So the cartoonist is comparing Mario to a Gorilla?
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 10 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
was your wife aware of the recent racial problems balotelli has had with people comparing him to monkeys? That is the important bit which you haven't mentioned at all here.
--------------------------------------
Yes we'd talked about it previously.
comment by Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 8 minutes ago
So the cartoonist is comparing Mario to a Gorilla?
-------------------------------------
No. He's comparing him to King Kong.
RAP - I read that link and find it hard to follow how he felt discriminated against. He was brought in on the highest wages, if there was a race issue neither of those two things would have happened.
One thing did stand out though -
"....adding that the club had not had to deal with an allegation of racism in 18 years."
Something's happened there before!
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 10 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
was your wife aware of the recent racial problems balotelli has had with people comparing him to monkeys? That is the important bit which you haven't mentioned at all here.
--------------------------------------
Yes we'd talked about it previously.
---
so she honestly thinks that people finding it racist that balotelli is depicted in place of a giant gorilla given the recent racist problems he has had is ridiculous and laughable?
comment by Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
Is king Kong a gorilla?
----------------------------------------
No. Have you ever seen a gorilla who looks like that? Certainly not in my local zoo anyhow.
He's a fictional animal in a fictional film.
I've given an explanation why I don't see the cartoon as racist.
Given that we are all aware of the film and Balottelli's history and apart from those on here just on the wind-up, can anyone come up with ideas why some of us see this as racist and some don't?
The only thing I can think is that people want to play down racism in our society and so decide to view it from a non-racist perspective.
I think some people want to perceive things as racist and will then look to see how they can impose racism on something.
Then there are the more neutral people who both categories want to believe they are part of
I think those that want to play down racism are afraid that they will be accused of being racist or are worried about their 'freedom of speech' or whatever being taken away and so try to deflect what is racist, a view that I think is quite damaging
The only thing I can think of is people want to complain, they want to find things wrong where there isn't. Over-the-top anti-racists who in fact do more in promoting racism.
It is getting to the stage when people are worried to say the word, 'black'.
I remember once referring to a native american as an indian, a red skinned indian. I was told that this could be construed as racist with an explanation I was unsure of. But I accepted that there was scope for offense, apologised and moved on. There are some people that would've got defensive and said that there was no bad intent and that it is silly for anyone to get offended by this. I would say that this is a for non-empathetic attitude and can potential be quite damaging.
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 4 seconds ago
I remember once referring to a native american as an indian, a red skinned indian. I was told that this could be construed as racist with an explanation I was unsure of. But I accepted that there was scope for offense, apologised and moved on. There are some people that would've got defensive and said that there was no bad intent and that it is silly for anyone to get offended by this. I would say that this is a for non-empathetic attitude and can potential be quite damaging.
------------------------------------------------
Yes, we should take away all adjectives, then nobody will be offended.
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
------------------------------------------------
Yes, we should take away all adjectives, then nobody will be offended.
---
I don't think that kind of attitude is in any way helpful. Racism is not a trivial problem that you can easily apply rules to and that as soon as you attempt to do so, you lose sense of exactly what racism is.
Some interesting ideas there. We shouldn't get racism and perceiving racism mixed up though.
If someone calls a black person the n word I wouldn't ignore it. I've seen real racism and reported it (kids club - see earlier comment if you can be bothered!)
Instances like that should be brought to light and not brushed away or ignored as 'he didn't really mean it' etc. etc
The monkey man at the Liverpool game - ban for life - without a second thought. However, interpreting art is another thing and this is were we all have different views and see things that aren't there. It's this that puzzles me.
Just by comparison, for the younger members amongst us, here's a clip of a main stream peak time TV sitcom from the 70's, that shows just how what's deemed to be socially acceptable, with regards to 'racist comments' has changed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_gN7zlpnz8
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 5 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
------------------------------------------------
Yes, we should take away all adjectives, then nobody will be offended.
---
I don't think that kind of attitude is in any way helpful. Racism is not a trivial problem that you can easily apply rules to and that as soon as you attempt to do so, you lose sense of exactly what racism is.
---------------------------------------------
I think it's very helpful. Unless people stand up, then we're gonna have racism accusations thrown around where there isn't racism. Obviously with this thread I've learnt why some people might consider this cartoon racist, however if a person is black, the person is black. Every other language has adjectives for people, black is an adjective, it's not a racist word but it is fast heading that way.
comment by Toblerone Boots (U4965)
posted 2 minutes ago
Just by comparison, for the younger members amongst us, here's a clip of a main stream peak time TV sitcom from the 70's, that shows just how what's deemed to be socially acceptable, with regards to 'racist comments' has changed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_gN7zlpnz8
--------------------------------------
Everybody knows we've come on leaps and bounds since the 70's, however we're in danger of bringing it too far, going over the top.
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
but your view on the cartoon changed. So sometimes people don't understand why what they're saying is racist and instead of taking the time to find out why, they just dismiss it.
