Valid point but to me I think faultering at the end does indeed indicate a new trend in Agent power. The thing is if an agent makes money based on his client's transfer fee and wages then he will push his client to were the money is. In today's world were extravagant lifestyles are becoming the norm for the rich its becoming too easy to for agents to just dangle a lifestyle in the player's face to sway them to thier whim.
All the Agent has to say is you are talented and that club is big, you can win there and they will pay you more than this club, why shouldnt you be payed for your talent? and thts it. Reputation counts for not in today's game there are few players that would give up better deals for better teams.
This is becoming the dumbest phrase on ja606 "... A club of our size..." Milan is a club that is of a bigger "size" and guess what they just sold their 2 best players to psg, a "smaller" club. We all know why.
This phrase is why liverpool are in a state of immense delusion and our fandom too might be getting there. Here is the reality. We are not the big cheese anymore. If we are involved with a bidding process, all things being equal, WE ARE GOING TO LOSE. When we are the biggest bidder, we have won, when we are not well you know.
This shoulc clear things up. Pls lets leave that immensely delusional statement " a club of size" out of our lexicon before we start sounding like scouse
so, when Fergie says we are interested in Hazard/Lucas/RVP etc. he is lying? (Afterall he cant help himself when it comes to lying to United fans)
More remarkably when Lillle, San Paulo, and Arsenal say they have recieved bids for Hazard/Lucas/RVP from Manchester United (up to £30m) they too have taken Glazers shilling and are lying?
The power of the Glazers is staggering.
Stu, I see VCs point.
At no point u til the last week or so have I seen anyone on this forum or others, at work, at football, bring up Lucas.
With players like Lucas, all of a sudden, we're blessed with these footballing gurus who appear out of nowhere and harp on about players like they're the new Christ.
I e not seen him mentioned or fans clamouring to sign him. Ganso and Neymar, sure.
All I knew of 'Lucas Moura' is that he was a beast in my Brazil silver team I believe on ultimate team last year. As was Jobson and Fernandinho I think it was.
Point is, people come out and try and claim some kind of high ground by knowing all about these players. Why weren't you calling to sign him 6 months ago? Where does one even watch Brazilian football week in week out? Unless you know him from FIFA/Football Manager in which case...
Him making his debut was mentioned in an article in the last day or 2. Anyone can quote snippets of articles casually to pass them off as knowledge to sound like they know more than they actually do.
He is NOT, a big name lol, that's a fact.
I thought the Brazilian footballer called Lucas played for the Dippers, until last week.
I see VC is making friends again.
Clearly he doesn't play football manager. Lucas Moura has been a wonderkid on there for the last 2 seasons. Well known is an understatement.
Not seeing him play much.....then he'd have a point. But lots know of him and his talents.
Clearly he doesn't play football manager.
***
Most people dont.
comment by TheNumber7 (U14556)
posted 23 minutes ago
Stu, I see VCs point.
At no point u til the last week or so have I seen anyone on this forum or others, at work, at football, bring up Lucas.
...............
I checked back through the OP's post hsitory, and can't find him mention Lucas anywhere either.
Clearly he doesn't play football manager. Lucas Moura has been a wonderkid on there for the last 2 seasons. Well known is an understatement.
---------
Come on mate......FM11 had Santon as the best full back in the world by 25.
Hundreds on there are 'wonder kids', particularly from south America. FM is a great management sim. A game. It's NOT a scouting tool or a realistic reflection of player abilities.
I still agree with VC in that noone was clamouring to sign him or even banging on about him until now but all of a sudden, the football gurus pop up claiming to know the vitals of linked players.
Honestly, the only young players I have seen mentioned from Brazil are Ganso and Neymar on these boards and even Ganso not so much.
I know thousands of players from FIFA and Football Manager but would never claim to be able to discuss their ability, whether they would be a good signing or suited to certain leagues etc
I still agree with VC in that noone was clamouring to sign him or even banging on about him until now but all of a sudden, the football gurus pop up claiming to know the vitals of linked players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not disagreeing with you. Or VC. That's how football fans work.
Nobody was banging on about signing RVP until the rumour emerged we were in for him either.
I was merely pointing out that many people knew of him even if they hadn't seen him play much or even at all.
I knew him from football manager. Then that game led me to find out just how good he is in real life because as you say it's just a game. I'm going to see Brazil this weekend at OT because of people like him, Ganso and Neymar.
Nobody was banging on about signing RVP until the rumour emerged we were in for him either.
.............
I would suggest bpeople had actually heard of RVP and seen him play.
I challenge you to find one post on here older that two weeks, that suggests we sign this Lucas chap.
