"This transfer is all rather well linked in with Tom Glick leaving, has anyone else noticed this year that there is no open offer for Season Ticket refunds like last year?"
Colbi, it's a legal requirement.
Its about time 666 said something that made one of us laugh even if it is under his false identity.
Come on 666, I know you can do better than that. You used to be a good sport before all of the spankings took their toll.
I know, what about if I refrain from pulling the rug out from underneath you for a while so you can nearly get back to your old witty self?
Rapsta Ram
Yes, you make valid points.But I think Shackell is not like Savage, 'age shall wither him', and we would have probably got consistent service out of him. This is an intelligent player who uses his know-how and experience, not a box to box midfielder whose game is based on stamina.
Using your criteria, you're right paying £2m for him at 29 - if it had been the other way round - would have raised eyebrows and yet we paid £1m in 2006 for a 30 year old striker, Steve Howard, who helped more than anyone to get us promoted.
I think Shackell brings more to a team and Burnley are paying for this professionalism. I also think defenders like Shackell at this level are not readily available & at such fees.
Finally I don't think Clough agreed to the sale out of choice. Shackell's interview following the move suggests 'things behind the scenes' and that it was done for money. We have plenty of time to find a replacement, very true. So did we when we sold Hulse, admittedly on deadline day in August, but only managed to sign permanent replacements in February.
I agree about perspective/sense of proportion, this is football not Syria, but it's the dishonesty that grates. Glick went on record that Shackell would not be sold.
CapnBob, I havent mentioned GSE in this post. I've just stated there's a) an over-reaction to an average player leaving and b) people dont know the reasons behind both Shackell being selected for sale and Davies being transfer-listed.
Whilst Shackell was an ever-present, his only actual quality was jumping/heading. His tackling and pace were suspect, his ability on the ball distinctly average and his contribution consistently 6/10. I recommend some people look at some of the goals conceded last season for a starter.
i agree with mostyn, average player yes,but he was one of the most consistant and best players we had last season,it'll be interesting who he will be replaced with.
mostyn im afraid i dont agree i havent seen much better in recent years...
Barker as good
Mawene?
Huddlestone?
Riggott?
Good analysis, Mostyn, but I thought you were describing Dean Leacock, there.
Mostyn, you see what you want to see. Now why do you think our defence improved last season including players around Shackell? Who was ever present, the common factor in a defence that suffered frequent disruption? If Shackell is as so average as you seem to think, then what or who improved our defence? Better protection from Bryson, yes, but who or what then?
Judging by the reaction of fans of other clubs (Forest & Burnley) and the number of other clubs rumoured to be interested in the player, I think Shackell is a good defender at THIS level, which is where we're currently at.
Regarding goals conceded, I think we conceded a lot less last season than in previous. I hope you & I won't have to analyse a lot more next season but I won't be holding my breath.
I have rough idea about Davies being made available, though I'm not entirely certain. It seems to be for 'personal' reasons. These things unfortunately happen. As if everyday life.
As for Glick/GSE, Mostyn, maybe you have been seduced by his charm if it's true you have been for a coffee with him. I doubt Clough wanted to sell Shackell, but money is not forthcoming. I don't believe the transfer tittle regarding Theo Robinson for instance. I think MILF had it right: an agent angling for better terms.
Any genuine interest in Robinson and I'd have bitten Fulham's hand off and taken £1m or whatever, going against my own view about 'continuity' because I think, in the short-term, losing Robinson would not have been as bad a loss & the profit gained. Football is a business.
There is nothing wrong with selling a player under the right circumstances and I don't see Theo improving. But Shackell offered something else and I'd advise you to have a look at some of the Burnley blogs where their fans are very pleased and few have mentioned any of your criticisms.
Who got player of the season from our members on here......http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/104356
Sorry typos
'as in everyday life'
& 'transfer tittle tattle'
I'd also have to agree that Shackell looked like a natural leader on the pitch. Surely it wasn't a coincidence that Roberts and Buxton had their best games in Derby shirts playing alongside him and that O'Brien and Naylor looked comfortable despite playing their first games in professional football.
Once again, having lost a captain in Barker, we really could've done with someone like Shackell.
CapnBob, yes it's true we conceded less goals in gross terms, but we only had 2 more clean sheets and conceded 0.28 goals per game more in the previous season. I'd attribute this small improvement to a variety of Shackell coming in, Fielding coming in for a full seasons, a marked improvement in Gareth Roberts contributions, ROBBIE SAVAGE leaving and being replaced by effective midfielders and playing with 5 in midfield more often whilst focussing on defending and not scoring (our attacking stats worse last season to previous).
