If people looking at that cartoon see an ape then they have a problem. I don't see an ape. I see Balotelli depicted as himself with human features, smiling face etc. - and that's what TOOr is getting at. If you see an ape then you're seeing something that just isn't there.
Links to the KK films can be made. A large fictional character on top of an iconic building. Maybe not in the best taste - a bit like the Reina advert but both the insurance firm and the newspaper didn't make racist connections befoe being released or they wouldn't have released them.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
Comment deleted by Article Creator
comment by Cobnob (U12084)
posted 2 minutes ago
Shall we just all agree it was probably unwise?
------------------------------------
I can agree now, having listened to other views, it was a bad idea, as some would definitely have taken the view that it was racist. However I would also say that the cartoonist has a right to do the cartoon and even that his interpretation is a great one and that right shouldn't be taken away because some people see it in their own way and not how it was intended.
bi planes!
Clear biophobia on display if you ask me
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Article Creator
TOOR, that's the problem, there are people out there that will use it against him, unfortunately
The drawing itself maybe innocent, doesn't mean it won't fuel the racists out there.
Phil - if you want to comment, comment on the debate, not on what you think of people contributing to the debate.
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cobnob (U12084)
posted 2 minutes ago
Shall we just all agree it was probably unwise?
------------------------------------
I can agree now, having listened to other views, it was a bad idea, as some would definitely have taken the view that it was racist. However I would also say that the cartoonist has a right to do the cartoon and even that his interpretation is a great one and that right shouldn't be taken away because some people see it in their own way and not how it was intended.
---
It's entirely possible that the illustrator realised that it COULD conceivably be construed as racist, but thought "Sod it, it's not meant as racist, and my message is obvious", which I think is fairly ballsy in a climate where a lot of people seem determined to be offended.
If he didn't mean for it to be racially offensive, then that's the most important thing for me - the "angry Balotelli vs the world" metaphor it conjured up is very apt, and if the artist feels that he should be able to portray it without allegations of racism then I think that's fair enough.
I remember seeing a thread on the old 606 about footballers who look like animals, and 3 things popped into my head:
1) Gareth Bale looking like a monkey in my opinion
2) Chris Samba looking like a gorilla in my opinion.
3) Arshavin looking like a mouse in my opinion.
In the end, I didn't comment on the thread, ostensibly because of the shïtstorm that the Samba bit probably would have caused, but I was struck by the strangeness of the situation I found myself in; feeling like I couldn't make a non-racist remark (it's not Samba's colour that causes him to remind me of a gorilla - indeed, I can't think of another black footballer off-hand who reminds me of a gorilla/monkey, whereas the likes of Bale and Peter Reid remind me of monkeys) because it would have seen me branded a racist.
There's every chance that the artist knew it could be seen as racist, but felt that he shouldn't be restricted by that when the message he was going for wasn't racist.
TOOR, you're the best poster on this site
Delete that
I thought the whole reason in posting this article was to garner the views of others.
It now seems if those views are in conflict with your views you are now choosing to delete them.
TOOR,
Thanks.
The cartoonist depicted Mario as an Ape/Monkey/Gorilla.
Do you think that is correct considering the fines for monkey chants during the tournament
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
posted 3 minutes ago
If people looking at that cartoon see an ape then they have a problem.
---
What would that problem be exactly? That they don't perceive things in exactly the same way as you?
Pâî§Lë¥'š _P䆆ê®ÑëÐ_ÐrÊåm§ (U1541)
posted 1 minute ago
bi planes!
Clear biophobia on display if you ask me
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If you think i'm biophobia from my comment then that means you're
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
However I would also say that the cartoonist has a right to do the cartoon - I agree, but anyone putting anything in the public domain has a duty of care, and they should consider what they make public.
They should also be willing to take criticism and apologise if their work is deemed an issue for some.
The artist and paper appear to have realised how it could be veiwed and have apologised and hopefully will have clearer thought the next time they publish anything.
Agree with Cobnob, never thought I'd say that in a sentence
Dr Seven Grater - Farewell Biscan, we're all Igor Beavers. (U13441)
In the end, I didn't comment on the thread, ostensibly because of the shïtstorm that the Samba bit probably would have caused, but I was struck by the strangeness of the situation I found myself in; feeling like I couldn't make a non-racist remark (it's not Samba's colour that causes him to remind me of a gorilla - indeed, I can't think of another black footballer off-hand who reminds me of a gorilla/monkey, whereas the likes of Bale and Peter Reid remind me of monkeys) because it would have seen me branded a racist.
