been about. Not past managers, not past results. Just last night.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Fine by me.
Who do you blame for this season then?
For me, the players have to take a portion of the blame.
They're the ones out on the pitch after all.
However, the buck stops with the manager, he's the one that has them in training all week, he's the one that sets out the gameplan for every match and picks the 11 to start. That's the way it is in football and always will be.
With Megson I was angry from the start and never wanted him. With Coyle, it's more disappointment. I was happy with him getting the job like I think most people were. But, after a promising start, when he was rightly given a lot of credit, it's threatening to end in disaster.
Sign in if you want to comment
Can't do right for doing wrong.
Page 1 of 3
posted on 3/5/12
regardless of the results, i have a lot of respect for Owen Coyle, esp after the Muamba incident.
he held things together well, and represented the club well and it shows he cares about his players.
posted on 3/5/12
Believe it or not, I actually like the Coyle's give-it-a-go mentality in a way. But I also know it is also what has brought us to the brink.
I'm not for sacking him, but he really needs to sort out these failings rapidly. And they are nothing new, Burnly fans were asking the same questions even whilst he was there.
posted on 3/5/12
Good article, TRR. I know many will vehemently disagree, but I think you're spot on. No way was last night a 4-1 game. Also, people on other threads saying Ricketts is slow?! Come on. He was up against one of the fastest players in the league.
We had as many good chances as they did. They were just more clinical with theirs - after all, they have the better players. Tottenham's run had to end at some point - we were unfortunate that it was against us.
Anyway, in our heart of hearts, I know many of us thought a defeat was very possible in that game, in spite of Spurs' poor record at the Reebok. I knew I'd be disappointed if we lost and we'd probably need a tricky looking four points from our last two games. It so transpires that we do. Any points last night would have been a massive bonus.
Possible reasons to be positive about weekend: Hughes and Pulis have had recent spats - I'm sure Pulis would like to send Hughes down. Stoke are also used to a small pitch. West Brom not playing for their manager, as he's leaving.
posted on 3/5/12
"I feel sorry for our manager at times. Fans are very quick to jump on his back, but unfortunately aren't quick enough to applaud him when he does get things right".
It trasnpires today, that apparently, it was Coyls fault that we chased the game while we were in the ascendancy are likely to score another. It is Coyles fault that we were disorganised at the back. It is Coyles fault that we lost 4-1. Before I go further, 4-1 was a very harsh scoreline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you saying then, that it's all down to Coyle when we play well, yet down to the players when we don't?
And 4-1 was in now way harsh. If Adebayor hadn't been all about getting his hat-trick they could've had one or two more.
It was the same as the Newcastle and Everton home games (and probably others I can't bring to mind). Go gung-ho, concede 2 quick goals and goodnight Vienna.
posted on 3/5/12
Are you saying then, that it's all down to Coyle when we play well, yet down to the players when we don't?
-----------
Not at all.
I have said twice in the article that Coyle has made mistakes, which we all know, but he has also made good calls which people ignore.
Basically, what I am saying is, in short, that some of our fans are fickle...
...and the fickleness is really starting to show now.
posted on 3/5/12
What TRR is trying to say I that everyone blames Coyle when we lose, but says nothing when we win and give no credit.
You can't have it both ways. That's something I've found fraustrating during the season aswell.
posted on 3/5/12
What TRR is trying to say I that everyone blames Coyle when we lose, but says nothing when we win and give no credit.
---------
Yeah.
posted on 3/5/12
Coyle's win or bust mentality worked in parts last season.
I heard him interviewed on a few occasions where we'd been behind and he'd shoved on an extra attacker and we'd got something. This season it's not worked.
As for our fans - well we've always taken defeat like a spoilt child not getting his toy.
posted on 3/5/12
What TRR is trying to say I that everyone blames Coyle when we lose, but says nothing when we win and give no credit.
---------
Yeah.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
posted on 3/5/12
Bloody hell, no-ones saying that.
All that's being said is that criticism and praise has not been used fairly this season. Criticism is fine when it's deserved. Praise is fine when it's deserved.
But fans have neglected to give credit where credits due this season. That's obvious in the fact that this board is full when we lose and empty when we win.
posted on 3/5/12
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
-----------
Where have I stated that we should blame the players? I am sorry that it might come across like that, but I am not suggesting that the players are at fault for yesterdays game or Coyle. It's Tottenhams players fault because they are better than us. That's it.
There doesn't have to be any blame. That's what I am saying.
I am frustrated that Coyle is getting blamed for 'going for it', when it was the perfect time to go for it, as we were in the ascendancy and looked likely to score another goal.
