The thing SB, it's not so much about being proven wrong or right...GP and I (and maybe rotla) simply could see that Federer had not been swinging his racquet as freely as prior Madrid.

It was not a question of being right or wrong. I really thought it was something with the groin muscle (up to mid FO) but there I was wrong...not far though as it was the lower back as GP had anticipitated.

Likewise I am 100% certain that Federer was not quite the same player in the 3 last sets of his 1/4F last year.

Only now does he say his back has been playing up all along in his career.

well i am now ill from working at wimby .
may miss out on my loyalty bonus .
but at least i can watch lots of tennis and the tdf and not work 14 hours a day come on feds!

Leeds,

we all want to know WAS IT WORTH IT?

c'mon, have a paracetamol and a hot drink and then write us a nice story of all the things you were able to see there and we were not

Summerblues, the point about Tenez not listening to other people's point of view and therefore having the ability to admit he is wrong is the reason why its hdd to have a debate with him without him resorting to something personal like calling you an idiot because you don't share his view.

I asked Tenez at the time if he was a tennis pro or a physio, as he was so instant there was an injury that 99% of other people did not see, and he seemed to mention this every other post.

His answer was no.

Do you think tennis pros and health professionals are more qualified to spot issues in a players game than someone who isn't?

That isn't to say that any of us can't have some insight that someone else can miss, but when pros watching him regularly say they don't think there's a problem and when they and fed are asked and all say there isn't a problem, I tend to go with those pros thoughts.

After Tenez's comments I checked with some of the performance cocaches I worked with and even asked Mark Petchey, none of them think Fed has carried an injury.

Any pro on tour at any one time will rarely be 100% fit.

I bet you Murray's ankle isn't as flexible as he'd like for example. I'm sure that is no different with some part of Fed's physique.

However, these are things you can still play with, still last 5 sets, still stretch for balls, still serve at your regular serving speed, all things that Fed has done since Madrid.

Ask anyone with back pain, nitb seems to have suffered from it...when you have it, you cannot stretch, you cannot serve you cannot play 5 sets, certainly at least without grimacing for all the cameras and world to see.

The moment that did happen for Fed v Malisse, it was of course there for all to see, his serve speed dropped 10% and he couldn't move (something we had not seen before) and the pros picked up on it right away, but having not been there before and with fed saying he had no problems before and this injury was sudden and a shock it spur fantasy and conjecture to assume otherwise.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to brand others stupid for expressing theirs is out of order and one of the reasons I decided to filter Tenez, those sorts of comments add no value to my experience of ja606.

Jonty,

I'm no physio, doctor , not even a professional athlete, but have played enough sport and suffered from various injuries (incl bad back), so I do know what I'm talking about.
Athough I have no backache any more, I do get an uncomfortable feeling if I'm the draft or cold weather.

I can play in those conditions, but not for long, as the condition does not go away until I get out of the cold.

So I know exactly what Fed meant when he mentioned the cold wind.

Another thing is that people take the word "injury" too strongly. Injury can be stg small as the beginning of shinsplints which doesn't hamper you at all but could in the long run (and you know it so it can affect you mentally during play, although not likely),
or it can be a ruptured tendon or that needs surgery, or a muscle tear that needs weeks of rest.

Various injuries do various things, some you can play thorugh some you can't.

I know it irks you that Tenez mentions those little injuries and you see them as his excusing Fed's losses, but just take it for what it is He is a fan and follows him very closely and can notice more details about him because of that.
Just like I can notice every little change and nuance in Nole's play or demeanor.
There is no point in arguing in those areas, they are fan's privilege.
that's why it's great to have passionate fans of individual players in one place, you can glean a lot more from a close fan than just a safe, casual one that regurgitates what media serve up.
Most people here are passionate about tennis and everyone brings something unique and that's the beauty of a forum.
Nobody should be here to prove that their daddy is the strongest, because we all know that everyone's dad is the strongest to his own child.

Fair comments nitb, especially regarding different interpretation on how one defines an injury.

Tell me, how would you feel if when expressing your opinion you were called an idiot, or that you were stupid for liking Nole because of a particular reason?

I don't always agree with everything I read here, but stand up for people's right to express their opinion, even if it's contrary to mine.

nitb here is a decent insight.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18689674
some of these guys ive worked with!
the guy who yelled bucket! and chris thomas is one of my supervisors.
i have done the dreaded 'bowl sweep' and its knackering i dread it! way prefer doing bins :P

I have been called worse in the past, even a wife-beater once and have developed very thick skin.
People say things and are judged by what they say.

Tell me, how would you feel if when expressing your opinion you were called an idiot, or that you were stupid for liking Nole because of a particular reason?
----------------------------------------------------
It will infuriate me.

I never called anyone an idiot because he expressed his opinion. SB and many other posters did not believe in Federer having an impediment and were never treated badly. We discussed and enjoyed the discussion.

You came with up with this "lying" stupid argument and from there it went downhill. Ask yourself why the discussion went the wrong route with you but no other sensible posters.

Oh Leeds, that's terrible, people are pigs leaving that junk...you see them everywhere, leaving tissues and empty water bottles around gyms, too, can't stand it personally!
O2 is also a right mess, I can assure you I never left anything, carried my apple cores in my bag right to the bin at Paddington

Anway, give us some of the things you 've actually seen DURING the matches, any anecdotes?

People say things and are judged by what they say.
-----------
They should be yes.

Leeds good link, I like the coverage the BBC give the event so you get to see other sides of it.

O2 is also a right mess, I can assure you I never left anything,
------------------------------------
Not even an umbrella?


I am guilty of leaving the pimm glass under my seat. That was probably mine on the clip!

Well I didn't bring one to Wimbers, did I ....

yee its not the best 2bh and its a bit annoying that we have to wait until the end of play to do the glass bins which makes us leave at least 30mins after play ends and on saturday that meant finishing at 11.40.

did you acutally get to see any tennis Leeds

yes quite a decent amount nitb.
bit of feds finally, ferrer, djoko twice, tsonga roddick. but just not for long enough!
at least i can watch today as a nervous wreck over feds

what were your impressions of those players close-up?

i thought tsonga on the day looked the most impressive. Ferrer surprised me on the grass that is now just gra of grass :P. just love the place though, next year will be ma last working here i tink.
wish i could see tennis every single day!!!

what, nothing on Nole, you rascal!