As for your second post, you've just highlighted the very thing I expected, hypocrisy. Football is a subjective topic, and whilst you can easily justify selling Theo and not Shackell, others (including Nigel Clough) have the opposite outlook.
Nip up to Belper tonight and ask Nigel Clough 'off the record' if he's upset about Shackell leaving!!
just to add though, I personally would've kept Shackell. He was/is a excellent leader and I admired his commitment on the pitch. Just saying he isnt worth all of this malarkey..
I see your point, Mostyn, but I think fans are upset because Shackell is one of the few experienced players in the team. The real test next season for the young Academy players is the 'second season'. It's asking a lot to give more responsibility to younger players as they are learning their own game. Know how comes through experience.
Teams & clubs shouldn't depend on just one player, but I've seen, in the past, how we've disrupted the balance of a side by selling a key player (Lee Carsley).
But as others have said, I guess we'll just have to wait & see.
Some interesting reading and while I understand where Mostyn and a handful of others are coming from IMO this is the worst piece of business DCFC have done since Huddlestone and even he wasnt as influential to that team as what Shackell was to this team
I suppose we will see 10 games in to the season how good/bad the deal really is. I'm expecting Derby to be in and around the relegation zone most of the season and also IMO exactly where they deserve to be with the ambition that the board and manager show
Mostyn
Didn't see your earlier post. Yes, football is subjective, but our front-line needs overhauling. There was an idea of playing Steve Davies with Theo Robinson, but since S. Davies is seeking a transfer, this idea has been put to one side.
You call it hypocrisy, some might say it is simply good economic sense to cash in on a player bought for peanuts at £200k and to sell him on for £1m. Do you know not see the sense in that? Or do you think it makes more sense to sell your best available defender for £350k profit? It is a question of who is more valuable for the team. If we had sold Robinson (hypothetically) for £1m and used the money from Davies/Maguire, we could have brought in a decent striker or two.
I don't expect GSE to spend millions, but you can take different approaches to solve the same problems. I feel selling Shackell has only created another problem, not solved it.
Our attack needs bolstering, one of the most frequent postings on here is the need for a quality striker. There have been less postings regarding the defence because most fans were happy with it.
I am just trying to be fair, but let's be honest here. Do you think the majority of fans on here would have reacted in such a manner if Theo had been sold instead? I personally doubt it.
Phew, you're a buzy Bob today Bob.
Bushwacker
Just to add, you're right, we'll see within the first few games the impact. We could tell from last season's good start that the defence would be OK - Shackell even scored a goal!
Back to my pop-pickers, Smashie & Nicey, yes, let's have a run down of the Worse Ten Transfers Derby have done including selling Christie & Riggott for £3m after they were offered £5m. No,let's leave it, I'm feeling miserable enough already without being reminded .
Igor
I know, I haven't posted so much for a while, it's just I feel annoyed that just as it looked like we were doing things sensibly, we shoot ourselves in the foot.
Maybe that should be our new club emblem.
Hey bro, its all good fair and balanced as per you.
Oscar Pistorius to replace Glick..?
Fielding
Brayford
Barker
Shackell
Roberts
Green
Bryson
Hendrick
Ward
Davies
Robinson
When I look at that team knowing what we have in reserve a decent left back and striker and we could have possibly pushed for the play offs next season and after Clough came out with, we want to keep this bunch of players together I was quite hopeful.
More fool me I suppose and never again while this board and management are here will I ever get carried away and hopeful
Not sure, but I think Clough and the Board just lost what little support they had left, I am now really worried as we seem to be hopping a group of league 1/youthful lads can be a promotion team, but we will be lucky not to go down.
666 is absolutely spot on with what he says, not going to bother tryin as I couldn't put it better myself!
We are an absolute shambles and I am now convinced Nigel is the same as Tom prrrrrrrr1ck - bull*******
Come on derby fans, do the right thing and don't go! It's now time to make a stand and show we are not putting up with this rubbish anymore!
Sign in if you want to comment
Bad signals !!
Page 3 of 4
posted on 6/7/12
"This transfer is all rather well linked in with Tom Glick leaving, has anyone else noticed this year that there is no open offer for Season Ticket refunds like last year?"
Colbi, it's a legal requirement.
posted on 6/7/12
Its about time 666 said something that made one of us laugh even if it is under his false identity.
