much as i love king kenny, the short period he had managing and as director of football over john barnes ws an unmitigated disaster.
he will always be my hero along with henrik larsson but i have my doubts.
genuinely hope i'm wrong
How many players in want to stand up and be counted/make score goals in our team these days?
I count
Suarez, Carroll, Skrtel, Bellamy (cant always play) and Sterling (being painfully slowly introduced)
with Maxi and Kuyt threatening on occasion??
Who else??
Hendo - played our of position and looks lost on the flanks (had a good game at CM against Chelsea)
Downing - played out of position a lot, but hasnt made a huge impact
Adam - started off good, but struggled and got injured.
Its obvious with those stats something is seriously wrong!
2/3 more players in key positions and we'll be fine.
KK is the man.
Just need to get rid of deadwood.
Oh aye and Shelvey isn't our Saviour.
Reina
Johnson
Skrtle
Agger
Enrique
Adam Johnson
Gerrard
Lucas / Aqualani (either him or someone as creative)
Moses
Suarez
Dzecko
I'd also go for Dembele (Gerrard's Succsessor ?)
Dirk "my second touch is a tackle" Kuyt,
Maxi,
Aurelio,
J Cole
and
Adam
can all be sold.
Dr Seven, IMO you post is probably the most incisive, accurate analysis of our season, team and, especially manager that I will read. You cannot be challenged on any aspect which you raise. To see our club end the season 37 points behind the winners, their GD 64; ours 7 says it all.
I am coming to the conclusion that this simply cannot go on. Change the manager/team? I really don't know. I haven't seen the game yet but apparently, Swans played us off the park. Yes, the mighty Swansea. I for one would not be surprised if John W H wields the axe. We don't seem to be going anywhere. We wallop Chelsea off the park on Tuesday; yesterday we succumb. Again. Rodgers for Anfield? He couldn't do any worse. JimmyTheRed
Spot on OP, we've had an urgency problem for a long time, when we do break the lack of bodies making an effort to get in to the box is terrifying, and we end up eith trying to find our one striker amongst 3 defenders or wait and end up having 3 against 8.
Gerrard hasn't got the legs to go box to box any more and we really need someone to take a bit of responsibility in the middle of the park (still unsure why we got rid of Aquilani AND Meireles ).
This was always one of the main complaints I levelled at Lucas in the dark days, he would always look for the easy pass rather than take a bit of responsibility and try and make things happen like a centre mid should do, but he's a lot better now. Unfortunately we've had Spearing in for most of the year and he is basically Lucas before he turned good.
Shelvey looks like he has the ability and occasionally so does Henderson but they suffer from a lack of confidence and consistency. Unless the players we buy this year are absolutely spot on, a la Newcastle, we can kiss 4th spot goodbye for the next few years.
Good article and one I agree with. I can understand when people make mistakes, it happens, mistakes happen. The thing that gets me though is when mistakes are repeated over and over again. When this happens, change needs to be made, change hasn't come from the manager and therefore the manager needs to be changed.
Kenny seems to have a few blind spots
Jay has to go surely, not even good enough for the reserves
Aquillani - considering we brought Adam who unfortunately is a poor decision maker (particularly in the last 3rd) I really don't know why we haven't at least given him a chance. When I've seen him he looks forward and can play a pass / be creative and score a few goals
Kenny needs to understand as well that to get the best out of Stevie he needs a solid platform behind him and play him higher up the pitch. Lucas will come back but I think we still need a really good DM player then have the option to play Stevie or even Aqua in an attacking role
Adam & Henderson are squad players...with Shelvey still in development
Downing can't continue to aim balls aimlessly into the middle can he? As a seasoned professional I'm surprised by such a lack of real end product. He seems to rarely get his head up and deliver a proper ball
Jose - what's happened? Gone from looking solid to shaky and poorly positioned. Needs some work over the summer and reminding that he is a defender first & foremost....