To blame Coyle for that just seems a cheap shot.
posted on 3/5/12
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell, no-ones saying that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It trasnpires today, that apparently, it was Coyls fault that we chased the game while we were in the ascendancy are likely to score another. It is Coyles fault that we were disorganised at the back. It is Coyles fault that we lost 4-1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who isn't saying that?
posted on 3/5/12
So what would've happened if we'd taken N'gog off and put another midfielder on - dropped deep and played for the point? We'd have still probably conceded 4 but isn't that worse? We berated Megson for doing that.
posted on 3/5/12
So, we should blame the players and absolve the manager of responsibility when we lose? Which is what you, TRR, have essentially done in the second of your paragraphs I quoted above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell, no-ones saying that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It trasnpires today, that apparently, it was Coyls fault that we chased the game while we were in the ascendancy are likely to score another. It is Coyles fault that we were disorganised at the back. It is Coyles fault that we lost 4-1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who isn't saying that?
----------
I think I get it now. You haven't detected the rhetorical questions?
They are sarcastic, mate. Maybe I should've put 'Is it', rather than 'it is'.
posted on 3/5/12
So what would've happened if we'd taken N'gog off and put another midfielder on - dropped deep and played for the point? We'd have still probably conceded 4 but isn't that worse? We berated Megson for doing that.
-------------
PRECISELY!
Bravo!
posted on 3/5/12
So what would've happened if we'd taken N'gog off and put another midfielder on - dropped deep and played for the point? We'd have still probably conceded 4 but isn't that worse? We berated Megson for doing that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes we did, because it wasn't disloyal bordering on blasphemy to question Megson!
Allardyce's style of play and results - down to Allardyce.
Lee's style of play and results - down to Lee.
Megson's style of play and results - down to Megson.
Coyle's style of play and results - down to...?
posted on 3/5/12
Allardyce's style of play and results - down to Allardyce.
Lee's style of play and results - down to Lee.
Megson's style of play and results - down to Megson.
Coyle's style of play and results - down to...?
---------
I think you are missing the point really.
In reference to last nights game, there was a period of 15 minutes when we had Spurs rattled and the fans, that's us, were loud and proud, urging a second goal and really giving the players some belief that we could get it.
The players, the fans and the manager obviously felt it was the best decision to go for it - and who can blame them? We were in the ascendency and looked likely.
I bet that fans on here said that we needed a win before the game last night and are now on here saying that Coyle should've played more defensively after it got to 1-1. I just bet that's the case.
It's fickle and annoying.
posted on 3/5/12
*some fans
posted on 3/5/12
I think I get it now. You haven't detected the rhetorical questions?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No I didn't. Mainly because as you pointed out they were statements not questions. And, because the rest of the post seemed pretty earnest, with no sarcastic tone. I took them more as your take on what other people were seeing as the reasons for last night's defeat - which you didn't agree with.
And that is how I still see them.
posted on 3/5/12
I think I'm bang on the point actually. The three previous managers have been lauded or slated due to the style of play and results. Yet, by some, Coyle isn't being judged in the same way.
posted on 3/5/12
WATOAOW (U11675)
I am not arguing here. I can see where you went wrong and it is partly my mistake for my poor grammar/not a very good explanation. I have already had arguments with posters on here about similar things that have lasted hundreds of comments. I'll just apologise for my part now and we can carry on debating.
It is all cleared up now anyway isn't it? They were genuinely supposed to be sarcastic. The rest of the post is earnest, just those statements were sarcastic.
Let's move on and keep debating.
posted on 3/5/12
I think I'm bang on the point actually. The three previous managers have been lauded or slated due to the style of play and results. Yet, by some, Coyle isn't being judged in the same way.
--------
I judge Coyle in exactly the same way as I judge other managers. Incidentally, that might not be the same way as you.
Again, in reference to last nights game - which is all this article is about - I think it is unfair to suggest that Coyle was wrong to go for it, after we had scored and still looked likely to score another.
And, like I said, some fans said before the game that we needed a win and I bet they are not saying that we should've played for a draw after we got it to 1-1.
That is all this article has ever been about. Not past managers, not past results. Just last night.
posted on 3/5/12
*now
posted on 3/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 3/5/12
Fine by me.
Who do you blame for this season then?
For me, the players have to take a portion of the blame.
They're the ones out on the pitch after all.
However, the buck stops with the manager, he's the one that has them in training all week, he's the one that sets out the gameplan for every match and picks the 11 to start. That's the way it is in football and always will be.
With Megson I was angry from the start and never wanted him. With Coyle, it's more disappointment. I was happy with him getting the job like I think most people were. But, after a promising start, when he was rightly given a lot of credit, it's threatening to end in disaster.
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