No offence, Jones is a fantastic young defender, with a very bright future for both Manchester United and England, but this article is palpable nonsense, from a pi$h poor football journalist.
Baresi of England
IMO when Pirlo started to dictate the pace of the game in the 2nd half Phil Jones should of come on to replace Parker. Jones gives you energy, something that was severely lacking from England's midfield. As soon as Pirlo was about to get the ball Jones should of been instructed to close him down straight away and don't give him time on the ball.
I really don't understand how Roy didn't do anything to combat the threat of Pirlo.
I think he is.
From September to January he played most of his football in midfield for United. And he was bloody good too.
Then injuries started to take it's toll on the squad and Jones was moved around accordingly, which certainly didn't help him. But he's still very young and raw and will just get better and better.
I actually think we might see him as a midfielder. He can certainly pass the ball well enough over short distances and he definitely has the stamina and drive to do it. I just think he's too small to be a centre back.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
There is no place for an out of form, undisciplined marauder midfielder who's really a centrehalf in Royball.
This is one of the worst articles I've ever read.
I havent read this particular linked article yet, so wont comment on that specifically, but Martin Samuel is one of the better football journalists IMO, and if he's suggesting Jones is going to be a fantastic player from his first season at United then he'd be right again in my view.
Unfortunately many of our fans slate teenage Jones and don't appreciate what he accomplished in his debut season given the challenges, and the fact he had to play through injuries as well as physical/mental tiredness later in the season, and come back soon after injuries to help the team and still be expected to perform at his peak.
Right, read it now. Seems Samuel is suggesting we dont line up 442 in international football, and as usual we got over whelmed in CM, and needed another player in there. Can't see how anyone can disagree with that. Hodgson is a rigid dinosaur and nothing will change as Samuel says if we continue the non-sensical approach of 2 v 3.
As for Jones and Baresi. Samuel said Capello made that comparison, I didn't read Samuel making that comparison. Sameul did mention two players he thought Jones was like, but clearly said he was nowhere near that standard yet. Just got fantastic potential, which is true again.
As for who should have made up the 3rd midfielder if Hodgson was capable of playing another formation after 40 years plus of not being able to, then it's rather a moot pt now. We can talk about it for the future, but that's rather moot too while Roy is in charge since he wont change from defensive possession conceding 442.
@comment by The Wonderfully Sweet Little Pea
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
putting an extra man in midfield, given our limitations with keeping the ball, seems a complete no-brainer.
However England always put too much pressure on an individual to make all the difference which is impossible when the team can't do the very basics well.
Doesn't matter if its Jones or anyone else, the whole team needs to play differently and understand the importance of ball retention at international level which is played at a far slower pace than the premiership.
Yet Fergie and Capello picked him in Midfield.
He is blatantly a very talented young player who can play 2-3 positions.
If I was judging him only on his Utd performances, I'd say he was much better in midfield than at CB last season.
In fact; I'd say DM, RB and then CB. In that order. He just didn't inspire confidence at Centre back last season, although that will come in time I'm sure.
Why limit Jones to just a CB that's the problem with English football there too transfixed on positions. In Spain their players can play all over pique could play up front he's that good and I'm sure fabregas could play in DM RM LM etc cassilas and de Gea are also good with the ball, Jones can play DM, RB, CB. CB may be his best position but don't limit him to just that position let him express
I disagree with Samuel's assertion that a technical inferiority isn't possible because that would rely on genetics. Skill in football is the product of a range of things. One is genetics (but even here, the genetics of a country that produces more people who are short of stature with a low centre of gravity means that certain countries are more likely to produce Messis, Maradonas and Xavis than England is). Another is coaching. If English youngsters grow up chasing a ball around on big pitches, with their dads yelling at them, and if at a more serious level their clubs only have about a third of the training time with them that the Spanish academies enjoy, we aren't going to develop the same results from the same raw material.
However, I do believe he has a point about the absence of creative thought in English football and the curse of thinking (metaphorically and literally, geometrically) in straight lines.
RR - I thought the argument re technical inferiority was a bit off the mark too, to be fair, but only because technical skill is largely learned not innate and our development from an early age is prehistoric, and as you say things like full size pitches for veyr young kids is mad.
However I'd also disagree height is significant in as much as saying small people will have better technical ability than bigger people. You can have great technical ability and be any size. Ronaldo for example is over 6ft and has fantastic technical ability, because of the way he developed and the practise he put in on certain skills, especially when young and the brain is more receptive to learning.