Pushing Stevie further forward and not thinking he is still capable of been a box to box CM would enable him to link with Luis & feed Carroll. We still need one more up there though as Bellamy again is only really an impact player now
comment by absolutetruth11 (U9573)
posted 26 minutes ago
Kenny seems to have a few blind spots
Jay has to go surely, not even good enough for the reserves
----------------------------------------
Spearing was a long time stand out performer in the reserves. However he hasn't been good enough and if we can replace him, then we should.
"Aquillani - considering we brought Adam who unfortunately is a poor decision maker (particularly in the last 3rd) I really don't know why we haven't at least given him a chance. When I've seen him he looks forward and can play a pass / be creative and score a few goals"
Aquilani wanted to leave, so he did. His agent was banding him around Italy for months.
"Downing can't continue to aim balls aimlessly into the middle can he? As a seasoned professional I'm surprised by such a lack of real end product. He seems to rarely get his head up and deliver a proper ball"
His two choices this season have been, take on the man, get to the line, cross the ball into an empty box
or
Receive the ball, see there's nobody in the box, no point taking the man on, pass it to the full back.
This is the result of Kenny's Suarez lone striker nobody in the box no goals system. When Carroll and Downing play together, which is few, Downing plays on the right.
"Jose - what's happened? Gone from looking solid to shaky and poorly positioned. Needs some work over the summer and reminding that he is a defender first & foremost...."
Similar to Downing, often gets to the line with nobody in the box, he gets nervous, makes mistakes, then this affects his defensive game also.
Players are low in confidence due to our miserable league campaign and as such some look like they're not good enough, however they are good enough and played in the right system, they're gain confidence and prove that.
There's no dead-wood in the squad to sell...apart from maybe Aurelio, Cole & Aquilani.
Everyone esle can be useful if Kenny learns how to utilise his squad and stop persisting with his new ones.
Kuyt & Maxi should only be sold if there replacements lined-up.
We need to build a squad not keep dismantling it and buying stop gaps.
Nice One Seven 5 stars.
I heard on the radio on my way to work that the odds are in for next season. Liverpool are 50-1. Now I know there's no chance of us winning it but these have to be the longest odds for a Liverpool side in living memory. Also, a lot of money has been put on Martinez becoming the next manager, so read what you want into that.
comment by bixentelizarazu (U10767)
posted 1 minute ago
Nice One Seven 5 stars.
I heard on the radio on my way to work that the odds are in for next season. Liverpool are 50-1. Now I know there's no chance of us winning it but these have to be the longest odds for a Liverpool side in living memory. Also, a lot of money has been put on Martinez becoming the next manager, so read what you want into that.
-----------------------------------------------
I wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez. However he's still fairly new and inexperienced, especially managing a top club.
There's no dead-wood in the squad to sell...apart from maybe Aurelio, Cole & Aquilani.
---------------------------------------
You can't sell Aurelio as he's out of contract, that's what made it extremely baffling when he played against Fulham. There was no point in playing a man who had been out most of the season when you had a young lad in Robbinson on the bench, looking for the game time.
Kennys great and knows what he's doing though!
Auqalani and cole will bing in a combined fee of about £3.50. Kuyt will go for 1 million if he moves to a club abroad and Maxi has 1 year left and is 32? Will get released rather than sold!
Cole will fetch around £4m. Aquilani around £6m.
TOOR.
You 'wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez'!
Wigan's league finishes under him have been 16th, 16th, 15th.
If that's what marks him out in fans' eyes as a potential LFC manager then we really are in trouble.
No need to be pedantic on a Monday morning KLS.
You know what i meant
Who off Toor?
Milan have bum poked us over Aqua and have deliberately not played him as to avoid a permenant move and whilst his contract dwindles away his value dwindles with it!
Coles wages would scare off anyone! If we get £10m for them, I'll swallow my own man juice!
QPR and Spurs might...even Westham if they get promoted
comment by shortlight (U13938)
posted 8 minutes ago
TOOR.
You 'wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez'!
Wigan's league finishes under him have been 16th, 16th, 15th.
If that's what marks him out in fans' eyes as a potential LFC manager then we really are in trouble.
