Remember serve wasn't be all and end all as they used to serve underarm.

I think it was henman's grandmother who was first woman to serve overarm at wimbledon?

I've never served underarm....in any sport....it's just pathetic!

Agassi for me was perhaps the best. Playing in the 90s with lightening quick conditions, fast smaller balls and natural strings against the best servers of the game.

I don't awe to the great returners of today. Everything is stacked up against the server. Ever slowing surfaces, bigger fluffier balls and bigger racquet frame, better strings. There is nothing much left for the server to do. It would have been almost impossible to return the serves of Karlovic, Isner, Berdych and Raonic in the 90s conditions. Yet Likes of Murray and Djo do it with only a little bit of trouble. The serve weapon has been blunted badly now, so nothing great about it.

Agassi keeps talking such things to media, maybe he gets paid for it. Maybe not, but I certainly don't agree about this great returns thing.

Fed is just as good as any, probably better than Murray.

Agassi didn't have to deal with the likes of Isner to start with.

The point is not in returning itself, but in the way that a good return enables a player to turn it around into instant attack.
If it was that easy, rotla, they'd all be doing it.
Return has always been an unsung shot, and is one of the most diffiucult ones , in my opinion. It's much easier to volley than return.

Agassi didn't deal with Isner and Karlovic but certainly dealt well with Goran, Kraji, Becker, Pete.. certainly well enough for me to say he wouldn't have any more trouble facing Karlovic and Isner than he did against them.

Fed's returning has been always among the best, it has to be for any player who commands the success as he does.

I agree about your point of making a good return and not just a return. I didn't say its easy, but it certainly has become easier, to a good extent.

Look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soJ_FVnijAw

Would you not agree that it became easier to return? Certainly looks to me.

Returning a volleying are different skills. It hard for me to say which is more difficult. It varies from player to player.

TBH, I don't know if it's become easier to return. Playing conditions have changed, and I am not qualified to comment on how they affect returning, I can only guess.

I'm interested in how difficult it is to return aggressively like Novak does. To me that's an exceptional skill that is the key in his game at the moment.

I also think it may become another shot that the players will be working on (if they can) and add to their arsenal in future.

Some players' serving can kind of simulate the older conditions, eg. Berdych's serve: it's fast and low, and very difficult to return.
Then you have Isner's which is a terrible one as it kicks so high it comes to you at a shoulder's length.
They are both terrible to return on any surface.

@nitb
I'm interested in how difficult it is to return aggressively like Novak does. To me that's an exceptional skill that is the key in his game at the moment.
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His aggressive returns are also aided by the fact that he is helped by slow conditions. It allows him more time to see the ball. But I wouldn't put too much into this 'aggressive returning' of his as 'exceptional'. This is due to the following reasons. [ A little discretion needed here, they are just my opinions based on how I see tennis ]

1. His aggressive returns were mostly seen last year. That was a stellar year and his form and confidence was so high, it was like whatever he touched turned gold.

2. His aggressive returns were a lot against Nadal. Nadal isn't the best of servers. This year it was only in AO after 2nd set that I saw some aggressive returning. AO surface is as slow a HC can get ( maybe Miami is a bit slower still ) . But what happened at Dubai MC and Rome and RG?

3. He returned good against Fed in FO 2012 semis. Again we know about the how slow were those Balobat balls. Fed didn't serve well in that match, his first serve % was lowering with the match and went way too low by the 3rd set. Anyway I don't rate that match very high, Lots of BP and breaks for both players lots of errors.. So nothing much about his returning.

5. Djo's opus in this returning is mainly due to the USopen 2011 semis return winner to save the match point. I'm not much fan of one point. It was very close, he was already in 'nothing to lose' mode, on the other day it could have gone wide easily.

6. I see him as a very good returner, indeed he is. but 'exceptional'?? Not so much. Certainly not in these times where everything is in slo-mo.

The reason why I think it's exceptional is because not many are able to do it even in the present conditions.
You have to take the ball early and the timing must be immaculate.
Yes, conditions definitely help, and there's no secret Nole playes his best tennis on slower (not slow) hard courts, like at AO, but he's just as great at USO.

It all boils down to how he hits his forehand.
I think that's one area he can gain most advantage on in terms of improvement. Quite a lot actually.
His forehand was better last year, and I found it passive most of this year (compared to last) except at Wimbledon. He was beginning to utilise it great and I thought he was going to win it, but then stg happened against Fed.
Can't wait for part 2 at the Olympics
Do you know that the final is best of 5, and the rest best of 3?

btw, rotla, I don't know if you know, but we have some more topics you'd be interested in here :
http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/f1-welcome

@ nitb

The reason why I think it's exceptional is because not many are able to do it even in the present conditions.
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Who are not able to return well now? Nadal makes so many return, all the top players do. That was the point Federer said seeing Rosol beat Nadal. "Today it's virtually impossible because you make so many more returns these days and conditions are so much slower." . Nadal Murray Djokovic all. Did you see how Ferrer handles the serves of Delpo and Isner? You have any doubt about his good returns? Not me. As I said Djokovic's exceptional returning have mainly been attributed to his last year performance. Prior to that perhaps even an avid fan like you might not have spotted anything about those returns to be calling it exceptional. So his the case this year, they have been good I agree, it has to be, but nothing like what it was last year.

@ Do you know that the final is best of 5, and the rest best of 3?
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Yes read it, it was in the wimbledon website itself given. Good to see that.

@btw, rotla, I don't know if you know, but we have some more topics you'd be interested in here :
http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/f1-welcome
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Did you all move to another forum? I didn't know about this one. Lets explore. Not sure I can handle multiple forums all together, even one is difficult for me.

We're coexisting at the moment