UnitedRed
--------------
I think you miss the point. ArabManc mentioned Africa. Then somebody made a reference to his name. Then AM complained.

Why did he complain? He started it FFS.

I didn't complain about the Chelsea guys comment you idiot, the Admins just brought it up as a reasoning in why my name should be changed. If it was complained you would have seen the Site Moderator message deleting it

comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)

posted 1 minute ago

UnitedRed
--------------
I think you miss the point. ArabManc mentioned Africa. Then somebody made a reference to his name. Then AM complained.

Why did he complain? He started it FFS.
-----------------------------------

You aren't very good at following what has actually been said are you? Instead you just read what you want and what fits into your agenda. AM did not complain about that post. Admin used it as an example.

Are you going to have a go at answering my question anytime soon?

What is racist about AM mentioning that Chelsea have a lot of African fans in response to the point that United have a lot of African fans?

comment by SouthLondonManc (U12028)


posted 1 minute ago

UnitedRed
--------------
I think you miss the point. ArabManc mentioned Africa. Then somebody made a reference to his name. Then AM complained.

-----------------
Another incorrect assumption

SLM just leave it now.

Everyone knows your true colours when it comes to this forum

I'm amazed you still think you're fooling anyone

If the name wasnt or isnt within your guidelines then the answer is simple, and it should have been dealt with a long time ago when it was created, as it's nothing to do with the subsequent comment X or Y or comments A, B , C

As I mentioned about the specific 'conversation' you highlighted, you should simply ignore anything that doesn't break your guidelines IMO. If it does then take action. Unfortunately that's the job of moderation.

I think you misunderstood me re the singling out. I was simply saying that coming on to the thread and posting previous comments that irrespective of your motives can have the affect of either turning peoples views against AM or encouraging further problems wasn't wise (look at what ensued).

I can totally understand why you felt the need to reply to this thread, I would have been surprised if you didnt, but again IMO you should have simply said AM does not comply with our naming guidelines (if that's the case) so we asked for him to change it, and the reason it doesn't comply is X. Then all the other he said, you said, they said stuff is just a side show.

Anyway, as I said 99.9% of the time you do a great job, but IMO this situation hasn't been ideal, and wanted to express my views on the matter given it's an important subject.

SLM

you are being ridiculous.

AM mentioned Chelsea's African fan base (not 'Africa' in the context of the discussion.

Why is it racist?

ignore the smiley dont know where that came from

Admins, that thing you said about having religious and political usernames. Is it in the house rules? It would be a good idea to put it up there for future users signing up.

He's not whiter than white. Put it that way.

This cry me a river, violins at the double, "don't cry for me I'm already dead" acts don't wash with me.

RBW
-------
I know Chelsea fans from Africa who go to games every month. They're rich, they can afford to fly there and would find the STEREOTYPE offensive.

comment by The Wonderfully Sweet Little Pea (U6951)


posted 20 seconds ago

If the name wasnt or isnt within your guidelines then the answer is simple, and it should have been dealt with a long time ago when it was created, as it's nothing to do with the subsequent comment X or Y or comments A, B , C

-------------------
Pea

I see no reason why the Admins can't review their policies on an ongoing basis depending upon the goings on in the forums. I'm sure this is a learning curve for them.

I'm sure they had reservations initially but decided to see if any problems were caused.

They did not insist AM change his name. They asked him if he would so religious themes didn't occur in the sports forums in the future.

I think I would have acted in a smiliar way. let it slide, see what occurs, and review when necessary.

i see no reason why they can't simply make a policy decision on this now based on a 1 year learning curve

I know Chelsea fans from Africa who go to games every month. They're rich, they can afford to fly there and would find the STEREOTYPE offensive
***

SLM you are been silly now. OK you know some rich Africans...but the vast majority of PL football fans in Africa cant afford that luxury.

Macca

'Arab' doesn't denote something religious or political. There are millions of Christian Arabs as well as Muslims, and lots of different political persuasions.

To me, this name has no substantial difference to the user names that link the user's identity with other badges of origin. If not 'Arab' then why is 'Irish' or 'Norwegian' okay? If the only real difference is that there are a few people on the board who have a problem with Arabs and it provokes some ethnically-orientated abuse, I think we have to conclude that it is the people who react to the name, not the name itself, that's the problem.

Clearly from what the Admins have revealed, there have been instances in the past where AM's antagonistic attitude to other groups of people hasn't helped. Clearly, he has to be very careful not to be a hypocrite and to make sure he doesn't perpetuate the same kind of behaviour he has experienced. But that is a separate issue. If AM (or any other poster) steps out of line, the right response is to play the ball not the man: take issue with what he said, not the fact of his Arab heritage.

Anyway, as I said 99.9% of the time you do a great job, but IMO this situation hasn't been ideal
-------------------------------------------

I'll give you that. However we recommended a display name change which removed the element of "race" which would be labelled to every comment made by that user.

When people are partial to exchanging insults, sadly that element of "race" has been used and subsequently generates complaints. Site wide this the problem rested almost solely with the "Arab Manc" account. Hence our recommendation, but however much we may have failed we attempted to be tactfull, by not just deleting his display name.

I am genuinely of the view our site isn't full of racists but there are plenty of users who seem to like insulting people. We just try and manage that as best we can without going totally ban happy.

Firstly Macca if the admins ask you to do something you do it. I doubt they use threatening language too often. If Tony Soprano said can you please change your name, you wouldn't ignore him, because he didnt say you 'must' do it.

Secondly, I've no issue with naming policy being reviewed IF that's what has happened here, but I do have an issue if policy is suddenly being driven by the people giving out racist abuse or just abuse. If for example the abusers had been warned, suspended or banned, and then the Admins had said you know what, you've done nothing wrong as your name was within our guidelines, but we're now going to ensure noone has X Y or Z in their names for the following reasons, then fine.

This all just kind of feels like someone has said 'you know what there a loads of abusive idiots on this site, so what we're going to do is try and take away anything those idiots find a beacon for abuse, no matter how innocent, instead of dealing with the abusive idiots.

Anyway nuff said on the matter.

Fair enough Russian

Maybe I'm in the wrong here.

I'll digress

Fair enough Admin 1.

Apologies I've added to the debate again, but I wrote the reply above before seeing yours.

Less than 1.5 housr ago i got a complaint about this content

"They are Americans mate, stupid is part of their nature "
--------------------------------

A fair slam dunk in terms of deletion. Do you ban the account? That is a much more difficult call.

The admins didnt ask him to change his name, they suggested it because people used it to insult him leading him to complain.

Ok Pea

I've kinda accepted I got this one wrong

Less than 1.5 housr ago i got a complaint about this content

"They are Americans mate, stupid is part of their nature "


Read that on the Liverpool board I think, but banning? I don't know really.

BTW Well said Red Russian above, as that's sort of where I'm coming from re the name. I personally dont see why someone can't call themselves Arab Manc, especially if it's because he will get abuse.

If the Arab name is banned because some morons associate it negatively or it is some sort of personal identifier then should 'Manc' be banned as well?

Anyway, must stop on this

"They are Americans mate, stupid is part of their nature "
==========================================

Personaly, I wouldn't even delete that comment...

Personaly, I wouldn't even delete that comment...
------------
Exactly, just a harmless stereotype.

Did the admins advise anyone with Torres, Carroll, Henderson and Adam in their name to change it to avoid ridicule?