------------------------------------------------
Well that's not too good is it? How about a manager who spends £100m and finishes eighth? Would Martinez have those positions in he had £100m to spend. Time to wake up, Kenny has failed massively and he hasn't seen the mistakes he's made, that's obvious, with no signs he tried to change it.
comment by King Luis Suarez - I might be fick but I can s... (U1695)
posted 10 minutes ago
Who off Toor?
Milan have bum poked us over Aqua and have deliberately not played him as to avoid a permenant move and whilst his contract dwindles away his value dwindles with it!
Coles wages would scare off anyone! If we get £10m for them, I'll swallow my own man juice!
----------------------------------------
Aquilani will not go anywhere for less the £6m. There will be a host of clubs lining up to take him at that price. Regardless, if it's less, he should be forced to stay.
Cole will easily fetch £4m. He seems to be enjoying it in France and the fans of Lille are happy with his performances.
You're just the master pessimist aren't you?
You 'wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez'!
Wigan's league finishes under him have been 16th, 16th, 15th.
If that's what marks him out in fans' eyes as a potential LFC manager then we really are in trouble.
For Martinez to even keep Wigan in the PL with a tiny budget, small crowds, constantly loosing their better players is a huge feat when much bigger clubs like Birmingham, Newcastle and West Ham have gone down.
If we were to go for a young manager from the PL he's the stand out candidate for me, he was instrumental in Swansea's rise through the football league and started the whole philosophy Rodgers is getting so much (deserved) praise for.
TOOR.
How about a manager who takes over a club four points off relegation zone and gets them to 8th in eighteen months. And gets them to two cup finals at the same time?
How about a manager who inherited a team filled with the likes of Konchesky, Poulsen, Ngog, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos and has managed to get rid of them all?
Maybe you're right. Let's sack him and bring in a manager who's only achievement is not getting relegated!
btw - The net spend under Dalglish is £23mill.
If I didn't know you better, Toor, I'd say you were regurgitating opinions from the Murdoch press.
Martinez is a very respected coach in Spain.
However, he's not ready for LFC yet
Thats a great point shortlight; nice to see some fans have a sense of perspective
omment by shortlight (U13938)
posted 7 minutes ago
TOOR.
How about a manager who takes over a club four points off relegation zone and gets them to 8th in eighteen months. And gets them to two cup finals at the same time?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Err £100m to get eighth? Showing terrible tactics, team selections and substitutions throughout.
How about a manager who inherited a team filled with the likes of Konchesky, Poulsen, Ngog, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos and has managed to get rid of them all?
-----------------------------------------------
And Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Carragher, Aurelio, Kuyt, Maxi, Gerrard, Meireles, Torres, amongst others.
Maybe you're right. Let's sack him and bring in a manager who's only achievement is not getting relegated!
----------------------------------------------
Yes, let's do it because surely nobody could do any worse than what Kenny has.
btw - The net spend under Dalglish is £23mill.
---------------------------------------------------------
No it isn't. Regardless, players were moved out with the exception of Meireles and Torres who weren't part of the first team. We then bought around five players for the first team for around £100m. We then went backwards.
"If I didn't know you better, Toor, I'd say you were regurgitating opinions from the Murdoch press."
Well that's good, as I don't read newspapers. My opinions came long, long before the press started getting on Kenny's back. I have been saying it since December!
How long has Aqua got on his contract? We're being shafted by the Italian teams and it has to stop. Aqua should be told that if he can't get a permanent move, he'll have to knuckle down with us. His comfort on the ball is something completely different to any of our other midfield options.
I don't really want Martinez; he's pulled off some miracles at Wigan and you have to admire his adventurous play, but Wigan regularly go through large swathes of the season being battered. He has potential, but everything is relative; don't forget that Roy Hodgson is an excellent bottom half manager.
Attacking play notwithstanding, there's not much to suggest that Martinez would be able go come in and do well at a club that wants to get positive results in about 75% of their games.
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posted on 14/5/12
much as i love king kenny, the short period he had managing and as director of football over john barnes ws an unmitigated disaster.
he will always be my hero along with henrik larsson but i have my doubts.
genuinely hope i'm wrong
posted on 14/5/12
How many players in want to stand up and be counted/make score goals in our team these days?
