we won't be the next Man City. That is the tongue in cheek thread certain Forest posters have been putting on the message boards. However, we will be able to compete and hopefully rise into the Prem and stay there. Certainly amass more than 11 points in the process.
You can't tell me that you prefer your American backers to ours, can you?
As for fridges?.... It's Kuwait. Bit like saying Brits don't need central heating
Think you'll find the Al Hawasi family started with fridges back in the 60's and have moved onto bigger and greater things since mainly being retail with a presence across Europe, Asia and America.
https://alhasawi.com/
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
It is the Family and not just an individual
I think they realise we are a family club and want to hear the fans and what they have to say.
So far, so good
"It is the Family and not just an individual"
Where's Marlon Brando when you need him?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I think you're blaming Mark Arthur too easily for the summer. Look, we have Glick. These men invariably come in for criticism. Forest's out of contract players should have come to an understanding with the chief exec.
You've allowed players to leave for nothing and will have now to buy/bring in replacements. That's all well and good if the al-Hasawi's are well-to-do. The only other reason I can think of is that the players went to clubs who they knew wanted them rather then wait and be told to leave by a new manager.
But Chambers & Lynch are good enough to have got fixed up somewhere else eventually. Why the hurry when a new board/owners could have offered them something?
Capn Bob, have you ever tried selling a debt? I imagine that if the Kuwaitis had been the type to say "here's, say, £20M please hold me responsible for the £75M your family put into the club and can never get back" they wouldn't stay rich very long.
Come on, LloydX, be realistic. Why do you think ND hadn't been able to sell the club on before? He said so himself. Clubs with a debt are hard to shift. Now if your new owners are so well-to-do, surely they could have paid more than 'nominal fee'. Derby were bought for a pound by the Three Amigos as the club had £23m of debt (yes, the obvious joke is that all you think dcfc worth/like us with fridges).
Debt is difficult to sell on. Well-to-do backers would just pay the going price. The al-Hasiwis saw a good deal; they were able to purchase a football club for a nominal fee, but the caveat is that they are now responsible for its running costs, like the annual shortfall.
They also have the dubious pleasure of dealing with the demands and expectations of thousands of people.
Ah Good! Now we're back to bashing the red dogs not bashing ourselves up. Let normal service resume!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Its not that you've suddenly become a joke club, you've been a joke club for many a year now as were we however we now have ambitious owners with plenty of resources so we're no longer a joke club but unfortunately for you lot you still are very much a JOKE club! Who lose their star players to Burnley hahahaha
Forestlen
Have your owners brought all of Doughty's debt and paid it off as a one off nice donation 'no need to ever pay it back again' present, will your new owners never claim interest on the debts they have taken on and lastly have you managed to turn over a profit suddenly from all of Kuwait buying Forest shirts?
Time bomb - tick - tock - tick - tock.
We maybe a joke but when your boom goes bust, the Garibaldi red might well be the Garibaldi dead.
2Wellies
I don't even know about dcfc's finances, let alone nffc's. I just think it's odd that a supposedly mega-rich family take over a club paying a nominal fee. Both Man CIty & Chelsea were bought outright, debt as well in the case of Chelsea.
A mega-rich owner wouldn't care about £75m debt, they simply pay it off or give the Doughty's their asking price.
Rather, I think a nominal fee helps facilitate a quick sale especially since I would have thought the sale was complicated by probate issues (I assume).
A football club is something most of us dream of owning, but it can turn into a nightmare as Simon Jordan found to his cost. It is a financial morass. The Doughty family haven't even had time to grieve, passing Forest on to a new owner can help them move on & rid them of a complication (and this is not meant as a slur against Forest, it is meant in general).
You seem to know a fair bit more than me though C&b; so in your speculative frame of mind, as we have to wait for the famous press conference on Saturday that will announce Forests' imminent return to the Premiership (again), for the truth.
Would you say they brought it on the cheap, will take responsibility for paying interest on the debts, will invest in the hope that they reach the Premiership at which point they will invest again heavily to stay up at which point the club might start to turn over a profit and payback some of the by then $125-150 million debt?
I would look forward to the rollercoaster if I was a tree but not sure I'd sleep easy at night.
Bob, it's quite simple really and very possible...
