Le Tissier for whatever reason (i dont know to be honest) what a waste of talent he was from an England point of view.
i respect his loyalty to the Saints as that is rare, bit like Shearer i suppose who could have gone to utd, but England never made good use of his talent
unfortunately it will be the golden generation that will get the blame, and i don't think that is the issue, we just used them wrong.
we will still have the same issues when the golden generation have gone, it will just be dif players who will be blamed for lack of us being over hyped by everyone or too much expectations.
until we do what the Germans did and start from scratch again, we will always fail at international level, as we play the game the wrong way.
No sympathy for Scholes. Look at how Gerrard was move left and right wing and as a DM but you did not see him have a hissey fit like Scholes did.
Steve McManaman was winning champions leagues for Real Madrid but still found getting ahead of sicknote Darren Anderton was impossible.
Some players just don't make the step up, Le Tiss never did it for England.
Fowler as good as he was for Liverpool never quite clicked at international level, same with Ian Wright. Maybe its a mental thing.
But yes the likes of Carton Palmer and Geoff Thomas should not have got anywhere near the England team.
Who was playing at the time of Le Tessier? There were many better players than him.
Le Tessier liked to play in the hole, Sheringham was a much much better player and he played in the hole. In central midfield? You've got Gazza, Platt, Scholes etc. Not gonna play there. Up front Shearer, Sheringham, Cole, Fowler etc. He was never going to be a first team player. A great player but his position was too specialised and Sheringham was better at it.
No sympathy for Scholes. Look at how Gerrard was move left and right wing and as a DM but you did not see him have a hissey fit like Scholes did.
thats not the point is it, Scholes was/is a top top player that was wasted by England, completly different player from Gerrard.
Scholes gave up because he could see he wasn't being used right. Opted to play longer for united where he would be used properly
thats not the point is it, Scholes was/is a top top player that was wasted by England, completly different player from Gerrard.
===================================
Thats not the point i'm making. He decided to quit after he lost his central midfield slot. Had he not he would have easily got over 100 caps.
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
=================================
Common? Utd fans are making it out that he's been the missing piece of the jigsaw which would have lead to World and Euro glory?
phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 3 minutes ago
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
----------------------
good point for a change Phil,
sadly, we want to hope not too many players from an international point of view share that opinion
unless they are over rated of course, and shouldn't be playing in the first place.
Le Tiss was a throw back really.
A Rodney Marsh, Tony Currie.
Those types of player don't play top division football anymore, in fact they are probably not even in league football because they didn't take take the game seriously enough to make it today.
We are just not producing footballers who are technically gifted above every other attribute.
It's all about stamina, speed, being vocal and aggressive.
comment by jenners (U10869)
posted 7 minutes ago
phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 3 minutes ago
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
----------------------
good point for a change Phil,
sadly, we want to hope not too many players from an international point of view share that opinion
unless they are over rated of course, and shouldn't be playing in the first place.
----------------------------
Not a good point at all. Players should be privileged to play for their country, no matter how much they are winning. Look at Northern Ireland and many other teams around the world who struggle to even win a match.
Quite right TOOR, it's not a good thing that players are happy not to play for England.
But instead of castigating those players, we should be looking at WHY players don't want to play for England anymore, and correct the common themes.
In the last decade it has become common to 'retire' from International football, yet we don't appear to have done anything to address why that is happening, so that future players will not join the club.
ok,
sorry, should have been more clear
i just meant in the way a lot of players choose not to play for their countries any more to prolong their club careers, that needs to be addressed.
He was right in the sense that he probably wouldn't lose any sleep over not playing for England, as he has more to offer his club who incidentally pay his wages, maybe that is another issue that needs addressing?
5 stars. Enough of the average workhorses like Milner, Barry and Downing. Flair players are who we should be encouraging. Your Johnson's and Lennon's. They may not be to Spain's standard but they have at least more about them on the ball.
Not a good point at all. Players should be privileged to play for their country, no matter how much they are winning. Look at Northern Ireland and many other teams around the world who struggle to even win a match.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We don't do that bad thats its a struggle to win a single match. Worthington destroyed a good system we had going!
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U172
Some players who were born in Northern Ireland chose to play for Southern Ireland that's more of a kick in the teeth than simply deciding to retire early from international football like Scholes and Carragher have done
Some players who were born in Northern Ireland chose to play for Southern Ireland that's more of a kick in the teeth than simply deciding to retire early from international football like Scholes and Carragher have done
---------------------------------------------------------
Like a scot just turning round and playing for England
comment by gawasoldier1984 (U2134)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Not a good point at all. Players should be privileged to play for their country, no matter how much they are winning. Look at Northern Ireland and many other teams around the world who struggle to even win a match.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We don't do that bad thats its a struggle to win a single match. Worthington destroyed a good system we had going!
