Good points raised
People who are somehow expecting England to play free flowing fluid attractive football just because the old guard arent there are deluding themselves. Clearly the new generation who are coming through are being overhyped beyond belief
By all means let go of Terry Lampard Gerrard Cole etc but dont be so surprised if England perform worse than they already are because from what Ive seen.. the only player to possibly shout about from the new crop is Jack Wilshere. He's probably the only player who use the ball the way he wants to and control it in tight spaces and keep possession. Not so sure of the others. People automatically think because these players are young, they MUST be talented.
What they need to is change the coaching so in 15-20 years time, thats when you will start to see technical players being produced. Lee DIxon got it spot on yesterday after the match.
Worrying times for England, they are going to progessively get worse with the youth they are producing and when the experienced players retire, they are decent players, but no match for the likes of Germany, Brazil, Holland, Spain, Argentina, Portugal, Italy ect.
Its been discussed to death what the problem is, the youth set up. Kids are told to get stuck in and launch the ball when they get it. England are afraid of the ball. They dont produce ice cool players on the ball like Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo..ect.
I can't see Gerrard or Terry going to the WC in 2014 to be honest. But Phil Jones does look promising. Rodwell has been on the scene, in the PL, for a while now and hasn't really set the world alight. But maybe that's what we need? Players that aren't billed as superstars, and a team where no man is bigger than the player he's standing next to.
On the plus side, the new centre at Burton is opening, so in 10-15 years time, we might see the benefits.
5
I've been saying this for ages.
The rate at which Russia, Croatia and Belgium in particular are improving is no joke. Sooner or later England will not even be a top 10 team
The one good thing about this tournament is that for the first time in ages we had a team, not a bunch of individuals.
What has annoyed me over the years is that managers have looked at the best 11 players and picked a team to fit them all in. This is whay we saw years of Gerrard being wasted on the left or being asked to play as the DM next to Lampard.
Luckily, Lampard and Barry got injured so made the deciaion easy for Hodgson. And he bravely left Rio out.
The way forward now is to make sure that Lampard, Barry, Parker never get another England cap. I don't want to see them in an England shirt again. Terry and Gerrrard shoudl also be phasd out ove rthe next two years. We bring in Rodwell, Henderson, Cleverly, Wilshere and start building a midfield around these players.
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
This is not an exaggeration: in 2014 England will be relying on the likes of Jack Rodwell and Phil Jones who, though good, are no Gerrard and Terry
----------------------------------
thats a daft comment, terry and gerrard were not world beaters at 19/20 years of age, so why would you expext jones and rodwell to be??
Gerrard at 19/20 was excellent and would easily have walked into the England team even then. Terry didn't excel until his early 20s but defenders generally peak later on
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
--------------
at the minute probably not, be he is young and will get better.
And there was me thinking that this was the Liverpool FC site. OK, the good bits. The team played to their best, but, after Blomfontein 2010, anything else was an improvement. StevieG for me didn't set the world on fire, but I presume that he was sticking strictly to the game plan. He spent all night chasing after the ball. John Terry was England's best player in the competition, by a country mile. John Terry nor StevieG will be playing in Brazil. Just like Scotland, where Kenny himself said on a past visit, the football parks where kids can go for a kick around are all disappearing, there's no opportunity, no incentive, no desire to play by the youth of today. They get in to a club youth policy, or PlayStation3 becomes the order of the day. Reincarnated is right; it will take at least 10-15 years for anything to develop from there. Remember Henry, Anelka? There's your benchmark. jimmyTheRed
For me the team should be built around Smalling, Wilshere and Hart. Everybody else should have to earn their place
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
-------------------
He will be. Cleverly, Rodwell and Henderson are not yet international class but they are the best young central midfielders in England.
Henderson is a tidy footballer, he has a good touch, good technique and can pass the ball. It's not outstanding but is exactly what is needed in the English midfield.