----
But I don't see the problem here, it was a dangerous thread and so you steered clear of it. There was nothing to really gain from contributing to it anyway though right? I think that some people (not saying you btw, just using your comment to highlight a point) feel that the 'rules' around racism are supremely oppressive, but let's face it, by just being careful, thoughtful and staying away from anything that could potentially be construed as racist -especially for comedic effect - is no real hardship, and in no way as damaging as racism actually can be and indeed has been in the past.
comment by phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I thought the whole reason in posting this article was to garner the views of others.
It now seems if those views are in conflict with your views you are now choosing to delete them.
-------------------------------
The views of others on the topic, not the views of others on the people contributing to the topic.
I'd like someone to explain how it makes Balotelli look like a monkey. It doesn't.
Dr - I agree with everything you say. Except I thought Arshavin more meerkat like
Balotelli was upset with the picture? He must be a racist then for making the link between himself and the fact that people like to use the racial stereotypes of black people being like Monkeys then.
So, as balotelli is upset by this (no actual proof he is), he artist must automatically be assumed to have had racial intentions with this drawing? This is where the whole race thing is failing because it is other people that are getting offended on behalf of black people and this perpetuates the whole problem.
There seems to be no balance in any argument that involves a black person. If someone perceives the actions as racist then the morally outraged go into overdrive to make everyone aware of how "un-racist" they are.
As for the drawing, those who are making reference to skin colour are way off the mark.
the artist is quite clearly depicting how the british press and english football have hounded balotelli (prob through no fault of his own) in exactly the same way as king king was hunted down in the film. Its actually a pro-balotelli picture, but hey, they ,morally outraged need to highlight their racial tolerance somehow dont they!?
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 3 minutes ago
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
posted 3 minutes ago
If people looking at that cartoon see an ape then they have a problem.
---
What would that problem be exactly? That they don't perceive things in exactly the same way as you?
------------------------------
I think what is meant it, the people who do have a problem, in that they consider it racist. The racist part being the problem.
Pride of the North (U6803)
You'll get used to it <there should be a hobnob smiley>
Sign in if you want to comment
Race Row or...
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posted on 27/6/12
If people looking at that cartoon see an ape then they have a problem. I don't see an ape. I see Balotelli depicted as himself with human features, smiling face etc. - and that's what TOOr is getting at. If you see an ape then you're seeing something that just isn't there.
Links to the KK films can be made. A large fictional character on top of an iconic building. Maybe not in the best taste - a bit like the Reina advert but both the insurance firm and the newspaper didn't make racist connections befoe being released or they wouldn't have released them.
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 27/6/12
comment by Cobnob (U12084)
posted 2 minutes ago
Shall we just all agree it was probably unwise?
------------------------------------
I can agree now, having listened to other views, it was a bad idea, as some would definitely have taken the view that it was racist. However I would also say that the cartoonist has a right to do the cartoon and even that his interpretation is a great one and that right shouldn't be taken away because some people see it in their own way and not how it was intended.
posted on 27/6/12
bi planes!
Clear biophobia on display if you ask me
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 27/6/12
TOOR, that's the problem, there are people out there that will use it against him, unfortunately
The drawing itself maybe innocent, doesn't mean it won't fuel the racists out there.
posted on 27/6/12
Phil - if you want to comment, comment on the debate, not on what you think of people contributing to the debate.
posted on 27/6/12
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cobnob (U12084)
posted 2 minutes ago
Shall we just all agree it was probably unwise?
------------------------------------
I can agree now, having listened to other views, it was a bad idea, as some would definitely have taken the view that it was racist. However I would also say that the cartoonist has a right to do the cartoon and even that his interpretation is a great one and that right shouldn't be taken away because some people see it in their own way and not how it was intended.
---
posted on 27/6/12
It's entirely possible that the illustrator realised that it COULD conceivably be construed as racist, but thought "Sod it, it's not meant as racist, and my message is obvious", which I think is fairly ballsy in a climate where a lot of people seem determined to be offended.
If he didn't mean for it to be racially offensive, then that's the most important thing for me - the "angry Balotelli vs the world" metaphor it conjured up is very apt, and if the artist feels that he should be able to portray it without allegations of racism then I think that's fair enough.
I remember seeing a thread on the old 606 about footballers who look like animals, and 3 things popped into my head:
1) Gareth Bale looking like a monkey in my opinion
2) Chris Samba looking like a gorilla in my opinion.
3) Arshavin looking like a mouse in my opinion.
