*cough* Championship board *cough*

Apologies, Didi; now edited.

Still, hope it stirred memories of your last win at wembley all those years ago - maybe it'll inspire you to dig out your DVD - sorry, VHS- of the 2006 FA cup win.

I prefer to go back to 2001 and watch the League Cup Final

Ouch! You were lucky though Didi; I really thought we were going to do it during the first half of extra time.

Anyway, it's no European cup, but its the only one we've won and I loved that day; really loved it.

Your lot made a good fist of it, was more than a bit relieved that Henchoz got away with that foul.

He was bonkers at the back, should've cost us the F.A. Cup as well, but he had a hell of a lucky streak.

Enjoy your success, I was certainly glad you won, even if it did cause the capitulation of Arsenal, handing Utd the title and costing us a place in Europe

I was certainly glad you won, even if it did cause the capitulation of Arsena

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Can you please, for me, say that once more, its sounds so beautiful

It was a good day and a good Cup run.

And thats what fustrates me the most about McLeish.

In the Cup he went for it, he never settled out to NOT LOSE, its in the cup he would try other things than just the usual 4,5,1 with Jerome and his usual 9 other players.

Its in the cup we would not only use our subs but bring them on after 60-70 mins and not just bring on 1-2 tops after 85 mins.

If we had played our last 6 games, with the same changes, same no fear, same go out to win mentality as we did for our last 4 cup games then i think we would have stayed up.

The KiD

Banjokid,
You are correct regarding tactics.
The biggest change to get results was Jerome hardly played in the cup run!
That is why we won the cup, unfortunately in the league
Jerome played 25 games since november and did not score one goal!
That is why we went down.
Agreed Mcleish picked him each week so he has to take the blame, that is what annoyed me most about Mcleish he kept putting him in the side week in week out.

The DVD is brilliant as it has all the early rounds as well, so you can also re-live the villa and west ham games. Pure Class!

Well McLeish's side always read (baring injuries, suspentions).

Foster, Carr, Johnson, Dann, Ridgewell
Larsson, Gardner, Ferguson, Bowyer
Jerome

Thats 10 players who played like 75% of the Prem games, well i mean that thats the side thats put out 3/4 times.

That meant only one position was up for grabs, now if that was a Striker it meant that Bowyer was played LM. If that meant a player off a Striker then either Bowyer was played LM or Gardner moved to the CAM and someone else played LM (Fahey). And finally if we stuck with a 5 man midfield again that position was LM.

So with only one place usual either as 2nd ST, CAM/CF or LM it meant that that one place was rotated and shared by the rest of the players not named in that 10 men sqaud. And things was never changed untill late on and then sometimes we saw only a Fahey on for a Hleb/Beausejour or vice versa. Even some games Murphy was brought on at LM for Fahey for the last 5 mins or so.

Again no positive changes, and often when they are too late in the game.

McLeish was far to cautious in the Prem he feared lossing games, and thus did everything to reduce the chances of conceeding goals.

In the Cup McLeish had no fear because if we got knocked out it did not matter as our main goal was PREM SURVIVAL.

So we kind of went at games as a nothing to lose mentality and he would risk more positive and early changes, he would give other players not named in that 10 players above chances, would play or change to 4,4,2 more often.

Its shame we never took that gamble more in the Prem.

When we did try for a few games due to injuries/suspentions it seems those players who never got many chances and must have been unhappy was just not willing to give 100% for the very few chances they got during out last run of games.

Those players knew they are not in the Managers plans and the next seasons would not be staying. And also must have thought even if they gave 100% they would be dropped again once all of the 10 main players used by McLeish was availible for selection.

McLeish kept a tight ship with his favorite 10 players that sadly meant that the out field players who never got games was not happy and thus not 100% commited and so once called in to fill in gaps due to injuries/bans these players never had the fight in them.

