Whole-heartedly agree Carrickature, but we all have had a thread like this before which was heavily split-minded. Let's not create another JA606, who's right 'war' thread.

I don't think it's a split thread when it's posted on the United board. Essentially I was putting it out there for United fans and actually I think it's the best reasoning I've heard over the last few days - just surprised it came from Durham.

As stated, I think you'd have to be lacking in brain cells to agree to go on the standby list after the season he's had and the last ten years he's endured for England. Add in to the fact he's had an achilles injury all season and I suspect he probably thought why should I keep training on standby for three weeks to potentially sit on the bench and train for another month when I could be resting up for next season.

Five stars I think

He should have been the second name on the team sheet (Hart first). I don't agree with his refusal to be a backup to the squad, but can fully understand it.

I also agree. He has has achieved far more than all other English midfielders but because he's doesnt "shine" like Frank and Gerrard do, he gets dropped.

It's ridiculous that we dont pick him, because as you mentioned, he actually keeps the ball. Just because he doesn't do the occasional hollywood pass doesnt mean he's not a good midfielder. And instead, we end up the Lampard and Gerrard misplacing passes left, right and centre

But oh well, it's there loss

I think there is an element of petulance - as there was when Scholes and Carragher jacked it in. But you have a season like that, you achieve all you have, and in that time England put in performances like they did against Germany. Then the boss asks you to go on standby - not even in the 23 - and you know you're better than what's been picked. Phoenix is right in their being a split but everyone should be able to see that a percentage of people would think shove it.

I don't think patriotism comes in to it. Yes we all want to play for our country but when you have barriers in the way that can't be moved no matter what you do - fantastic season, different option that suits international football, etc - it's common sense to go no matter what happens I'm wasting my time.

I posted an article on how the england team should be made mostly by the two Manchester teams and especially Manchester United players. Because, our players are bred to win and if they can win premier leagues,FA cups and Champions Leagues, they are clearly good enough. They know what it's like to play in big games.

He should have been the most important player in the side,sitting in the centre of the pitch with everything going through him,he's by far the best English passer of a football and I'm amazed that he's not even going

Sort of slipping back in the euro squad debate but I agree a team made of the two Manchester teams would have been great. Hart, Rio, Lescott, Barry, Carrick, Young, Rooney would have made a great sping. Then the likes of A Johnson, Wellbeck, Richards and Smalling would have been great additions.

Roy has gone for three Chelsea defenders which shows some sense because they play together and Lampard plays with them too. The problem is he picked the wrong teams to integrate. Then again, maybe the negative tactics of Chelsea impressed him so much it swayed him. This is after all the way he plays. Not taking Carrick shows he has no interest in what the ball is doing, he just wants men behind the ball defending for their lives.

Robbo1879 (U12478)
posted 27 minutes ago
I posted an article on how the england team should be made mostly by the two Manchester teams and especially Manchester United players. Because, our players are bred to win and if they can win premier leagues,FA cups and Champions Leagues, they are clearly good enough. They know what it's like to play in big games.
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comment by Paularabsleftfoot (U1037)
posted 26 minutes ago
He should have been the most important player in the side,sitting in the centre of the pitch with everything going through him,he's by far the best English passer of a football and I'm amazed that he's not even going
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For me Carrick is one of the most underrated players, everyone always seems to look at his faults and not look at his superb passing, I think he'd be great in the England team and I'd rather he went than an ageing Lampard or Gerrard! And this is coming from a Liverpool fan!

Whilst I'm not Gerard or Lampard I'm not above being pragmatic and for me based on their past England performance and their form this season only one should have gone. I couldn't say who. Gerard normally but I've been so unimpressed with him this year I really think that unless he vastly improves his game he's going to get found out big time next month. As for Fat Frank, he's played well recently but it's not been hard. He's been one of ten defenders fighting for their lives, I could name fifty midfielders who could do that job. So in summary, Carrick should have been accomodated at the expense of one of those two or one of Parker and Barry - who whilst having good seasons do exactly the same job.

I think Carrick has earned his place in the squad, more so than many of the others. He's the consummate team player, he doesn't go for the "Hollywood ball" that looks spectacular on TV, but doesn't actually achieve a lot. He's one of the few players that plays intelligently, and is willing to sacrifice his own performance for the sake of the team, and I think that, allied with the fact that he quietly gets on with his job without the baggage of OK magazine photo shoots and paparazzi shots of him falling out of nightclubs has gone against him.

He's been a good professional for both club & country, and his reward has been "sorry, but would you mind putting your summer on hold just in case?"
I can fully understand his decision. If we're 1-0 up in a crunch game, and you're looking for someone to keep possession and protect the defence whilst having an eye for a late opening in the opponent's defence, who would you rather have at your disposal; Carrick or Downing?

I'm not as angry as I was a few days ago and I'm sure as the tournament gets closer I'll be up for England, but every time I think about Terry, Gerard Captain, Downing and the idiocy of Hodgsons selections it winds me right up again. I just don't understand what input Neville had and how he wouldn't have advised against some of Roy's selections. Considering what he's been saying on Sky, he's openly berated Henderson and Downing, and always speaks about the value of Carrick. Associating himself with Roy could see his promising career come down in tatters.

I would honestly have picked 37 yr old David Beckham before Downing.At least he wouldve contributed with some service and deadball situations

Whats even more disappointing was that this was probably his best opportunity to get in the squad. With wilshere out and other young players not quite ready.

I suspect, we'll be a better team when Wilshere is back because, like Carrick and Scholes, he has real technical ability and is really good in possession. I'm just frustrated for Carrick really, any other European team would have him in their squad (except Spain), yet here we offer him he a place on waiting list.

The Wilshire thing is a good point. Quite how he will fit in to Roy's plan is something I look forward to seeing. Clearly Roy has no interest in playing football and keeping the ball - ignoring Carrick shows that because he isn't even in the squad as a plan b option.

Carrickature, you've got me worried now. Will Wilshere be cast into the shadows along with Carrick and Scholes? I hope and think not. I suspect he'll replace either Frank or Gerrard when they are too old and have deteriorated further.

Wilshire will be ok. The media love him and unfortunately that's not something Carrick has ever had. If he had then I'm sure he would have been in.

I remember Scholes' exit from the England squad clearly and that was down to the media clamour for Lampard. That's why the media can do one as far as I'm concerned. They have no idea about Carrick and yet he's played here for years - they simply don't understand his role. And they go on about Scholes now like he's some sort of genius - which we all know he has been - yet it was them who forced him out for Lampard. I think as fans we have a right to feel these injustices but the media don't

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I wouldn't have picked any of the dippers,not a one should be on the plane

And yet he picked four and had one on standby. Go figure.

Fully agree with everything posted in this debate, and how downing can be picked before Adam Johnson is a total mystery to me.

not bothered he's not going to be honest