Fair enough SE85 and I'm not saying everyone is the same but 'generally' people won't have heard of or at least not known much of them until all of a sudden, everyone's an expert and has followed their career lol
It just bugs me because people use it almost like a chest puffing exercise and proclaiming their great knowledge. Not saying you are but people do.
Same with this Strootman chap. I don't watch the Dutch league. Ever. I'm not ashamed to say so and I highly doubt many people do. The amount of people claiming he is/was (doesn't appear as in fashion as 6 weeks ago) is crazy.
RVP is different. People didn't talk much of signing him because it was so unrealistic. I have however seen many an article where UTD fans have said we would welcome him but more in a pipe dream sort of way.
The OP just seems to be trying to get some odd kind of upper hand by appearing to claim he's followed Lucas for a year and a half lol I don't believe for a minute he has and is basing his opinion, like many of us on YouTube, football manager etc. not a bad thing, it's not like we have a chance to watch the league week in week out but why people claim otherwise I really don't know...
It is being reported that we have bid close to £26m for Lucas which hardly seems frivolous to me if it's true. That's a hell of a lot for a 19 year old.
It is also reported that ours is the only official bid received. There are also better candidates if the club was just looking to feign interest in order to excite the fans.
After so many years it should be obvious that the number one criteria for Sir Alex securing a new player is "Will he fit in?!" If the player or agent is just seeking the highest bidder then they are not likely to be the kind of player Sir Alex wants. He buys players who want to play for United, one unknown signing who wants to fit in and do well at United is worth a handful of mercenaries looking for Top Dollar!!!
Lambsy
You would have thought so by now.
He buys players who want to play for United
__________________
I've never really understood this comment even though you see it written often.
Obviously SAF will not sign a player who does not want to play for United because that player will not sign for United. That does not mean that SAF wasn't interested.
E.g. we bid for Hazard by all accounts and he clearly did not want to play for United. Ditto Shearer, Batistuta, Gazza, etc.
I.e. we only sign players who want to play for us simply because they won't sign for us if they don't want to play for us!! That is not the same thing as not wanting to sign them.
redmisty
There's another category of players who are open to signing for United but don't really care whether it is United or some other club and are basically ready to go to the highest bidder. Fergie does seem to set particular store in players who positively choose United. Perhaps our reluctance to blow competing bids out of the water sometimes has a little to do with this: apart from saving money, perhaps this is a means to build in a motivation criterion.
RR
as i said earlier you would have thought people would have realised this by now.
Red Russian,
Fair point - I agree in principle but I also think that this is used by a lot of fans to make themselves feel better whenever we fail to sign a player...i.e. they say "oh well, he obviously didn't want to play for us" whenever United refuses to match a rival bid or whatever.
While it may be true that the player is a merc, I think fans are too quick to assume this whenever we miss out on a player. Shearer is a good example because we tried to sign him from Blackburn even AFTER he snubbed United to join Blackburn in the first place!
I just think it's a bit simplistic to say that we only bid for players who really want to play for us. The number of times we have been snubbed would suggest otherwise.
Owen would love to go to Everton. If they really wanted him they would get him, on a pay to play contact, too
====
as an everton fan would like to see him sign for everton on a pay to play contract
as an everton fan would like to see him sign for everton on a pay to play contract
***
he is currently looking for a club to do just this. Have a word with Moyesie.
comment by redmisty (U7556) posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
"I just think it's a bit simplistic to say that we only bid for players who really want to play for us."
No, we only sign players who want to play for us, we usually find out what the player is about once a bid has been made, do they perk up and think "United want me" as with Bebatov, or do they prefer to go elsewhere, as with others. The ones we sign are the ones Sir Alex believes will fit in!
redmisty
I agree it isn't black / white. If a player is very good (and in the case of Shearer not only was he good, but there was no question of his dedication to the job at hand on the field) it helps offset any ambivalence about United.
The ones we sign are the ones Sir Alex believes will fit in!
__________________
Possibly! Or you could argue that the ones we sign are the ones who said "yes" instead of "no"!
Red Russian, fair point about Shearer. He was a monster so arguablyl worth chasing even if he didn't care about the club. I guess my point is that we used to try to sign the best players regardless whereas now it is often argued that we only try to sign players who really want to play for United. I think to some extent what this really means is that we just can't afford to bid for the best players anymore...
Sign in if you want to comment
are we just pretending to bid for players?
Page 2 of 2
posted on 24/7/12
Valid point but to me I think faultering at the end does indeed indicate a new trend in Agent power. The thing is if an agent makes money based on his client's transfer fee and wages then he will push his client to were the money is. In today's world were extravagant lifestyles are becoming the norm for the rich its becoming too easy to for agents to just dangle a lifestyle in the player's face to sway them to thier whim.