The KiD

I thank McLeish for getting us to 9th and the Cup

But i am also fustrated because i saw the reasons for both of those, and that the other times when we played his 4,5,1 with the 10 players above the results was not comming due to our lack of attacking threat.

Shame really....

If McLeish had stayed and had a crack at the Prem and Gardner then they could have gone down as real heros.

Maybe McLeish and some players did sence that something is not right as far as how the club is/will be run and had concerns over Yeungs ownership.

No proof for that being a reason McLeish may have left.

But looking at the situation we have now, seems we should worry about Yeungs ability to run and keep this club stable.

But we should cherish the memories as that Cup Win capped off a overall good last 10 years for our club, lets hope the next 10 can be as good or better.

Sadly we cant garuntee that

KRO

The KiD

If McLeish had stayed and had a crack at the Prem

I mean had a crack at getting us promoted to the Prem

The KiD

No Blueboy. We did not go down because of Jerome not scoring. We went down because Alex would not budge an inch from our league line up.
Jerome as a lone striker. Never in a million. Alex tried to play the 0 0
game and nick a goal. The tactics were all wrong. They worked in the first season when we finished 9th but as the defence was changed due to injury we let silly goals in. Because of our negative set up we were always chasing the game from the first kick.
With a playmaker next to him he scored goals. Even against Bolton in the FA Cup. Look at the line up that day. I know we lost but its the attack mindedness that matters.
Foster
Murphy
Parnaby
Jiranec
Davies
Larsson
Ferguson
Beausejeour
Mutch
Phillips
Jerome.

"They worked in the first season when we finished 9th but as the defence was changed due to injury we let silly goals in"

My friend they did not work

If you take away the games when we played 4,4,2 Chucho and Jerome (1.8pts game) and looked at the games we played 4,5,1 with Jerome on his own, we got only 0.6pts per game.

After we dropped Chucho and played 4,5,1 our form was relegation form

Injuries did have a effect but Jiranek did ok, it was when Jiranek was also injuried that our defence crumbled Johnson looked like the season of knocks he took had caught up with him, even when Jiranek was fit again he never looked at 100%

We had a calamity with Ridgewell playing CB, and Davies (apart from last game where he was decent). And when we played Parnaby RB, LB and CB due to injuries and suspentions our defence was not solid.

But that still never changed why we had the worse goals tally, least number of corners/freekicks in final 3rd etc etc.

The KiD

I had not finished when that posted itself. As I was saying.
A much more aittack minded line up. Next game Wigan away Phillips is dropped and Gardner makes up a midfield 5. Jerome up front on his own again. Hardly rocket science that Jerome was chasing lost causes as we dropped deeper and deeper and the midfield became more stretched because the wingers were covering the full backs. We eventually lost to bad management and a dolop of bad luck.

Banjokid I was referring to the clean sheet tally. Not the tactics. My fault for the sentence not relaying what I meant.
"They worked in the first season when we finished 9th but as the defence was changed due to injury we let silly goals in"
Silly me.

I can think of two league games last season where McLeish seemed to let the reins off a bit - Blackpool home and away. Two wins and two brilliant matches. Shame he take any hints from those performances.

I understand that yes defence was weaker this season, especially after the League Cup Final it was not good not compared to the season before.

I still think that the 4,5,1 with Jerome was a cause of concern for us, we played 4,4,2 we did average double the points we get when we dont play 4,4,2

Oh well thats the past now, its a new future but maybe a worrying one, because apparently we dont have no cash flow/ready cash!

Yes we can cover weekly payments like wages, but we dont have money to bring anyone in. thats what someone i spoke to reconed.

Maybe makes sence now, as we are again only going for players with no fees.

CH may have 4-5 targets he wants but untill we sell players we will not be able to get anything more than frees.

Just as some one told me and that many on here like Taity and JK worried about.

So i think the Parachutes + Gardner cash will be used to cover the wages of players, and wages of new players.

Untill the season starts when gates/season tickets will also start to be used.