It is horrible to have your point dismissed when you can legitimately claim as to why you thin something is inflammatory or offensive. It leaves you bitter and creates even more tension. I think it is our responsibility as individuals to tread the line carefully and not give off the impression that we view a person with disdain due to stereotypes. It really isn't difficult to do but some people immediately take it as an attack on them when they're asked to be more careful.
Im very anti the French, but is that allowed?
Everybody knows we've come on leaps and bounds since the 70's, however we're in danger of bringing it too far, going over the top.
---------------------------------------------
That wasn't my point, the reason I posted that, was to show just how perceptions have changed, in terms of using race as 'fair game' in terms of insults (both ways btw) in the same way that hair colour & facial features might be.
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 2 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
but your view on the cartoon changed. So sometimes people don't understand why what they're saying is racist and instead of taking the time to find out why, they just dismiss it.
-------------------------------
My view didn't change. My view is just the same as it was. The only thing that changed is I now understand how some may find it racist. I still think it's wrong that they do but I understand it.
"It is horrible to have your point dismissed when you can legitimately claim as to why you thin something is inflammatory or offensive. It leaves you bitter and creates even more tension."
I agree and it's just as horrible when people claim racism when it's not there which creates tension, bitterness and even racism.
Did anyone look at that link I posted yesterday - the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil one ?
In brief - four members of the public sector workers’ union produced a leaflet with a cartoon of the 3 wise monkeys on the cover and the caption 'Standing Orders Committee' to claim they were being ignored by an important union committee.
One member of that committee is black and took them to court over the cartoon being racist. My question is why would you identify yourself with something that racists say you?
(The four people won the case as it was found not to be racist.)
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
I agree and it's just as horrible when people claim racism when it's not there which creates tension, bitterness and even racism.
---
There are always a few that will go to great lengths to be offended, but that doesn't mean that the others should have to suffer because of it. All that you have to do is be careful and open. If someone says I'm being racist and I'm 100% sure they are just being attention seeking, then just walk away from it, if it is obvious everyone else will see it too.
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Race Row or...
Page 18 of 21
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posted on 29/6/12
So the cartoonist is comparing Mario to a Gorilla?
posted on 29/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 10 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
was your wife aware of the recent racial problems balotelli has had with people comparing him to monkeys? That is the important bit which you haven't mentioned at all here.
--------------------------------------
Yes we'd talked about it previously.
posted on 29/6/12
comment by Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 8 minutes ago
So the cartoonist is comparing Mario to a Gorilla?
-------------------------------------
No. He's comparing him to King Kong.
posted on 29/6/12
RAP - I read that link and find it hard to follow how he felt discriminated against. He was brought in on the highest wages, if there was a race issue neither of those two things would have happened.
One thing did stand out though -
"....adding that the club had not had to deal with an allegation of racism in 18 years."
Something's happened there before!
posted on 29/6/12
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 10 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
was your wife aware of the recent racial problems balotelli has had with people comparing him to monkeys? That is the important bit which you haven't mentioned at all here.
--------------------------------------
Yes we'd talked about it previously.
---
so she honestly thinks that people finding it racist that balotelli is depicted in place of a giant gorilla given the recent racist problems he has had is ridiculous and laughable?
posted on 29/6/12
Is king Kong a gorilla?
posted on 29/6/12
comment by Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
Is king Kong a gorilla?
----------------------------------------
No. Have you ever seen a gorilla who looks like that? Certainly not in my local zoo anyhow.
posted on 29/6/12
He's a fictional animal in a fictional film.
posted on 29/6/12
I've given an explanation why I don't see the cartoon as racist.
Given that we are all aware of the film and Balottelli's history and apart from those on here just on the wind-up, can anyone come up with ideas why some of us see this as racist and some don't?
posted on 29/6/12
The only thing I can think is that people want to play down racism in our society and so decide to view it from a non-racist perspective.
I think some people want to perceive things as racist and will then look to see how they can impose racism on something.
Then there are the more neutral people who both categories want to believe they are part of
posted on 29/6/12
I think those that want to play down racism are afraid that they will be accused of being racist or are worried about their 'freedom of speech' or whatever being taken away and so try to deflect what is racist, a view that I think is quite damaging
posted on 29/6/12
The only thing I can think of is people want to complain, they want to find things wrong where there isn't. Over-the-top anti-racists who in fact do more in promoting racism.
It is getting to the stage when people are worried to say the word, 'black'.
posted on 29/6/12
I remember once referring to a native american as an indian, a red skinned indian. I was told that this could be construed as racist with an explanation I was unsure of. But I accepted that there was scope for offense, apologised and moved on. There are some people that would've got defensive and said that there was no bad intent and that it is silly for anyone to get offended by this. I would say that this is a for non-empathetic attitude and can potential be quite damaging.
posted on 29/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 4 seconds ago
I remember once referring to a native american as an indian, a red skinned indian. I was told that this could be construed as racist with an explanation I was unsure of. But I accepted that there was scope for offense, apologised and moved on. There are some people that would've got defensive and said that there was no bad intent and that it is silly for anyone to get offended by this. I would say that this is a for non-empathetic attitude and can potential be quite damaging.