All the Agent has to say is you are talented and that club is big, you can win there and they will pay you more than this club, why shouldnt you be payed for your talent? and thts it. Reputation counts for not in today's game there are few players that would give up better deals for better teams.
posted on 24/7/12
This is becoming the dumbest phrase on ja606 "... A club of our size..." Milan is a club that is of a bigger "size" and guess what they just sold their 2 best players to psg, a "smaller" club. We all know why.
This phrase is why liverpool are in a state of immense delusion and our fandom too might be getting there. Here is the reality. We are not the big cheese anymore. If we are involved with a bidding process, all things being equal, WE ARE GOING TO LOSE. When we are the biggest bidder, we have won, when we are not well you know.
This shoulc clear things up. Pls lets leave that immensely delusional statement " a club of size" out of our lexicon before we start sounding like scouse
posted on 24/7/12
so, when Fergie says we are interested in Hazard/Lucas/RVP etc. he is lying? (Afterall he cant help himself when it comes to lying to United fans)
More remarkably when Lillle, San Paulo, and Arsenal say they have recieved bids for Hazard/Lucas/RVP from Manchester United (up to £30m) they too have taken Glazers shilling and are lying?
The power of the Glazers is staggering.
posted on 24/7/12
Stu, I see VCs point.
At no point u til the last week or so have I seen anyone on this forum or others, at work, at football, bring up Lucas.
With players like Lucas, all of a sudden, we're blessed with these footballing gurus who appear out of nowhere and harp on about players like they're the new Christ.
I e not seen him mentioned or fans clamouring to sign him. Ganso and Neymar, sure.
All I knew of 'Lucas Moura' is that he was a beast in my Brazil silver team I believe on ultimate team last year. As was Jobson and Fernandinho I think it was.
Point is, people come out and try and claim some kind of high ground by knowing all about these players. Why weren't you calling to sign him 6 months ago? Where does one even watch Brazilian football week in week out? Unless you know him from FIFA/Football Manager in which case...
Him making his debut was mentioned in an article in the last day or 2. Anyone can quote snippets of articles casually to pass them off as knowledge to sound like they know more than they actually do.
He is NOT, a big name lol, that's a fact.
posted on 24/7/12
I thought the Brazilian footballer called Lucas played for the Dippers, until last week.
posted on 24/7/12
I see VC is making friends again.
Clearly he doesn't play football manager. Lucas Moura has been a wonderkid on there for the last 2 seasons. Well known is an understatement.
Not seeing him play much.....then he'd have a point. But lots know of him and his talents.
posted on 24/7/12
Clearly he doesn't play football manager.
***
Most people dont.
posted on 24/7/12
comment by TheNumber7 (U14556)
posted 23 minutes ago
Stu, I see VCs point.
At no point u til the last week or so have I seen anyone on this forum or others, at work, at football, bring up Lucas.
...............
I checked back through the OP's post hsitory, and can't find him mention Lucas anywhere either.
posted on 24/7/12
Clearly he doesn't play football manager. Lucas Moura has been a wonderkid on there for the last 2 seasons. Well known is an understatement.
---------
Come on mate......FM11 had Santon as the best full back in the world by 25.
Hundreds on there are 'wonder kids', particularly from south America. FM is a great management sim. A game. It's NOT a scouting tool or a realistic reflection of player abilities.
I still agree with VC in that noone was clamouring to sign him or even banging on about him until now but all of a sudden, the football gurus pop up claiming to know the vitals of linked players.
Honestly, the only young players I have seen mentioned from Brazil are Ganso and Neymar on these boards and even Ganso not so much.
I know thousands of players from FIFA and Football Manager but would never claim to be able to discuss their ability, whether they would be a good signing or suited to certain leagues etc
posted on 24/7/12
I still agree with VC in that noone was clamouring to sign him or even banging on about him until now but all of a sudden, the football gurus pop up claiming to know the vitals of linked players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not disagreeing with you. Or VC. That's how football fans work.
Nobody was banging on about signing RVP until the rumour emerged we were in for him either.
I was merely pointing out that many people knew of him even if they hadn't seen him play much or even at all.
I knew him from football manager. Then that game led me to find out just how good he is in real life because as you say it's just a game. I'm going to see Brazil this weekend at OT because of people like him, Ganso and Neymar.
posted on 24/7/12
Nobody was banging on about signing RVP until the rumour emerged we were in for him either.
.............
I would suggest bpeople had actually heard of RVP and seen him play.