I count
Suarez, Carroll, Skrtel, Bellamy (cant always play) and Sterling (being painfully slowly introduced)
with Maxi and Kuyt threatening on occasion??
Who else??
Hendo - played our of position and looks lost on the flanks (had a good game at CM against Chelsea)
Downing - played out of position a lot, but hasnt made a huge impact
Adam - started off good, but struggled and got injured.
Its obvious with those stats something is seriously wrong!
posted on 14/5/12
2/3 more players in key positions and we'll be fine.
KK is the man.
Just need to get rid of deadwood.
Oh aye and Shelvey isn't our Saviour.
Reina
Johnson
Skrtle
Agger
Enrique
Adam Johnson
Gerrard
Lucas / Aqualani (either him or someone as creative)
Moses
Suarez
Dzecko
I'd also go for Dembele (Gerrard's Succsessor ?)
Dirk "my second touch is a tackle" Kuyt,
Maxi,
Aurelio,
J Cole
and
Adam
can all be sold.
posted on 14/5/12
Dr Seven, IMO you post is probably the most incisive, accurate analysis of our season, team and, especially manager that I will read. You cannot be challenged on any aspect which you raise. To see our club end the season 37 points behind the winners, their GD 64; ours 7 says it all.
I am coming to the conclusion that this simply cannot go on. Change the manager/team? I really don't know. I haven't seen the game yet but apparently, Swans played us off the park. Yes, the mighty Swansea. I for one would not be surprised if John W H wields the axe. We don't seem to be going anywhere. We wallop Chelsea off the park on Tuesday; yesterday we succumb. Again. Rodgers for Anfield? He couldn't do any worse. JimmyTheRed
posted on 14/5/12
Spot on OP, we've had an urgency problem for a long time, when we do break the lack of bodies making an effort to get in to the box is terrifying, and we end up eith trying to find our one striker amongst 3 defenders or wait and end up having 3 against 8.
Gerrard hasn't got the legs to go box to box any more and we really need someone to take a bit of responsibility in the middle of the park (still unsure why we got rid of Aquilani AND Meireles ).
This was always one of the main complaints I levelled at Lucas in the dark days, he would always look for the easy pass rather than take a bit of responsibility and try and make things happen like a centre mid should do, but he's a lot better now. Unfortunately we've had Spearing in for most of the year and he is basically Lucas before he turned good.
Shelvey looks like he has the ability and occasionally so does Henderson but they suffer from a lack of confidence and consistency. Unless the players we buy this year are absolutely spot on, a la Newcastle, we can kiss 4th spot goodbye for the next few years.
posted on 14/5/12
Good article and one I agree with. I can understand when people make mistakes, it happens, mistakes happen. The thing that gets me though is when mistakes are repeated over and over again. When this happens, change needs to be made, change hasn't come from the manager and therefore the manager needs to be changed.
posted on 14/5/12
Kenny seems to have a few blind spots
Jay has to go surely, not even good enough for the reserves
Aquillani - considering we brought Adam who unfortunately is a poor decision maker (particularly in the last 3rd) I really don't know why we haven't at least given him a chance. When I've seen him he looks forward and can play a pass / be creative and score a few goals
Kenny needs to understand as well that to get the best out of Stevie he needs a solid platform behind him and play him higher up the pitch. Lucas will come back but I think we still need a really good DM player then have the option to play Stevie or even Aqua in an attacking role
Adam & Henderson are squad players...with Shelvey still in development
Downing can't continue to aim balls aimlessly into the middle can he? As a seasoned professional I'm surprised by such a lack of real end product. He seems to rarely get his head up and deliver a proper ball
Jose - what's happened? Gone from looking solid to shaky and poorly positioned. Needs some work over the summer and reminding that he is a defender first & foremost....
Pushing Stevie further forward and not thinking he is still capable of been a box to box CM would enable him to link with Luis & feed Carroll. We still need one more up there though as Bellamy again is only really an impact player now
posted on 14/5/12
comment by absolutetruth11 (U9573)
posted 26 minutes ago
Kenny seems to have a few blind spots
Jay has to go surely, not even good enough for the reserves
----------------------------------------
Spearing was a long time stand out performer in the reserves. However he hasn't been good enough and if we can replace him, then we should.