Come on 666, I know you can do better than that. You used to be a good sport before all of the spankings took their toll.
I know, what about if I refrain from pulling the rug out from underneath you for a while so you can nearly get back to your old witty self?
posted on 6/7/12
Rapsta Ram
Yes, you make valid points.But I think Shackell is not like Savage, 'age shall wither him', and we would have probably got consistent service out of him. This is an intelligent player who uses his know-how and experience, not a box to box midfielder whose game is based on stamina.
Using your criteria, you're right paying £2m for him at 29 - if it had been the other way round - would have raised eyebrows and yet we paid £1m in 2006 for a 30 year old striker, Steve Howard, who helped more than anyone to get us promoted.
I think Shackell brings more to a team and Burnley are paying for this professionalism. I also think defenders like Shackell at this level are not readily available & at such fees.
Finally I don't think Clough agreed to the sale out of choice. Shackell's interview following the move suggests 'things behind the scenes' and that it was done for money. We have plenty of time to find a replacement, very true. So did we when we sold Hulse, admittedly on deadline day in August, but only managed to sign permanent replacements in February.
I agree about perspective/sense of proportion, this is football not Syria, but it's the dishonesty that grates. Glick went on record that Shackell would not be sold.
posted on 6/7/12
CapnBob, I havent mentioned GSE in this post. I've just stated there's a) an over-reaction to an average player leaving and b) people dont know the reasons behind both Shackell being selected for sale and Davies being transfer-listed.
Whilst Shackell was an ever-present, his only actual quality was jumping/heading. His tackling and pace were suspect, his ability on the ball distinctly average and his contribution consistently 6/10. I recommend some people look at some of the goals conceded last season for a starter.
posted on 6/7/12
i agree with mostyn, average player yes,but he was one of the most consistant and best players we had last season,it'll be interesting who he will be replaced with.
posted on 6/7/12
mostyn im afraid i dont agree i havent seen much better in recent years...
Barker as good
Mawene?
Huddlestone?
Riggott?
posted on 6/7/12
Good analysis, Mostyn, but I thought you were describing Dean Leacock, there.
Mostyn, you see what you want to see. Now why do you think our defence improved last season including players around Shackell? Who was ever present, the common factor in a defence that suffered frequent disruption? If Shackell is as so average as you seem to think, then what or who improved our defence? Better protection from Bryson, yes, but who or what then?
Judging by the reaction of fans of other clubs (Forest & Burnley) and the number of other clubs rumoured to be interested in the player, I think Shackell is a good defender at THIS level, which is where we're currently at.
Regarding goals conceded, I think we conceded a lot less last season than in previous. I hope you & I won't have to analyse a lot more next season but I won't be holding my breath.
posted on 6/7/12
I have rough idea about Davies being made available, though I'm not entirely certain. It seems to be for 'personal' reasons. These things unfortunately happen. As if everyday life.
As for Glick/GSE, Mostyn, maybe you have been seduced by his charm if it's true you have been for a coffee with him. I doubt Clough wanted to sell Shackell, but money is not forthcoming. I don't believe the transfer tittle regarding Theo Robinson for instance. I think MILF had it right: an agent angling for better terms.
Any genuine interest in Robinson and I'd have bitten Fulham's hand off and taken £1m or whatever, going against my own view about 'continuity' because I think, in the short-term, losing Robinson would not have been as bad a loss & the profit gained. Football is a business.
There is nothing wrong with selling a player under the right circumstances and I don't see Theo improving. But Shackell offered something else and I'd advise you to have a look at some of the Burnley blogs where their fans are very pleased and few have mentioned any of your criticisms.
posted on 6/7/12
Who got player of the season from our members on here......http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/104356
posted on 6/7/12
Sorry typos
'as in everyday life'
& 'transfer tittle tattle'
posted on 6/7/12
I'd also have to agree that Shackell looked like a natural leader on the pitch. Surely it wasn't a coincidence that Roberts and Buxton had their best games in Derby shirts playing alongside him and that O'Brien and Naylor looked comfortable despite playing their first games in professional football.
Once again, having lost a captain in Barker, we really could've done with someone like Shackell.
posted on 6/7/12
CapnBob, yes it's true we conceded less goals in gross terms, but we only had 2 more clean sheets and conceded 0.28 goals per game more in the previous season. I'd attribute this small improvement to a variety of Shackell coming in, Fielding coming in for a full seasons, a marked improvement in Gareth Roberts contributions, ROBBIE SAVAGE leaving and being replaced by effective midfielders and playing with 5 in midfield more often whilst focussing on defending and not scoring (our attacking stats worse last season to previous).