-----------------------------------
The problem is not the system but the players. Our goalscorer who had been outstanding, declined. We were then left with no goalscorers. Players who have normally came out of nowhere stopped and even some elected to play for ROI. This is the problem.
comment by phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U172
Some players who were born in Northern Ireland chose to play for Southern Ireland that's more of a kick in the teeth than simply deciding to retire early from international football like Scholes and Carragher have done
------------------------------
If I were a catholic and I saw how Neil Lennon was treated, I'd probably opt to play for ROI also.
Lennon is not a flair player Spurtle2.
Pace is not flair.
He is very quick, but his technical ability is no better than those who were selected.
Johnson is more of a flair player, but even he is not that technical.
We just don't produce enough technical players.
Neil lennon problems where 12 years ago. Times have changed at windsor park.
Yes they were twelve years ago and since then players have opted to play for ROI and I'm sure in no small part due to the treatment of Lennon.
that only started 4 or 5 years ago long after they ifa had been awarded for their efforts at turning windsor park around.
The players have only switched when a loophole was found due to the Good Friday agreement allowing them to do so. The FAI only ask catholic players to represent ROI.
comment by gawasoldier1984 (U2134)
posted 10 minutes ago
that only started 4 or 5 years ago long after they ifa had been awarded for their efforts at turning windsor park around.
The players have only switched when a loophole was found due to the Good Friday agreement allowing them to do so. The FAI only ask catholic players to represent ROI.
--------------------------------
Yes I know all this and for the third time, I'm sure it's in no small part due to the treatment of Lennon.
Sign in if you want to comment
The State of England
Page 1 of 2
posted on 28/6/12
Le Tissier for whatever reason (i dont know to be honest) what a waste of talent he was from an England point of view.
i respect his loyalty to the Saints as that is rare, bit like Shearer i suppose who could have gone to utd, but England never made good use of his talent
unfortunately it will be the golden generation that will get the blame, and i don't think that is the issue, we just used them wrong.
we will still have the same issues when the golden generation have gone, it will just be dif players who will be blamed for lack of us being over hyped by everyone or too much expectations.
until we do what the Germans did and start from scratch again, we will always fail at international level, as we play the game the wrong way.
posted on 28/6/12
No sympathy for Scholes. Look at how Gerrard was move left and right wing and as a DM but you did not see him have a hissey fit like Scholes did.
Steve McManaman was winning champions leagues for Real Madrid but still found getting ahead of sicknote Darren Anderton was impossible.
posted on 28/6/12
Some players just don't make the step up, Le Tiss never did it for England.
Fowler as good as he was for Liverpool never quite clicked at international level, same with Ian Wright. Maybe its a mental thing.
But yes the likes of Carton Palmer and Geoff Thomas should not have got anywhere near the England team.
posted on 28/6/12
Who was playing at the time of Le Tessier? There were many better players than him.
Le Tessier liked to play in the hole, Sheringham was a much much better player and he played in the hole. In central midfield? You've got Gazza, Platt, Scholes etc. Not gonna play there. Up front Shearer, Sheringham, Cole, Fowler etc. He was never going to be a first team player. A great player but his position was too specialised and Sheringham was better at it.
posted on 28/6/12
No sympathy for Scholes. Look at how Gerrard was move left and right wing and as a DM but you did not see him have a hissey fit like Scholes did.
thats not the point is it, Scholes was/is a top top player that was wasted by England, completly different player from Gerrard.
posted on 28/6/12
Scholes gave up because he could see he wasn't being used right. Opted to play longer for united where he would be used properly
posted on 28/6/12
thats not the point is it, Scholes was/is a top top player that was wasted by England, completly different player from Gerrard.
===================================
Thats not the point i'm making. He decided to quit after he lost his central midfield slot. Had he not he would have easily got over 100 caps.
posted on 28/6/12
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
posted on 28/6/12
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
=================================
Common? Utd fans are making it out that he's been the missing piece of the jigsaw which would have lead to World and Euro glory?
posted on 28/6/12
phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 3 minutes ago
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
----------------------
good point for a change Phil,
sadly, we want to hope not too many players from an international point of view share that opinion
unless they are over rated of course, and shouldn't be playing in the first place.
posted on 28/6/12
Le Tiss was a throw back really.