------------------------------------------------
Yes, we should take away all adjectives, then nobody will be offended.
posted on 29/6/12
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
------------------------------------------------
Yes, we should take away all adjectives, then nobody will be offended.
---
I don't think that kind of attitude is in any way helpful. Racism is not a trivial problem that you can easily apply rules to and that as soon as you attempt to do so, you lose sense of exactly what racism is.
posted on 29/6/12
Some interesting ideas there. We shouldn't get racism and perceiving racism mixed up though.
If someone calls a black person the n word I wouldn't ignore it. I've seen real racism and reported it (kids club - see earlier comment if you can be bothered!)
Instances like that should be brought to light and not brushed away or ignored as 'he didn't really mean it' etc. etc
The monkey man at the Liverpool game - ban for life - without a second thought. However, interpreting art is another thing and this is were we all have different views and see things that aren't there. It's this that puzzles me.
posted on 29/6/12
Just by comparison, for the younger members amongst us, here's a clip of a main stream peak time TV sitcom from the 70's, that shows just how what's deemed to be socially acceptable, with regards to 'racist comments' has changed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_gN7zlpnz8
posted on 29/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 5 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
------------------------------------------------
Yes, we should take away all adjectives, then nobody will be offended.
---
I don't think that kind of attitude is in any way helpful. Racism is not a trivial problem that you can easily apply rules to and that as soon as you attempt to do so, you lose sense of exactly what racism is.
---------------------------------------------
I think it's very helpful. Unless people stand up, then we're gonna have racism accusations thrown around where there isn't racism. Obviously with this thread I've learnt why some people might consider this cartoon racist, however if a person is black, the person is black. Every other language has adjectives for people, black is an adjective, it's not a racist word but it is fast heading that way.
posted on 29/6/12
comment by Toblerone Boots (U4965)
posted 2 minutes ago
Just by comparison, for the younger members amongst us, here's a clip of a main stream peak time TV sitcom from the 70's, that shows just how what's deemed to be socially acceptable, with regards to 'racist comments' has changed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_gN7zlpnz8
--------------------------------------
Everybody knows we've come on leaps and bounds since the 70's, however we're in danger of bringing it too far, going over the top.
posted on 29/6/12
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
but your view on the cartoon changed. So sometimes people don't understand why what they're saying is racist and instead of taking the time to find out why, they just dismiss it.
It is horrible to have your point dismissed when you can legitimately claim as to why you thin something is inflammatory or offensive. It leaves you bitter and creates even more tension. I think it is our responsibility as individuals to tread the line carefully and not give off the impression that we view a person with disdain due to stereotypes. It really isn't difficult to do but some people immediately take it as an attack on them when they're asked to be more careful.
posted on 29/6/12
Im very anti the French, but is that allowed?
posted on 29/6/12
Everybody knows we've come on leaps and bounds since the 70's, however we're in danger of bringing it too far, going over the top.
---------------------------------------------
That wasn't my point, the reason I posted that, was to show just how perceptions have changed, in terms of using race as 'fair game' in terms of insults (both ways btw) in the same way that hair colour & facial features might be.
posted on 29/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 2 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
but your view on the cartoon changed. So sometimes people don't understand why what they're saying is racist and instead of taking the time to find out why, they just dismiss it.
-------------------------------
My view didn't change. My view is just the same as it was. The only thing that changed is I now understand how some may find it racist. I still think it's wrong that they do but I understand it.
"It is horrible to have your point dismissed when you can legitimately claim as to why you thin something is inflammatory or offensive. It leaves you bitter and creates even more tension."
I agree and it's just as horrible when people claim racism when it's not there which creates tension, bitterness and even racism.
posted on 29/6/12
Did anyone look at that link I posted yesterday - the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil one ?
In brief - four members of the public sector workers’ union produced a leaflet with a cartoon of the 3 wise monkeys on the cover and the caption 'Standing Orders Committee' to claim they were being ignored by an important union committee.
One member of that committee is black and took them to court over the cartoon being racist. My question is why would you identify yourself with something that racists say you?
(The four people won the case as it was found not to be racist.)
posted on 29/6/12
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
I agree and it's just as horrible when people claim racism when it's not there which creates tension, bitterness and even racism.
---
There are always a few that will go to great lengths to be offended, but that doesn't mean that the others should have to suffer because of it. All that you have to do is be careful and open. If someone says I'm being racist and I'm 100% sure they are just being attention seeking, then just walk away from it, if it is obvious everyone else will see it too.
Page 18 of 21
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