As for your second post, you've just highlighted the very thing I expected, hypocrisy. Football is a subjective topic, and whilst you can easily justify selling Theo and not Shackell, others (including Nigel Clough) have the opposite outlook.
Nip up to Belper tonight and ask Nigel Clough 'off the record' if he's upset about Shackell leaving!!
posted on 6/7/12
just to add though, I personally would've kept Shackell. He was/is a excellent leader and I admired his commitment on the pitch. Just saying he isnt worth all of this malarkey..
posted on 6/7/12
I see your point, Mostyn, but I think fans are upset because Shackell is one of the few experienced players in the team. The real test next season for the young Academy players is the 'second season'. It's asking a lot to give more responsibility to younger players as they are learning their own game. Know how comes through experience.
Teams & clubs shouldn't depend on just one player, but I've seen, in the past, how we've disrupted the balance of a side by selling a key player (Lee Carsley).
But as others have said, I guess we'll just have to wait & see.
posted on 6/7/12
Some interesting reading and while I understand where Mostyn and a handful of others are coming from IMO this is the worst piece of business DCFC have done since Huddlestone and even he wasnt as influential to that team as what Shackell was to this team
I suppose we will see 10 games in to the season how good/bad the deal really is. I'm expecting Derby to be in and around the relegation zone most of the season and also IMO exactly where they deserve to be with the ambition that the board and manager show
posted on 6/7/12
Mostyn
Didn't see your earlier post. Yes, football is subjective, but our front-line needs overhauling. There was an idea of playing Steve Davies with Theo Robinson, but since S. Davies is seeking a transfer, this idea has been put to one side.
You call it hypocrisy, some might say it is simply good economic sense to cash in on a player bought for peanuts at £200k and to sell him on for £1m. Do you know not see the sense in that? Or do you think it makes more sense to sell your best available defender for £350k profit? It is a question of who is more valuable for the team. If we had sold Robinson (hypothetically) for £1m and used the money from Davies/Maguire, we could have brought in a decent striker or two.
I don't expect GSE to spend millions, but you can take different approaches to solve the same problems. I feel selling Shackell has only created another problem, not solved it.
Our attack needs bolstering, one of the most frequent postings on here is the need for a quality striker. There have been less postings regarding the defence because most fans were happy with it.
I am just trying to be fair, but let's be honest here. Do you think the majority of fans on here would have reacted in such a manner if Theo had been sold instead? I personally doubt it.
posted on 6/7/12
Phew, you're a buzy Bob today Bob.
posted on 6/7/12
Bushwacker
Just to add, you're right, we'll see within the first few games the impact. We could tell from last season's good start that the defence would be OK - Shackell even scored a goal!
Back to my pop-pickers, Smashie & Nicey, yes, let's have a run down of the Worse Ten Transfers Derby have done including selling Christie & Riggott for £3m after they were offered £5m. No,let's leave it, I'm feeling miserable enough already without being reminded .
posted on 6/7/12
Igor
I know, I haven't posted so much for a while, it's just I feel annoyed that just as it looked like we were doing things sensibly, we shoot ourselves in the foot.
Maybe that should be our new club emblem.
posted on 6/7/12
Hey bro, its all good fair and balanced as per you.
posted on 6/7/12
Cheers, Igor
posted on 6/7/12
Oscar Pistorius to replace Glick..?
posted on 6/7/12
Fielding
Brayford
Barker
Shackell
Roberts
Green
Bryson
Hendrick
Ward
Davies
Robinson
When I look at that team knowing what we have in reserve a decent left back and striker and we could have possibly pushed for the play offs next season and after Clough came out with, we want to keep this bunch of players together I was quite hopeful.
More fool me I suppose and never again while this board and management are here will I ever get carried away and hopeful
posted on 6/7/12
Not sure, but I think Clough and the Board just lost what little support they had left, I am now really worried as we seem to be hopping a group of league 1/youthful lads can be a promotion team, but we will be lucky not to go down.
posted on 6/7/12
666 is absolutely spot on with what he says, not going to bother tryin as I couldn't put it better myself!
We are an absolute shambles and I am now convinced Nigel is the same as Tom prrrrrrrr1ck - bull*******
Come on derby fans, do the right thing and don't go! It's now time to make a stand and show we are not putting up with this rubbish anymore!
Page 3 of 4