The Estate owned a football club, with a debt of £75m (10 years of losses accumulated as a loan)
The Estate don't want to own a football club, but under the instruction of the late Nigel Doughty, are to sell it to the best bidder for NFFC and to write off the debt.
The Estate sell the football club for £1m to a new company owned by El Familia De Al-Hasawi.
The new company has a £1m asset balanced by £1m of share capital.
The new company would then revalue it's asset (NFFC) to its market value (value of the players, academy, etc) @ say £10m.
The newco has the following Balance Sheet (in simple form):-
Assets:
NFFC £10m
Shareholders Funds:
Share Capital £1m
Revaluation Reserve £9m
... and what happens from 10/07/12 onwards we shall all have to wait and see.
---
Clearly this is just an illustration, but hopefully shows you that, if everything that's being said is true (nobody apart from The Estate and The Al-Hasawi's truly know!) it is easily POSSIBLE for #NFFC to have no debt.
W@@@ERS!
2Wellies, I have to pass over the baton & say MILF seems to know more than me. It won't stop me trying to give an opinion!
MILF
Yes, I can see Forest starting debt-free, but ND used to support their annual losses - not that we are to judge after GSE injected £7.7m - and the Doughty family wanted to extricate themselves from future liabilities.
That's how I see the trade-off as a non-business person. Debt free but with the responsibilities passed on to the new owners.
I just think a well-to-do backer would have just bought the club outright, and it wouldn't surprise me if the al-Hasawis are a bit like GSE, business-men who have seen an opportunity to make money on an investment. By getting Forest promoted, say on a £20m budget, and into the PL, they could find it easier to sell the club & get a return (the parachute payments as an inducement).
But as we've seen with GSE, this is a gamble.
Quite possibly, or they could have bought it for £1 on the signed agreement to introduce £75m into the club as equity (shares)... who knows, but why does ANYONE own a football club?
Either for;
a) Profit, or;
b) Pleasure
It could be either of these couldn't it... WE hope it's a) , NFFC fans hope it's b) ... none of us know!
Aaaargh Financial words and numbers head hurting, okay let me know if I've got this right:
Milf's Worst Case Scenario:
Doughty's estate would write off the debt that Forest already have. (Do we have any evidence that says they will or have done this?) Doughty's will would have said give the club to the best bidder. Club revalued and all that fancy stock market stuff allows them effectively 9 million debt from the bank to spend and anything they want to put in out of their own pocket.
However, the club will still be running at a loss so if it takes Forest more than 2 years to go up they will be at least 20 million in debt, still with a decrepit stadium and a big wage bill. Do or die for Forest and Leicester then, miserable medicority for Derby take your pick.
No wellies, by my example they don't have any cash at this stage... how the cash comes in we don't know yet, and won't know for at least 21 months
Worst case scenario - they introduce significant funds via share capital (as this is within FFP as it's not owed back to them by NFFC - eg. Abramovich, Man City's sheikh)
Best case scenario - they introduce no funds and withdraw from football league membership (as the people of Kuwait all love DCFC and hate NFFC with a passion as they have a decrepid old ground, no fans and a manager with a funny accent). Notts City Council burn the stadium down as it's a health hazard to local residents and Al-Hasawi is made mayor of Derby for 2013.
i heard they brought the club for......
2 camels...
2 goats....
and a packet of wine gums.....
I'm failing to spot the sexual innuendo their Dave
Just a quick aside I detect lots of anger towards the financial injustice of corporate football l.t.d at the moment.
If ever anyone is up for a spot of freeing the beautiful game by any means necessary, I might be interested if I can get the time off work.
Ahh clever lad Milf I get you now, didn't think about that share capital loophole malarky.
Will take Best Case Scenario -Good ole Agent Al Hasawi, Al Hasawi's Barmy Amry,
saves me losing my life in an armed struggle too.
Hang on why are nobody buying Derby County shares? The mind boggles.
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Have we now become a bit of a joke club?
Page 2 of 3
posted on 11/7/12
we won't be the next Man City. That is the tongue in cheek thread certain Forest posters have been putting on the message boards. However, we will be able to compete and hopefully rise into the Prem and stay there. Certainly amass more than 11 points in the process.
You can't tell me that you prefer your American backers to ours, can you?