FatJanMolby (U4297)
You've got to be joking. Gerrard did not do as much as you all think. Henderson did not touch the ball in 30 minutes last night. And those of you writing off Lampard - the only reason he should be left out is his age but he is the only central midfielder you have who is capable of covering the whole pitch for 90 minutes and passing the ball less than two metres and going towards the play instead of running away from it.
Your first problem is a simple one. When Terry or Lescott have the ball, run towards them to collect the ball, don't run away and wail for a long ball. Second, if the central midfield go towards the play, then there will always be various options for short, medium and long passes and you can mix your game. The only thing we ever see from England are long balls from the keeper and Gerrard. Keep the ball and you may start creating chances.
xiuxiuejar
Well said. I was just writing out something similiar in regards to how English players run away from the ball and relinquish control of it as soon as possibly.
Being a central midfielder.. you should pass the ball on quickly and then run towards the player you passed it to, to give him an option. Majority of our English players, seem to pass it and then run on like a headless chicken towards the goal.
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
--------------
at the minute probably not, be he is young and will get better.
---------------------------
Dear me, there's not enough time left in the universe for the improvement he needs
England may have decent players coming through, but when you look back, it's true to say that we had a golden generation in 2006. With Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, G. Neville, J. Cole, Rooney all at the height of their powers, plus Owen and Beckham in there as well, we had a team that should have been more competitive. It will be some time until we have a team that is that good again.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If keeping possession and accurate passing is the goal then Henderson is already international standard. Comfortably.
If you want more than that then he's just not ready.
England may have decent players coming through, but when you look back, it's true to say that we had a golden generation in 2006. With Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, G. Neville, J. Cole, Rooney all at the height of their powers, plus Owen and Beckham in there as well, we had a team that should have been more competitive. It will be some time until we have a team that is that good again.
-
the problem with them was they were never a team. i dont know about your club, but at arsenal, all the english lads and future england lads get along really well and all best of mates and that builds a great team ethic. they are saying this england team is the first time we have been a 'team' for a long time, and that is because of the inclusion of more youth, players like Ox and Wilshere have the ability to become world beaters, better than gerrard and beckham.
Combining good players and good teamwork is difficult though, because the better the players, the bigger the egos and the more likely it is that there will be issues. This is why the Dutch and the French often fail.
I posted earlier regarding this topic about youth development
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/129867
Michael Scarn (U5023)
The problem is that these players had Erikson, Mclaren and then Capelo as coach. Negative coaches, negative tactics. England need to play like a premier league team, with pace and attacking flair, not like an Italian team from the 1980s.
You've got to be joking. Gerrard did not do as much as you all think. Henderson did not touch the ball in 30 minutes last night. And those of you writing off Lampard - the only reason he should be left out is his age but he is the only central midfielder you have who is capable of covering the whole pitch for 90 minutes and passing the ball less than two metres and going towards the play instead of running away from it.
---------------------------
What else was Henderson supposed to do? In both games when he was brought on, it was late in the games and England had reverted to type, and were defenind deep. We had no possession as a team so its not wonder Henderson barely touched the ball.
Gerrard was our best player in the tournament, but the tactics meants he was having to play too deep. Gerrard can play football, he can pass and he can move forward and as he's shown this tournament he can last 90 minutes, as he had done in all 4 games.
The problem is that Parker is so limited that there is no cohesion in the middle. There's no movement, the players don't create space for one another. This isn't solely down to Gerrard, its the whole team.
I';m not writing off Lampard as a player. He is still a good footballer, but we need to move forward.
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England's problems
Page 1 of 2
posted on 25/6/12
Good points raised
People who are somehow expecting England to play free flowing fluid attractive football just because the old guard arent there are deluding themselves. Clearly the new generation who are coming through are being overhyped beyond belief
By all means let go of Terry Lampard Gerrard Cole etc but dont be so surprised if England perform worse than they already are because from what Ive seen.. the only player to possibly shout about from the new crop is Jack Wilshere. He's probably the only player who use the ball the way he wants to and control it in tight spaces and keep possession. Not so sure of the others. People automatically think because these players are young, they MUST be talented.