Looks like if we want to actually sign many more players we need to offload to free wage bill up and if any are not frees then again untill we sell we cant buy.

So this could be a slow process.

Hopefully if the Dann and Jerome deals go through and we get £10M+ cash (i know deal is £16M) lets hope that 25% at least of that can be uses to bring in players.

As some players CH could had been after look likely to be on the move. Before he has even had any chance to have cash to bid on them.

The KiD

Routledge and Best could be going, Forest, and Leicester could be after Routledge.

Best as part of a swap deal for Long at Reading.

What gets me is it says Best is £4M part EX so that makes Longs valuation at £9-11M mark?

Reading Value him at £10M which is really high, seems to me another player who like Bothroyd had a one off good season last year.

Anyway i thought Best would cost £1.5-2M if Newcastle value him at £4M, then what are they gonna want for Guthrie £5M

I did think that Guthrie, Best and Routledge could cost about £6M oh well.... we ant got money to spend yet anyway.

Looks like a top 4 this season will be a bigger ask than surviving the Prem was last season.

The KiD

Well, if we stop being a charity org. and sell off the ones we cant afford to keep at going rate prices... Gardener for example... then maybe we will have a few quid to spend...

I mean Gardner was an example of where we got screwed... sold him at half price...

Xpat thats ok saying it, but a lot will depend on how willing Yeung is to invest out of his pockets or from his investors.

You see the club have £40M less to live off this season, so we need to make cuts.

But we need to keep some of our players and we need to spend some cash. not millions and millions just some.

If we sell more than our share of players and do not spend then chances of promotion look bleak.

But then financially we may not be in trouble.

Its can/will Yeung risk some financial losses to push for Promotion or sell as much as he can so as that the wage bill is low, and cash raised covers the black hole in finances.

That leaves us in the same boat as most midtable Championship Clubs.

The KiD

sold him at half price...

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Gardner might have been good, but he wasn't worth £12million.

I would have been happy with £8mill, the extra £2mill as compensation for his 'commitment' to the team he 'supports'

I think i could build a side thats not going to cost the earth, with money made/wages saved. And still pay off a lot of debt.

It will require some of the cash saved however.

If we keep Foster, Ridgewell, Davies, Murphy, Beausejour and Fahey, oh and Carr plus Ferguson.

If we see Dann, Johnson, Jerome, Zigic, Michel go and make £30-33M i think £5-6M of that spent could get us a decent 3 players add to some frees.

Guthrie, Best and Routledge from Newcastle for say £4M that can rise to £7M based on promotion and performances.

Kamara Free, Smith Free (depends on wages).

Added to what we have now (with changes to players above gives).

GK Foster/Doyle/Butland
RB Carr/Ozturk
CB Davies/Ridgewell/Caldwell/Kerr/Hubbins
LB Murphy
RM Burke/Routledge/Redmond
CM Ferguson/Guthrie/Gomis/Fahey/Mutch
LM Beausejour/Valles
CF/CAM Smith
ST King/Rooney/Kamara/Jervis/Asante

Thats 27 man sqaud that would cost in fees £6M (maybe less if based on lower fee and addons).

Yes there is no saying we would sign these and no way we would know if the wages would fit in with what we would want to pay.

But its not a totally unrealistic side.

The overall quality is what we need to aim at, so if we get all frees and if we sell all players (not inc Keepers) but provided the outfield side we have is at same quality as that side above we have a chance of promotion.

All that would be needed i recon would be a LB and a CB ontop of those 27 players (inc 8 Youth players).

The KiD

I think Gardner was a £5-6M who had a good season, so based on goals could say worth £8M, if Gardner can replicate the season he had last again and again yes he would be worth £8-10M+

I think £6M was a fair price, he may be worth more than that to us though, and so the £4.5M+ addons was a less than i expected.

If we are prepared to sell Gardner for £4.5M+ addons then surely £3M+ addons is enough for Jerome and £8M plus addons enough for Dann.

The KiD