As for fridges?.... It's Kuwait. Bit like saying Brits don't need central heating
posted on 11/7/12
Think you'll find the Al Hawasi family started with fridges back in the 60's and have moved onto bigger and greater things since mainly being retail with a presence across Europe, Asia and America.
https://alhasawi.com/
posted on 11/7/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 11/7/12
It is the Family and not just an individual
I think they realise we are a family club and want to hear the fans and what they have to say.
So far, so good
posted on 11/7/12
"It is the Family and not just an individual"
Where's Marlon Brando when you need him?
posted on 11/7/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 11/7/12
I think you're blaming Mark Arthur too easily for the summer. Look, we have Glick. These men invariably come in for criticism. Forest's out of contract players should have come to an understanding with the chief exec.
You've allowed players to leave for nothing and will have now to buy/bring in replacements. That's all well and good if the al-Hasawi's are well-to-do. The only other reason I can think of is that the players went to clubs who they knew wanted them rather then wait and be told to leave by a new manager.
But Chambers & Lynch are good enough to have got fixed up somewhere else eventually. Why the hurry when a new board/owners could have offered them something?
posted on 11/7/12
Capn Bob, have you ever tried selling a debt? I imagine that if the Kuwaitis had been the type to say "here's, say, £20M please hold me responsible for the £75M your family put into the club and can never get back" they wouldn't stay rich very long.
posted on 11/7/12
Come on, LloydX, be realistic. Why do you think ND hadn't been able to sell the club on before? He said so himself. Clubs with a debt are hard to shift. Now if your new owners are so well-to-do, surely they could have paid more than 'nominal fee'. Derby were bought for a pound by the Three Amigos as the club had £23m of debt (yes, the obvious joke is that all you think dcfc worth/like us with fridges).
Debt is difficult to sell on. Well-to-do backers would just pay the going price. The al-Hasiwis saw a good deal; they were able to purchase a football club for a nominal fee, but the caveat is that they are now responsible for its running costs, like the annual shortfall.
They also have the dubious pleasure of dealing with the demands and expectations of thousands of people.
posted on 11/7/12
Pardon
al-Hasawis
posted on 11/7/12
Ah Good! Now we're back to bashing the red dogs not bashing ourselves up. Let normal service resume!
posted on 11/7/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 11/7/12
Its not that you've suddenly become a joke club, you've been a joke club for many a year now as were we however we now have ambitious owners with plenty of resources so we're no longer a joke club but unfortunately for you lot you still are very much a JOKE club! Who lose their star players to Burnley hahahaha
posted on 11/7/12
Forestlen
Have your owners brought all of Doughty's debt and paid it off as a one off nice donation 'no need to ever pay it back again' present, will your new owners never claim interest on the debts they have taken on and lastly have you managed to turn over a profit suddenly from all of Kuwait buying Forest shirts?
Time bomb - tick - tock - tick - tock.
We maybe a joke but when your boom goes bust, the Garibaldi red might well be the Garibaldi dead.
posted on 11/7/12
2Wellies
I don't even know about dcfc's finances, let alone nffc's. I just think it's odd that a supposedly mega-rich family take over a club paying a nominal fee. Both Man CIty & Chelsea were bought outright, debt as well in the case of Chelsea.
A mega-rich owner wouldn't care about £75m debt, they simply pay it off or give the Doughty's their asking price.
Rather, I think a nominal fee helps facilitate a quick sale especially since I would have thought the sale was complicated by probate issues (I assume).
A football club is something most of us dream of owning, but it can turn into a nightmare as Simon Jordan found to his cost. It is a financial morass. The Doughty family haven't even had time to grieve, passing Forest on to a new owner can help them move on & rid them of a complication (and this is not meant as a slur against Forest, it is meant in general).
posted on 11/7/12
You seem to know a fair bit more than me though C&b; so in your speculative frame of mind, as we have to wait for the famous press conference on Saturday that will announce Forests' imminent return to the Premiership (again), for the truth.
Would you say they brought it on the cheap, will take responsibility for paying interest on the debts, will invest in the hope that they reach the Premiership at which point they will invest again heavily to stay up at which point the club might start to turn over a profit and payback some of the by then $125-150 million debt?