What they need to is change the coaching so in 15-20 years time, thats when you will start to see technical players being produced. Lee DIxon got it spot on yesterday after the match.
posted on 25/6/12
Worrying times for England, they are going to progessively get worse with the youth they are producing and when the experienced players retire, they are decent players, but no match for the likes of Germany, Brazil, Holland, Spain, Argentina, Portugal, Italy ect.
Its been discussed to death what the problem is, the youth set up. Kids are told to get stuck in and launch the ball when they get it. England are afraid of the ball. They dont produce ice cool players on the ball like Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo..ect.
posted on 25/6/12
I can't see Gerrard or Terry going to the WC in 2014 to be honest. But Phil Jones does look promising. Rodwell has been on the scene, in the PL, for a while now and hasn't really set the world alight. But maybe that's what we need? Players that aren't billed as superstars, and a team where no man is bigger than the player he's standing next to.
posted on 25/6/12
On the plus side, the new centre at Burton is opening, so in 10-15 years time, we might see the benefits.
posted on 25/6/12
5
I've been saying this for ages.
The rate at which Russia, Croatia and Belgium in particular are improving is no joke. Sooner or later England will not even be a top 10 team
posted on 25/6/12
The one good thing about this tournament is that for the first time in ages we had a team, not a bunch of individuals.
What has annoyed me over the years is that managers have looked at the best 11 players and picked a team to fit them all in. This is whay we saw years of Gerrard being wasted on the left or being asked to play as the DM next to Lampard.
Luckily, Lampard and Barry got injured so made the deciaion easy for Hodgson. And he bravely left Rio out.
The way forward now is to make sure that Lampard, Barry, Parker never get another England cap. I don't want to see them in an England shirt again. Terry and Gerrrard shoudl also be phasd out ove rthe next two years. We bring in Rodwell, Henderson, Cleverly, Wilshere and start building a midfield around these players.
posted on 25/6/12
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
posted on 25/6/12
This is not an exaggeration: in 2014 England will be relying on the likes of Jack Rodwell and Phil Jones who, though good, are no Gerrard and Terry
----------------------------------
thats a daft comment, terry and gerrard were not world beaters at 19/20 years of age, so why would you expext jones and rodwell to be??
posted on 25/6/12
Gerrard at 19/20 was excellent and would easily have walked into the England team even then. Terry didn't excel until his early 20s but defenders generally peak later on
posted on 25/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/6/12
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
--------------
at the minute probably not, be he is young and will get better.
posted on 25/6/12
And there was me thinking that this was the Liverpool FC site. OK, the good bits. The team played to their best, but, after Blomfontein 2010, anything else was an improvement. StevieG for me didn't set the world on fire, but I presume that he was sticking strictly to the game plan. He spent all night chasing after the ball. John Terry was England's best player in the competition, by a country mile. John Terry nor StevieG will be playing in Brazil. Just like Scotland, where Kenny himself said on a past visit, the football parks where kids can go for a kick around are all disappearing, there's no opportunity, no incentive, no desire to play by the youth of today. They get in to a club youth policy, or PlayStation3 becomes the order of the day. Reincarnated is right; it will take at least 10-15 years for anything to develop from there. Remember Henry, Anelka? There's your benchmark. jimmyTheRed
posted on 25/6/12
For me the team should be built around Smalling, Wilshere and Hart. Everybody else should have to earn their place
posted on 25/6/12
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
-------------------
He will be. Cleverly, Rodwell and Henderson are not yet international class but they are the best young central midfielders in England.
