Both brilliant players and are unfairly treated on these boards.

Scholes still has the ball retention, vision, passing etc to his game, it's just his energy levels that have dipped. Amazing midfielder.

Giggs, still has it, but has probably tried too much when in the cm role, however he's still a great option to have. Just not so much as a starter now.

Both United greats

I have no problem with them staying if they are going to be squad players.

But if we were to kick of the season tomorrow, Scholes would probably be in our starting line-up. Thats a problem, and it raises the question, are we not signing a much needed CM because Fergie is still relying on Giggs and Scholes?

If so, I would prefer it if they left and we moved on.

And sorry if I sounded a bit blunt with my last sentence there. Scholes is my favourtie football player of all time, I have nothing but respect for him. But there is no room for sentimentality.

I agree we need a cm to take over from him, but sentimentality is way to strong. He's still a brilliant player to have available.

"He's still a brilliant player to have available."

Agreed. But he shouldnt be starting games. And it seems that Fergie will not stop starting him until he leaves.

bloodred - TBH who knows we only can offer thoughts and opinions.

For me I dont think the 2 would be starting options if we had ando/clev/fletch fit and importantly up to speed.

Maybe in certain games against certain teams but that is fair enough IMO as thats tactics and teh advantage of having them as options.

I think this season was a bit weird in terms of injuries and what didnt help was there was little room for experimentation

He played a massive part in us finishing on level points, it was actually the games he didn't start that we dropped points

pride - I dont agree necessarily with sentimentality but I think people cannot see beyond the age.

I personally think Scholes and giggs would walk into most teams in the prem even today

as options on the bench its a no brainer for me. I think being used a lot this past season was enforced and due to other factors to an extent

I agree with Pride of the North, there is no room for sentimentality. Scholes remains a genius with a football, but he is not getting any younger and I think Giggs started to show his age last season, I think maybe too much was asked of him as he is pushing 40. Options for the bench for sure, but we are sorely lacking in central midfield and everyone knows it.

RedReason, may have read it wrong, but it wasn;t me saying he was played for sentimentality, I was saying that word is way to strong.

He's playing because he's been good enough too

baz, you may want to reword that

what people also seem to forget in regards to scholes is the fact he pretty much had 7 months off before coming back last season.

he was lagging after 60 minutes after having that amount of time off, given that he doesnt have that luxury, and the fact he is also a year older, things might not be as good next season.

Scholes was actually worse for united in the season he retired than he was last year, which is why he retired, because he couldnt handle a full season anymore.

Dunno about most teams - QPR would probably have them though.

I agree that they're fantastic squad players and brilliant options from the bench, and their experience is very important. However, the problem I have is that there is still so much reliance on them and they're often more than squad players.

Giggs always starts in the important games, and I understand that Fergie does this due to his experience, but I just don't think Giggs should be starting important games anymore. He's a much better option from the bench.

Scholes was fantastic last season and rightly so started many games. I just hope we sign another cm to take some of the pressure off him. Because he's still our best midfielder by a mile, but can only last 60 minutes.

Giggs playing so many games, especially in cm, is my main problem with them as he can be a liability.

i think the confusion maybe 2 different arguments

I am just saying as options on the bench largely, give or take the odd games where tactically it makes sense

imagine we are playing city and ando goes down injured. you look to the bench and have gibbo, pogba and scholes. scholes all day for me

All i can say fellas is that there was talk of scholes for england and giggs is captaining team GB

that kind of puts the SAF and sentimentality argument to bed somewhat

imagine we are playing city and ando goes down injured. you look to the bench and have gibbo, pogba and scholes. scholes all day for me
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I agree.

The problem we've had though is that Scholes and Giggs have been starting against Barca, City, Chelsea et al.

With this being Scholes final season, I think we would be best finding a cm replacement now, as a season would allow him to bed in and we still have Scholes as an option.

Whether this will happen though I'm unsure. I've this feeling we won't buy a cm.

DTKF - I do think the starting of the 2 last season was enforced to a large degree. I do think thta wont be the norm if all are fit. I do expect them to start some games but nowhere near as much. In fact I can see them having a greater role in the cup games with the youngsters to provide experience and as subs in the main games.

I honestly wouldnt be that bothered about our midfield if (and I say IF) ando and clev are expected to play bigger roles. I recall SAF saying last season was to be Ando's break out due to unfortunate injuries and then he gets injured again. IF fit ando can make it at UTD imo.

I think we will by a cm but it will probably be a 'potential' who will then learn of the the likes of giggs/scholes and have time to bed in.

I agree to a certain extent, but I feel when push comes to shove, Fergie would rather play Giggs and Scholes in our biggest games rather than Anderson or Cleverly.

To be fair, I can see the logic in it, as along with Carrick they're our only established midfielders (even though I think Giggs is terrible in cm, and like playing with a man less).

I would be more confident knowing we had a fairly established cm in the squad that can play with/and rotate with Scholes and Carrick for the starting berths (especially in big games), with Anderson and Cleverly needing to prove themselves when fit.

The problem I see is that as much potential as these two have, they seem to be injured a lot, and not capable of cementing a place in the midfield.

That's a real worry for me, and why I'd love to get a top cm this summer.

I don't see why anyone can blame Giggs and Scholes for any of our midfield problems. Scholes already retired last season but had to come out of retirement when Cleverley and Anderson kept getting injured. The second he walked into the side we won something like 90% of our games from then until the end of the season.
Giggs was also a squad player last season and was forced into the action when others were injured.

They are treated so unfairly by the more ruthless members of this board. Blame Anderson and Cleverley (if you have to stretch REALLY hard to blame someone) for getting injured. Or just realise that shat happens and we're lucky to have 2 players in Giggs and Scholes who've been able to step in when needed and do a job and I can name countless times last season where Giggs and Scholes actually, guess what, played well for us.
Before anyone says that Pogba should have started more games, none of us really know why he didn't. So don't blame Giggs and Scholes for that. He showed towards the end just what a bad attitude he had.

I don't think you can blame Giggs and Scholes for playing so many games of course. But we can blame the manager for not having an adequate midfield and choosing to play Giggs in cm in matches where he's clearly out of his depth - Carrick and Giggs vs Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.

Both are fantastic squad players, but surely it's reasonable to question why we are so reliant on a 38 and 37 year old?

Yeah, that's my point. We've been extremely lucky to have them when other midfield players (Fletcher, Anderson and Cleverley) have been injured. Imagine if Scholes hadn't come out of retirement last season? I can promise you we wouldn't have pushed City so far.

Sir Alex, for whatever reason (and I think we all know why) won't buy a new midfielder of the ilk that we need. There are only 3 midfielders on the market that will allow us to compete with City.
Sneijder, Modric and Martinez. And we can't afford them because of these STUPID interest fees.

There are only 3 midfielders on the market that will allow us to compete with City.
Sneijder, Modric and Martinez. And we can't afford them because of these STUPID interest fees.
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Really?
Sneijder who has been cack for the last couple of seasons.
modric who is one of those players who noone is sure of, and martinez wants to play centre back.

I disagree that finance is holding us back from improving the midfield, Sir Alex is.

We spent large sums of cash last season on Young, Jones and De Gea, all positions that weren't in need of strengthening as much as cm.

Arteta cost Arsenal £10 million. He would have vastly improved our cm. We competed with City despite all our injures, so those aren't the only 3 players that will make us compete. We already are. Problem is that there's such an obvious area in need of improvement.

And we can't afford them because of these STUPID interest fees.
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didnt we have a 35 million pound bid accepted for Hazard?? There is obviously money there to be spent onthe right player, it all depends whether Fergie thinks we are desperate for a midfielder.