I would look forward to the rollercoaster if I was a tree but not sure I'd sleep easy at night.
posted on 11/7/12
Bob, it's quite simple really and very possible...
The Estate owned a football club, with a debt of £75m (10 years of losses accumulated as a loan)
The Estate don't want to own a football club, but under the instruction of the late Nigel Doughty, are to sell it to the best bidder for NFFC and to write off the debt.
The Estate sell the football club for £1m to a new company owned by El Familia De Al-Hasawi.
The new company has a £1m asset balanced by £1m of share capital.
The new company would then revalue it's asset (NFFC) to its market value (value of the players, academy, etc) @ say £10m.
The newco has the following Balance Sheet (in simple form):-
Assets:
NFFC £10m
Shareholders Funds:
Share Capital £1m
Revaluation Reserve £9m
... and what happens from 10/07/12 onwards we shall all have to wait and see.
---
Clearly this is just an illustration, but hopefully shows you that, if everything that's being said is true (nobody apart from The Estate and The Al-Hasawi's truly know!) it is easily POSSIBLE for #NFFC to have no debt.
W@@@ERS!
posted on 11/7/12
2Wellies, I have to pass over the baton & say MILF seems to know more than me. It won't stop me trying to give an opinion!
MILF
Yes, I can see Forest starting debt-free, but ND used to support their annual losses - not that we are to judge after GSE injected £7.7m - and the Doughty family wanted to extricate themselves from future liabilities.
That's how I see the trade-off as a non-business person. Debt free but with the responsibilities passed on to the new owners.
I just think a well-to-do backer would have just bought the club outright, and it wouldn't surprise me if the al-Hasawis are a bit like GSE, business-men who have seen an opportunity to make money on an investment. By getting Forest promoted, say on a £20m budget, and into the PL, they could find it easier to sell the club & get a return (the parachute payments as an inducement).
But as we've seen with GSE, this is a gamble.
posted on 11/7/12
Quite possibly, or they could have bought it for £1 on the signed agreement to introduce £75m into the club as equity (shares)... who knows, but why does ANYONE own a football club?
Either for;
a) Profit, or;
b) Pleasure
It could be either of these couldn't it... WE hope it's a) , NFFC fans hope it's b) ... none of us know!
posted on 11/7/12
Aaaargh Financial words and numbers head hurting, okay let me know if I've got this right:
Milf's Worst Case Scenario:
Doughty's estate would write off the debt that Forest already have. (Do we have any evidence that says they will or have done this?) Doughty's will would have said give the club to the best bidder. Club revalued and all that fancy stock market stuff allows them effectively 9 million debt from the bank to spend and anything they want to put in out of their own pocket.
However, the club will still be running at a loss so if it takes Forest more than 2 years to go up they will be at least 20 million in debt, still with a decrepit stadium and a big wage bill. Do or die for Forest and Leicester then, miserable medicority for Derby take your pick.
posted on 11/7/12
No wellies, by my example they don't have any cash at this stage... how the cash comes in we don't know yet, and won't know for at least 21 months
Worst case scenario - they introduce significant funds via share capital (as this is within FFP as it's not owed back to them by NFFC - eg. Abramovich, Man City's sheikh)
Best case scenario - they introduce no funds and withdraw from football league membership (as the people of Kuwait all love DCFC and hate NFFC with a passion as they have a decrepid old ground, no fans and a manager with a funny accent). Notts City Council burn the stadium down as it's a health hazard to local residents and Al-Hasawi is made mayor of Derby for 2013.
posted on 11/7/12
i heard they brought the club for......
2 camels...
2 goats....
and a packet of wine gums.....
posted on 11/7/12
I'm failing to spot the sexual innuendo their Dave
posted on 11/7/12
Just a quick aside I detect lots of anger towards the financial injustice of corporate football l.t.d at the moment.
If ever anyone is up for a spot of freeing the beautiful game by any means necessary, I might be interested if I can get the time off work.
posted on 11/7/12
Ahh clever lad Milf I get you now, didn't think about that share capital loophole malarky.
Will take Best Case Scenario -Good ole Agent Al Hasawi, Al Hasawi's Barmy Amry,
saves me losing my life in an armed struggle too.
Hang on why are nobody buying Derby County shares? The mind boggles.
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