In the end, I didn't comment on the thread, ostensibly because of the shïtstorm that the Samba bit probably would have caused, but I was struck by the strangeness of the situation I found myself in; feeling like I couldn't make a non-racist remark (it's not Samba's colour that causes him to remind me of a gorilla - indeed, I can't think of another black footballer off-hand who reminds me of a gorilla/monkey, whereas the likes of Bale and Peter Reid remind me of monkeys) because it would have seen me branded a racist.
There's every chance that the artist knew it could be seen as racist, but felt that he shouldn't be restricted by that when the message he was going for wasn't racist.
posted on 27/6/12
TOOR, you're the best poster on this site
Delete that
posted on 27/6/12
I thought the whole reason in posting this article was to garner the views of others.
It now seems if those views are in conflict with your views you are now choosing to delete them.
posted on 27/6/12
TOOR,
Thanks.
The cartoonist depicted Mario as an Ape/Monkey/Gorilla.
Do you think that is correct considering the fines for monkey chants during the tournament
posted on 27/6/12
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
posted 3 minutes ago
If people looking at that cartoon see an ape then they have a problem.
---
What would that problem be exactly? That they don't perceive things in exactly the same way as you?
posted on 27/6/12
Pâî§Lë¥'š _P䆆ê®ÑëÐ_ÐrÊåm§ (U1541)
posted 1 minute ago
bi planes!
Clear biophobia on display if you ask me
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If you think i'm biophobia from my comment then that means you're
posted on 27/6/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/6/12
However I would also say that the cartoonist has a right to do the cartoon - I agree, but anyone putting anything in the public domain has a duty of care, and they should consider what they make public.
They should also be willing to take criticism and apologise if their work is deemed an issue for some.
The artist and paper appear to have realised how it could be veiwed and have apologised and hopefully will have clearer thought the next time they publish anything.
posted on 27/6/12
Agree with Cobnob, never thought I'd say that in a sentence
posted on 27/6/12
Dr Seven Grater - Farewell Biscan, we're all Igor Beavers. (U13441)
In the end, I didn't comment on the thread, ostensibly because of the shïtstorm that the Samba bit probably would have caused, but I was struck by the strangeness of the situation I found myself in; feeling like I couldn't make a non-racist remark (it's not Samba's colour that causes him to remind me of a gorilla - indeed, I can't think of another black footballer off-hand who reminds me of a gorilla/monkey, whereas the likes of Bale and Peter Reid remind me of monkeys) because it would have seen me branded a racist.
----
But I don't see the problem here, it was a dangerous thread and so you steered clear of it. There was nothing to really gain from contributing to it anyway though right? I think that some people (not saying you btw, just using your comment to highlight a point) feel that the 'rules' around racism are supremely oppressive, but let's face it, by just being careful, thoughtful and staying away from anything that could potentially be construed as racist -especially for comedic effect - is no real hardship, and in no way as damaging as racism actually can be and indeed has been in the past.
posted on 27/6/12
comment by phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 2 minutes ago
I thought the whole reason in posting this article was to garner the views of others.
It now seems if those views are in conflict with your views you are now choosing to delete them.
-------------------------------
The views of others on the topic, not the views of others on the people contributing to the topic.
posted on 27/6/12
I'd like someone to explain how it makes Balotelli look like a monkey. It doesn't.
Dr - I agree with everything you say. Except I thought Arshavin more meerkat like
posted on 27/6/12
Balotelli was upset with the picture? He must be a racist then for making the link between himself and the fact that people like to use the racial stereotypes of black people being like Monkeys then.
So, as balotelli is upset by this (no actual proof he is), he artist must automatically be assumed to have had racial intentions with this drawing? This is where the whole race thing is failing because it is other people that are getting offended on behalf of black people and this perpetuates the whole problem.
There seems to be no balance in any argument that involves a black person. If someone perceives the actions as racist then the morally outraged go into overdrive to make everyone aware of how "un-racist" they are.
As for the drawing, those who are making reference to skin colour are way off the mark.
the artist is quite clearly depicting how the british press and english football have hounded balotelli (prob through no fault of his own) in exactly the same way as king king was hunted down in the film. Its actually a pro-balotelli picture, but hey, they ,morally outraged need to highlight their racial tolerance somehow dont they!?
posted on 27/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 3 minutes ago
johnsonsbaby (U10461)
posted 3 minutes ago
If people looking at that cartoon see an ape then they have a problem.
---
What would that problem be exactly? That they don't perceive things in exactly the same way as you?
------------------------------
I think what is meant it, the people who do have a problem, in that they consider it racist. The racist part being the problem.
posted on 27/6/12
Pride of the North (U6803)
You'll get used to it <there should be a hobnob smiley>
Page 5 of 21
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