"Aquillani - considering we brought Adam who unfortunately is a poor decision maker (particularly in the last 3rd) I really don't know why we haven't at least given him a chance. When I've seen him he looks forward and can play a pass / be creative and score a few goals"
Aquilani wanted to leave, so he did. His agent was banding him around Italy for months.
"Downing can't continue to aim balls aimlessly into the middle can he? As a seasoned professional I'm surprised by such a lack of real end product. He seems to rarely get his head up and deliver a proper ball"
His two choices this season have been, take on the man, get to the line, cross the ball into an empty box
or
Receive the ball, see there's nobody in the box, no point taking the man on, pass it to the full back.
This is the result of Kenny's Suarez lone striker nobody in the box no goals system. When Carroll and Downing play together, which is few, Downing plays on the right.
"Jose - what's happened? Gone from looking solid to shaky and poorly positioned. Needs some work over the summer and reminding that he is a defender first & foremost...."
Similar to Downing, often gets to the line with nobody in the box, he gets nervous, makes mistakes, then this affects his defensive game also.
Players are low in confidence due to our miserable league campaign and as such some look like they're not good enough, however they are good enough and played in the right system, they're gain confidence and prove that.
posted on 14/5/12
There's no dead-wood in the squad to sell...apart from maybe Aurelio, Cole & Aquilani.
Everyone esle can be useful if Kenny learns how to utilise his squad and stop persisting with his new ones.
Kuyt & Maxi should only be sold if there replacements lined-up.
We need to build a squad not keep dismantling it and buying stop gaps.
posted on 14/5/12
Nice One Seven 5 stars.
I heard on the radio on my way to work that the odds are in for next season. Liverpool are 50-1. Now I know there's no chance of us winning it but these have to be the longest odds for a Liverpool side in living memory. Also, a lot of money has been put on Martinez becoming the next manager, so read what you want into that.
posted on 14/5/12
comment by bixentelizarazu (U10767)
posted 1 minute ago
Nice One Seven 5 stars.
I heard on the radio on my way to work that the odds are in for next season. Liverpool are 50-1. Now I know there's no chance of us winning it but these have to be the longest odds for a Liverpool side in living memory. Also, a lot of money has been put on Martinez becoming the next manager, so read what you want into that.
-----------------------------------------------
I wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez. However he's still fairly new and inexperienced, especially managing a top club.
posted on 14/5/12
There's no dead-wood in the squad to sell...apart from maybe Aurelio, Cole & Aquilani.
---------------------------------------
You can't sell Aurelio as he's out of contract, that's what made it extremely baffling when he played against Fulham. There was no point in playing a man who had been out most of the season when you had a young lad in Robbinson on the bench, looking for the game time.
Kennys great and knows what he's doing though!
Auqalani and cole will bing in a combined fee of about £3.50. Kuyt will go for 1 million if he moves to a club abroad and Maxi has 1 year left and is 32? Will get released rather than sold!
posted on 14/5/12
Cole will fetch around £4m. Aquilani around £6m.
posted on 14/5/12
TOOR.
You 'wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez'!
Wigan's league finishes under him have been 16th, 16th, 15th.
If that's what marks him out in fans' eyes as a potential LFC manager then we really are in trouble.
posted on 14/5/12
No need to be pedantic on a Monday morning KLS.
You know what i meant
posted on 14/5/12
Who off Toor?
Milan have bum poked us over Aqua and have deliberately not played him as to avoid a permenant move and whilst his contract dwindles away his value dwindles with it!
Coles wages would scare off anyone! If we get £10m for them, I'll swallow my own man juice!
posted on 14/5/12
QPR and Spurs might...even Westham if they get promoted
posted on 14/5/12
comment by shortlight (U13938)
posted 8 minutes ago
TOOR.
You 'wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez'!
Wigan's league finishes under him have been 16th, 16th, 15th.
If that's what marks him out in fans' eyes as a potential LFC manager then we really are in trouble.