A Rodney Marsh, Tony Currie.
Those types of player don't play top division football anymore, in fact they are probably not even in league football because they didn't take take the game seriously enough to make it today.
We are just not producing footballers who are technically gifted above every other attribute.
It's all about stamina, speed, being vocal and aggressive.
posted on 28/6/12
comment by jenners (U10869)
posted 7 minutes ago
phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 3 minutes ago
Can't see Scholes losing any sleep over the fact he could have extended his international career by 6-8 years to still end up winning nothing
----------------------
good point for a change Phil,
sadly, we want to hope not too many players from an international point of view share that opinion
unless they are over rated of course, and shouldn't be playing in the first place.
----------------------------
Not a good point at all. Players should be privileged to play for their country, no matter how much they are winning. Look at Northern Ireland and many other teams around the world who struggle to even win a match.
posted on 28/6/12
Quite right TOOR, it's not a good thing that players are happy not to play for England.
But instead of castigating those players, we should be looking at WHY players don't want to play for England anymore, and correct the common themes.
In the last decade it has become common to 'retire' from International football, yet we don't appear to have done anything to address why that is happening, so that future players will not join the club.
posted on 28/6/12
ok,
sorry, should have been more clear
i just meant in the way a lot of players choose not to play for their countries any more to prolong their club careers, that needs to be addressed.
He was right in the sense that he probably wouldn't lose any sleep over not playing for England, as he has more to offer his club who incidentally pay his wages, maybe that is another issue that needs addressing?
posted on 28/6/12
5 stars. Enough of the average workhorses like Milner, Barry and Downing. Flair players are who we should be encouraging. Your Johnson's and Lennon's. They may not be to Spain's standard but they have at least more about them on the ball.
posted on 28/6/12
Not a good point at all. Players should be privileged to play for their country, no matter how much they are winning. Look at Northern Ireland and many other teams around the world who struggle to even win a match.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We don't do that bad thats its a struggle to win a single match. Worthington destroyed a good system we had going!
posted on 28/6/12
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U172
Some players who were born in Northern Ireland chose to play for Southern Ireland that's more of a kick in the teeth than simply deciding to retire early from international football like Scholes and Carragher have done
posted on 28/6/12
Some players who were born in Northern Ireland chose to play for Southern Ireland that's more of a kick in the teeth than simply deciding to retire early from international football like Scholes and Carragher have done
---------------------------------------------------------
Like a scot just turning round and playing for England
posted on 28/6/12
comment by gawasoldier1984 (U2134)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Not a good point at all. Players should be privileged to play for their country, no matter how much they are winning. Look at Northern Ireland and many other teams around the world who struggle to even win a match.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We don't do that bad thats its a struggle to win a single match. Worthington destroyed a good system we had going!
-----------------------------------
The problem is not the system but the players. Our goalscorer who had been outstanding, declined. We were then left with no goalscorers. Players who have normally came out of nowhere stopped and even some elected to play for ROI. This is the problem.
posted on 28/6/12
comment by phil neville has three left feet (U13806)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U172
Some players who were born in Northern Ireland chose to play for Southern Ireland that's more of a kick in the teeth than simply deciding to retire early from international football like Scholes and Carragher have done
------------------------------
If I were a catholic and I saw how Neil Lennon was treated, I'd probably opt to play for ROI also.
posted on 28/6/12
Lennon is not a flair player Spurtle2.
Pace is not flair.
He is very quick, but his technical ability is no better than those who were selected.
Johnson is more of a flair player, but even he is not that technical.
We just don't produce enough technical players.
posted on 28/6/12
Neil lennon problems where 12 years ago. Times have changed at windsor park.
posted on 28/6/12
Yes they were twelve years ago and since then players have opted to play for ROI and I'm sure in no small part due to the treatment of Lennon.
posted on 29/6/12
that only started 4 or 5 years ago long after they ifa had been awarded for their efforts at turning windsor park around.
The players have only switched when a loophole was found due to the Good Friday agreement allowing them to do so. The FAI only ask catholic players to represent ROI.
posted on 29/6/12
comment by gawasoldier1984 (U2134)
posted 10 minutes ago
that only started 4 or 5 years ago long after they ifa had been awarded for their efforts at turning windsor park around.
The players have only switched when a loophole was found due to the Good Friday agreement allowing them to do so. The FAI only ask catholic players to represent ROI.
--------------------------------
Yes I know all this and for the third time, I'm sure it's in no small part due to the treatment of Lennon.
Page 1 of 2