Henderson is a tidy footballer, he has a good touch, good technique and can pass the ball. It's not outstanding but is exactly what is needed in the English midfield.
posted on 25/6/12
FatJanMolby (U4297)
You've got to be joking. Gerrard did not do as much as you all think. Henderson did not touch the ball in 30 minutes last night. And those of you writing off Lampard - the only reason he should be left out is his age but he is the only central midfielder you have who is capable of covering the whole pitch for 90 minutes and passing the ball less than two metres and going towards the play instead of running away from it.
Your first problem is a simple one. When Terry or Lescott have the ball, run towards them to collect the ball, don't run away and wail for a long ball. Second, if the central midfield go towards the play, then there will always be various options for short, medium and long passes and you can mix your game. The only thing we ever see from England are long balls from the keeper and Gerrard. Keep the ball and you may start creating chances.
posted on 25/6/12
xiuxiuejar
Well said. I was just writing out something similiar in regards to how English players run away from the ball and relinquish control of it as soon as possibly.
Being a central midfielder.. you should pass the ball on quickly and then run towards the player you passed it to, to give him an option. Majority of our English players, seem to pass it and then run on like a headless chicken towards the goal.
posted on 25/6/12
Fat Jan
You are deluded if you think Henderson is international standard
--------------
at the minute probably not, be he is young and will get better.
---------------------------
Dear me, there's not enough time left in the universe for the improvement he needs
posted on 25/6/12
England may have decent players coming through, but when you look back, it's true to say that we had a golden generation in 2006. With Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, G. Neville, J. Cole, Rooney all at the height of their powers, plus Owen and Beckham in there as well, we had a team that should have been more competitive. It will be some time until we have a team that is that good again.
posted on 25/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/6/12
If keeping possession and accurate passing is the goal then Henderson is already international standard. Comfortably.
If you want more than that then he's just not ready.
posted on 25/6/12
England may have decent players coming through, but when you look back, it's true to say that we had a golden generation in 2006. With Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, G. Neville, J. Cole, Rooney all at the height of their powers, plus Owen and Beckham in there as well, we had a team that should have been more competitive. It will be some time until we have a team that is that good again.
-
the problem with them was they were never a team. i dont know about your club, but at arsenal, all the english lads and future england lads get along really well and all best of mates and that builds a great team ethic. they are saying this england team is the first time we have been a 'team' for a long time, and that is because of the inclusion of more youth, players like Ox and Wilshere have the ability to become world beaters, better than gerrard and beckham.
posted on 25/6/12
Combining good players and good teamwork is difficult though, because the better the players, the bigger the egos and the more likely it is that there will be issues. This is why the Dutch and the French often fail.
posted on 25/6/12
I posted earlier regarding this topic about youth development
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/129867
posted on 25/6/12
Michael Scarn (U5023)
The problem is that these players had Erikson, Mclaren and then Capelo as coach. Negative coaches, negative tactics. England need to play like a premier league team, with pace and attacking flair, not like an Italian team from the 1980s.
posted on 25/6/12
You've got to be joking. Gerrard did not do as much as you all think. Henderson did not touch the ball in 30 minutes last night. And those of you writing off Lampard - the only reason he should be left out is his age but he is the only central midfielder you have who is capable of covering the whole pitch for 90 minutes and passing the ball less than two metres and going towards the play instead of running away from it.
---------------------------
What else was Henderson supposed to do? In both games when he was brought on, it was late in the games and England had reverted to type, and were defenind deep. We had no possession as a team so its not wonder Henderson barely touched the ball.
Gerrard was our best player in the tournament, but the tactics meants he was having to play too deep. Gerrard can play football, he can pass and he can move forward and as he's shown this tournament he can last 90 minutes, as he had done in all 4 games.
The problem is that Parker is so limited that there is no cohesion in the middle. There's no movement, the players don't create space for one another. This isn't solely down to Gerrard, its the whole team.
I';m not writing off Lampard as a player. He is still a good footballer, but we need to move forward.
Page 1 of 2