I challenge you to find one post on here older that two weeks, that suggests we sign this Lucas chap.
posted on 24/7/12
Fair enough SE85 and I'm not saying everyone is the same but 'generally' people won't have heard of or at least not known much of them until all of a sudden, everyone's an expert and has followed their career lol
It just bugs me because people use it almost like a chest puffing exercise and proclaiming their great knowledge. Not saying you are but people do.
Same with this Strootman chap. I don't watch the Dutch league. Ever. I'm not ashamed to say so and I highly doubt many people do. The amount of people claiming he is/was (doesn't appear as in fashion as 6 weeks ago) is crazy.
RVP is different. People didn't talk much of signing him because it was so unrealistic. I have however seen many an article where UTD fans have said we would welcome him but more in a pipe dream sort of way.
The OP just seems to be trying to get some odd kind of upper hand by appearing to claim he's followed Lucas for a year and a half lol I don't believe for a minute he has and is basing his opinion, like many of us on YouTube, football manager etc. not a bad thing, it's not like we have a chance to watch the league week in week out but why people claim otherwise I really don't know...
posted on 25/7/12
It is being reported that we have bid close to £26m for Lucas which hardly seems frivolous to me if it's true. That's a hell of a lot for a 19 year old.
It is also reported that ours is the only official bid received. There are also better candidates if the club was just looking to feign interest in order to excite the fans.
posted on 25/7/12
After so many years it should be obvious that the number one criteria for Sir Alex securing a new player is "Will he fit in?!" If the player or agent is just seeking the highest bidder then they are not likely to be the kind of player Sir Alex wants. He buys players who want to play for United, one unknown signing who wants to fit in and do well at United is worth a handful of mercenaries looking for Top Dollar!!!
posted on 25/7/12
Lambsy
You would have thought so by now.
posted on 25/7/12
He buys players who want to play for United
__________________
I've never really understood this comment even though you see it written often.
Obviously SAF will not sign a player who does not want to play for United because that player will not sign for United. That does not mean that SAF wasn't interested.
E.g. we bid for Hazard by all accounts and he clearly did not want to play for United. Ditto Shearer, Batistuta, Gazza, etc.
I.e. we only sign players who want to play for us simply because they won't sign for us if they don't want to play for us!! That is not the same thing as not wanting to sign them.
posted on 25/7/12
redmisty
There's another category of players who are open to signing for United but don't really care whether it is United or some other club and are basically ready to go to the highest bidder. Fergie does seem to set particular store in players who positively choose United. Perhaps our reluctance to blow competing bids out of the water sometimes has a little to do with this: apart from saving money, perhaps this is a means to build in a motivation criterion.
posted on 25/7/12
RR
as i said earlier you would have thought people would have realised this by now.
posted on 25/7/12
Red Russian,
Fair point - I agree in principle but I also think that this is used by a lot of fans to make themselves feel better whenever we fail to sign a player...i.e. they say "oh well, he obviously didn't want to play for us" whenever United refuses to match a rival bid or whatever.
While it may be true that the player is a merc, I think fans are too quick to assume this whenever we miss out on a player. Shearer is a good example because we tried to sign him from Blackburn even AFTER he snubbed United to join Blackburn in the first place!
I just think it's a bit simplistic to say that we only bid for players who really want to play for us. The number of times we have been snubbed would suggest otherwise.
posted on 25/7/12
Owen would love to go to Everton. If they really wanted him they would get him, on a pay to play contact, too
====
as an everton fan would like to see him sign for everton on a pay to play contract
posted on 25/7/12
as an everton fan would like to see him sign for everton on a pay to play contract
***
he is currently looking for a club to do just this. Have a word with Moyesie.
posted on 25/7/12
comment by redmisty (U7556) posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
"I just think it's a bit simplistic to say that we only bid for players who really want to play for us."
No, we only sign players who want to play for us, we usually find out what the player is about once a bid has been made, do they perk up and think "United want me" as with Bebatov, or do they prefer to go elsewhere, as with others. The ones we sign are the ones Sir Alex believes will fit in!
posted on 25/7/12
redmisty
I agree it isn't black / white. If a player is very good (and in the case of Shearer not only was he good, but there was no question of his dedication to the job at hand on the field) it helps offset any ambivalence about United.
posted on 26/7/12
The ones we sign are the ones Sir Alex believes will fit in!
__________________
Possibly! Or you could argue that the ones we sign are the ones who said "yes" instead of "no"!
Red Russian, fair point about Shearer. He was a monster so arguablyl worth chasing even if he didn't care about the club. I guess my point is that we used to try to sign the best players regardless whereas now it is often argued that we only try to sign players who really want to play for United. I think to some extent what this really means is that we just can't afford to bid for the best players anymore...
Page 2 of 2