I'm not saying Beckham and Rooney are world class in my personal opinion. I don't particularly like either of them or their styles but they have both excellent players who have played at the very highest level and in the biggest games, won the CL, won the Premier League, Beckham's won La Liga. So how else do you judge "world class" out with personal opinion?

So how else do you judge "world class" out with personal opinion?
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Personally, i despise these "World-Class" debates. The definition will vary from fan to fan and is pretty much pointless. So to be honest, i prefer not to mention these players when comparing managers.

I've said it before, but for me Fergie is head and shoulders above any manager in history. Wenger is a great manager, but he's had far better players a won far less trophies. This to me stings with a lack of tactical knowledge.

Rooney was at Everton and just burst onto the scene when Utd signed him, Viera was at a huge club already and was relatively established in France.

"Rooney was at Everton and just burst onto the scene when Utd signed him, Viera was at a huge club already and was relatively established in France."

Rooney was also England's star performer at Euro 2004 and was wanted by every big club in Europe. It's honestly not even worth discussing with you if you are this blinkered.

I think Wenger's a very good manager, don't get me wrong. But in comparison to Fergie even Mourinho is lagging.

I think Wenger's a very good manager, don't get me wrong. But in comparison to Fergie even Mourinho is lagging.

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I agree with you here. But your reasoning as to why this is the case is full of crap.

So you're not going to respond to any of the individual points made?

It's honestly not even worth discussing with you if you are this blinkered
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I'm not even a Utd fan

But in comparison to Fergie even Mourinho is lagging
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Please, do not mention Mourinho alongside Fergie. The man's tactical knowledge is range to very defensive to extremely defensive. His approach to big games is always to stifle the opposition and his moaning after games is getting boring now.

Mourinho is well below Louis Van Gaal in my managers list.

I hate Mourinho in every conceivable way, but the guy gets results unfortunately.

As for the Viera and Weah examples. Yes Wenger helped develop them greatly and you can do that at any point in a players career, my argument about the Rooney and Ronaldo are that they were very raw talents when they were signed and Fergie made them what they are.

"I've said it before, but for me Fergie is head and shoulders above any manager in history. Wenger is a great manager, but he's had far better players a won far less trophies. This to me stings with a lack of tactical knowledge. "

Absolutely cannot understandthe point you're making here.

I have no qualms with someone thinking Ferguson is better than Wenger, but that argument really doesn't add up to me.
In the seasons prior to Wenger's arrival, we finished 5th, 12th, 4th, and 10th; he was far from serendipitous when it comes to the players he had.
Yes, he had some talented players, but there was a massive drinking and drugs culture at the club, and the core of the side was hitting its 30s with little in the form of viable replacements.
From a financial standpoint, Wenger had absolutely no right to compete either; not only did he take over a team in massive decline, he was competing with a side that had double the turnover, as well as having to help build funds to develop new training facilities and ultimately a new stadium.

If Arsenal ever did have the best players, then it's only down to Wenger's genius, so I don't think it's fair to use that as a stick to beat him with.

"I'm not even a Utd fan"

That doesn't mean you can't be blinkered.

"As for the Viera and Weah examples. Yes Wenger helped develop them greatly and you can do that at any point in a players career, my argument about the Rooney and Ronaldo are that they were very raw talents when they were signed and Fergie made them what they are."

So turning two players that commanded record breaking transfer fees into world class players is more impressive than doing the same with two non-internationals - one not even a pro, and the other only playing reserve team football?

DaStuDogg I wouldn't bother with him, I think he knows he's wrong now.

DaStuDogg, my ony point was that a team containing Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Gilberto, Pires, Ljunberg, Lauren, Campbell, Cole and Lehmann maybe should have dominated the football world much more then it did.

I'm not taking away the magnificence of the way Wenger constructed the team. My only point was that the only critical point you could make was that back-to-back titles and (with a fair element of luck) a CL trophy wasn’t won. Ferguson, however, has managed to win much more with far lower quality of players.

I never said one was more impressive than the other, originally I said that Fergie has developed more players to that level.

"I never said one was more impressive than the other, originally I said that Fergie has developed more players to that level."

Fair enough, but do you now take that back, or at least count the likes of Vieira and Weah in the list of players Wenger has developed? It's just that it seemed as though you were trying to dismiss Wenger's accomplishments with said players, which given the players you listed for Ferguson, seemed somewhat inequitable.


"DaStuDogg, my ony point was that a team containing Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Gilberto, Pires, Ljunberg, Lauren, Campbell, Cole and Lehmann maybe should have dominated the football world much more then it did.

I'm not taking away the magnificence of the way Wenger constructed the team. My only point was that the only critical point you could make was that back-to-back titles and (with a fair element of luck) a CL trophy wasn’t won. Ferguson, however, has managed to win much more with far lower quality of players. "

I understand the point you're making, and I've always felt Wenger may be a little lacking tactically when compared to his rivals, but I feel this is more than offset by his incredible ability to sign and develop inexpensive, raw talent, and develop them into world class stars.

Not to take away from Ferguson's achievements, but he's had far more resources at his disposal over his time than Wenger has had with Arsenal; if, as you say, Ferguson's team has had far lower quality players, then while you might argue he has proven tactically superior to Wenger, you would have to suggest this is countervailed by a comparative ineptitude in terms of transfers and the development of players.

Please, do not mention Mourinho alongside Fergie. The man's tactical knowledge is range to very defensive to extremely defensive. His approach to big games is always to stifle the opposition and his moaning after games is getting boring now.

Mourinho is well below Louis Van Gaal in my managers list.

Very true and agreeing , Serial.

In conclusion, wenger is clearly the better coach while fergie is just a manager who gets good results to equally bullying both his players and match officials.

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What a scandalous comment - fergie has bullied everyone for 25 years - makes it sound like he has never developed a player.