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Martin Samuel on Phil Jones
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posted on 27/6/12
No offence, Jones is a fantastic young defender, with a very bright future for both Manchester United and England, but this article is palpable nonsense, from a pi$h poor football journalist.
posted on 27/6/12
Baresi of England
IMO when Pirlo started to dictate the pace of the game in the 2nd half Phil Jones should of come on to replace Parker. Jones gives you energy, something that was severely lacking from England's midfield. As soon as Pirlo was about to get the ball Jones should of been instructed to close him down straight away and don't give him time on the ball.
I really don't understand how Roy didn't do anything to combat the threat of Pirlo.
posted on 27/6/12
I think he is.
From September to January he played most of his football in midfield for United. And he was bloody good too.
Then injuries started to take it's toll on the squad and Jones was moved around accordingly, which certainly didn't help him. But he's still very young and raw and will just get better and better.
I actually think we might see him as a midfielder. He can certainly pass the ball well enough over short distances and he definitely has the stamina and drive to do it. I just think he's too small to be a centre back.
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
There is no place for an out of form, undisciplined marauder midfielder who's really a centrehalf in Royball.
This is one of the worst articles I've ever read.
posted on 27/6/12
I havent read this particular linked article yet, so wont comment on that specifically, but Martin Samuel is one of the better football journalists IMO, and if he's suggesting Jones is going to be a fantastic player from his first season at United then he'd be right again in my view.
Unfortunately many of our fans slate teenage Jones and don't appreciate what he accomplished in his debut season given the challenges, and the fact he had to play through injuries as well as physical/mental tiredness later in the season, and come back soon after injuries to help the team and still be expected to perform at his peak.
posted on 27/6/12
Right, read it now. Seems Samuel is suggesting we dont line up 442 in international football, and as usual we got over whelmed in CM, and needed another player in there. Can't see how anyone can disagree with that. Hodgson is a rigid dinosaur and nothing will change as Samuel says if we continue the non-sensical approach of 2 v 3.
As for Jones and Baresi. Samuel said Capello made that comparison, I didn't read Samuel making that comparison. Sameul did mention two players he thought Jones was like, but clearly said he was nowhere near that standard yet. Just got fantastic potential, which is true again.
As for who should have made up the 3rd midfielder if Hodgson was capable of playing another formation after 40 years plus of not being able to, then it's rather a moot pt now. We can talk about it for the future, but that's rather moot too while Roy is in charge since he wont change from defensive possession conceding 442.
posted on 27/6/12
@comment by The Wonderfully Sweet Little Pea
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
putting an extra man in midfield, given our limitations with keeping the ball, seems a complete no-brainer.
However England always put too much pressure on an individual to make all the difference which is impossible when the team can't do the very basics well.
Doesn't matter if its Jones or anyone else, the whole team needs to play differently and understand the importance of ball retention at international level which is played at a far slower pace than the premiership.
posted on 27/6/12
Jones is a CB. End of.
posted on 27/6/12
Yet Fergie and Capello picked him in Midfield.
He is blatantly a very talented young player who can play 2-3 positions.
If I was judging him only on his Utd performances, I'd say he was much better in midfield than at CB last season.
In fact; I'd say DM, RB and then CB. In that order. He just didn't inspire confidence at Centre back last season, although that will come in time I'm sure.
posted on 27/6/12
Why limit Jones to just a CB that's the problem with English football there too transfixed on positions. In Spain their players can play all over pique could play up front he's that good and I'm sure fabregas could play in DM RM LM etc cassilas and de Gea are also good with the ball, Jones can play DM, RB, CB. CB may be his best position but don't limit him to just that position let him express
posted on 27/6/12
I disagree with Samuel's assertion that a technical inferiority isn't possible because that would rely on genetics. Skill in football is the product of a range of things. One is genetics (but even here, the genetics of a country that produces more people who are short of stature with a low centre of gravity means that certain countries are more likely to produce Messis, Maradonas and Xavis than England is). Another is coaching. If English youngsters grow up chasing a ball around on big pitches, with their dads yelling at them, and if at a more serious level their clubs only have about a third of the training time with them that the Spanish academies enjoy, we aren't going to develop the same results from the same raw material.
However, I do believe he has a point about the absence of creative thought in English football and the curse of thinking (metaphorically and literally, geometrically) in straight lines.
posted on 27/6/12
RR - I thought the argument re technical inferiority was a bit off the mark too, to be fair, but only because technical skill is largely learned not innate and our development from an early age is prehistoric, and as you say things like full size pitches for veyr young kids is mad.
However I'd also disagree height is significant in as much as saying small people will have better technical ability than bigger people. You can have great technical ability and be any size. Ronaldo for example is over 6ft and has fantastic technical ability, because of the way he developed and the practise he put in on certain skills, especially when young and the brain is more receptive to learning.
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