------------------------------------------------
Well that's not too good is it? How about a manager who spends £100m and finishes eighth? Would Martinez have those positions in he had £100m to spend. Time to wake up, Kenny has failed massively and he hasn't seen the mistakes he's made, that's obvious, with no signs he tried to change it.
posted on 14/5/12
comment by King Luis Suarez - I might be fick but I can s... (U1695)
posted 10 minutes ago
Who off Toor?
Milan have bum poked us over Aqua and have deliberately not played him as to avoid a permenant move and whilst his contract dwindles away his value dwindles with it!
Coles wages would scare off anyone! If we get £10m for them, I'll swallow my own man juice!
----------------------------------------
Aquilani will not go anywhere for less the £6m. There will be a host of clubs lining up to take him at that price. Regardless, if it's less, he should be forced to stay.
Cole will easily fetch £4m. He seems to be enjoying it in France and the fans of Lille are happy with his performances.
You're just the master pessimist aren't you?
posted on 14/5/12
You 'wouldn't be disappointed with Martinez'!
Wigan's league finishes under him have been 16th, 16th, 15th.
If that's what marks him out in fans' eyes as a potential LFC manager then we really are in trouble.
For Martinez to even keep Wigan in the PL with a tiny budget, small crowds, constantly loosing their better players is a huge feat when much bigger clubs like Birmingham, Newcastle and West Ham have gone down.
If we were to go for a young manager from the PL he's the stand out candidate for me, he was instrumental in Swansea's rise through the football league and started the whole philosophy Rodgers is getting so much (deserved) praise for.
posted on 14/5/12
TOOR.
How about a manager who takes over a club four points off relegation zone and gets them to 8th in eighteen months. And gets them to two cup finals at the same time?
How about a manager who inherited a team filled with the likes of Konchesky, Poulsen, Ngog, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos and has managed to get rid of them all?
Maybe you're right. Let's sack him and bring in a manager who's only achievement is not getting relegated!
btw - The net spend under Dalglish is £23mill.
If I didn't know you better, Toor, I'd say you were regurgitating opinions from the Murdoch press.
posted on 14/5/12
Martinez is a very respected coach in Spain.
However, he's not ready for LFC yet
posted on 14/5/12
Thats a great point shortlight; nice to see some fans have a sense of perspective
posted on 14/5/12
omment by shortlight (U13938)
posted 7 minutes ago
TOOR.
How about a manager who takes over a club four points off relegation zone and gets them to 8th in eighteen months. And gets them to two cup finals at the same time?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Err £100m to get eighth? Showing terrible tactics, team selections and substitutions throughout.
How about a manager who inherited a team filled with the likes of Konchesky, Poulsen, Ngog, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos and has managed to get rid of them all?
-----------------------------------------------
And Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Carragher, Aurelio, Kuyt, Maxi, Gerrard, Meireles, Torres, amongst others.
Maybe you're right. Let's sack him and bring in a manager who's only achievement is not getting relegated!
----------------------------------------------
Yes, let's do it because surely nobody could do any worse than what Kenny has.
btw - The net spend under Dalglish is £23mill.
---------------------------------------------------------
No it isn't. Regardless, players were moved out with the exception of Meireles and Torres who weren't part of the first team. We then bought around five players for the first team for around £100m. We then went backwards.
"If I didn't know you better, Toor, I'd say you were regurgitating opinions from the Murdoch press."
Well that's good, as I don't read newspapers. My opinions came long, long before the press started getting on Kenny's back. I have been saying it since December!
posted on 14/5/12
How long has Aqua got on his contract? We're being shafted by the Italian teams and it has to stop. Aqua should be told that if he can't get a permanent move, he'll have to knuckle down with us. His comfort on the ball is something completely different to any of our other midfield options.
I don't really want Martinez; he's pulled off some miracles at Wigan and you have to admire his adventurous play, but Wigan regularly go through large swathes of the season being battered. He has potential, but everything is relative; don't forget that Roy Hodgson is an excellent bottom half manager.
Attacking play notwithstanding, there's not much to suggest that Martinez would be able go come in and do well at a club that wants to get positive results in about 75% of their games.
Page 1 of 2