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Comment deleted by Site Moderator
You were running at a ten million annual loss just trying to hang on our coattails. Much of it under Smith's tenure.
It wasn't just 'one man' who brought you down. It was years of reckless spending.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
You were running at a ten million annual loss just trying to hang on our coattails. Much of it under Smith's tenure.
===
whilst wining 3 titles on the bounce aye tim we were hanging on to YOUR coattails right enough
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
It was years of reckless spending
===
more c()ck and bull. at the time of the craig whyte purchasing the club rangers had a debt of circa £18m + overdraft facilities to lloyds having been reduced from £30m in the previous 2/3 years.
this debt was clearly manageble for a club with our turnover
are we forgetting that any wrong doing isyet to be established re tax liabilities for EBT's and the dual contract issue?
Joe Deadley- And you found this article because you happened to accidentally hit Rangers not Celtic right? Even after a fantastic away victory to give your club CL football you still trawl the Rangers page, desperate stuff!
Tim- Not the case at all, we made a £13million profit in the year prior to Whyte taking over, hence our debt coming down from £31 to £18 million.
The £10 million loss claim came from Whyte. After all the other pysh he spouted, the "best" being we will come back stronger from administration (I didn't realise he was measuring this in decades) that comment needs to be taken with the usual shovel of salt.
Of course we'll be back. We've dusted ourselves down and are getting on with things. Given that we are supposed to be a wee club and have no history the amount of bitterness shown by fans of "older" Scottish clubs is astonishing and with the Commonwealth Games coming in 2 years does not show us in a good light at all.
Over a decade you ran that loss.
How many more titles did you win than us?
Was it worth it? You could have sold players, not bought the likes of Mendes, and ran within your budget.
A lot of it is simple arithmetic. We have a bigger stadium, so will always potentially generate more turnover.
As I said, you were on our coattails gasping to remain neck and neck. And look where you ended up.
Over a decade you ran that loss.
===
tim at it's height when Murray underwrote the share issue we were almost £60m in the red.
when the club was sold it was closer to the £20m mark. amazing how we managed to pay off in the region of £40m of debt whislt running at a loss for all tose years eh?
and if were measuring success in terms of debt free. Celtic currently have a debt, some would say this debt via their ridiculous wage bill had been sanctioned by the board in order to prevent 4 iar
----
A lot of it is simple arithmetic. We have a bigger stadium, so will always potentially generate more turnover.
===
only if you fill it timo
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Course you did Joe! Lucky you found this I guess. Winning to all but qualify for the CL but you're here, it's sad.
How did we not pay the clubs? We have an agreement with Hearts to make payments at agreed points. We are doing so. This happens everywhere, Celtic did it with Costa Fortune for example.
The bitterness cannot be good for your health Joe, let it go.....
Theyre tainted because you hadnt paid money that you owed to clubs therefore some clubs were at a disadvantage
===
this year Joe perhaps, but then what did we win last year/ this year? you do understand the concept of a contract and under that contract clubs agree payment timescales? FFS
this debt was clearly manageble for a club with our turnover
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and what about the huge tax liablity that was hanging over the club?
huge tax liablity
====
well considering we still haven't had a decision on this then i can't really see your point Irvine?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
i have no issues with the bhoys indulging in some friendly banter/ debate. it makes you realise, that depite all they say they need us to spice up the boring CL qualifiers
This is like looking into the hurt locker
This is like looking into the hurt locker
==
timo
as you've been kind enough to drop by again care to answer any of my earlier points or are you just giving it the rubber ear treatment
Silenced? Never!!! As you say it'a forum and i'm on here to talk about my team, you aren't obviously.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Some Celtic fans seem to forget that during large portions of the period in question, THEY were also running at a loss and had accrued large debts.
FFS, talk about selective memory....
tim at it's height when Murray underwrote the share issue we were almost £60m in the red.
when the club was sold it was closer to the £20m mark. amazing how we managed to pay off in the region of £40m of debt whislt running at a loss for all tose years eh?
--------------
Amazing you managed to pull this off. Did you cut costs so your income was a lot more than expenditure? Ringfence CL money? Sell players to service the debt? None of these. Rangers didnt pay off this debt themselves, in fact it has never been paid.
In 2002 your debt was £80m. Murray had a share issue which raised buttons so he underwrote £50m and transferred the debt to MIH. MIH never paid this off and Bank of Scotland was bailed out by the Government. Rangers didnt pay this debt off, it ended up costing the taxpayer.
Re OP and "one individual".You ran at a loss for over a decade, also remember that any money paid into EBTs would not effect profit so thats another £50m over 10 years. Whyte came and had to increase the wage bill by removing EBTs and giving players new contracts. Granted he didnt pay the PAYE but he couldnt afford to once you got kicked out of Europe. He didnt create this doomed business structure, he just didnt have any money to put in to save it. Its clear that nobody was willing to risk any money as you were up for sale for years. The tax case hanging over you was a factor and along with the crippled business was Murrays fault. Murray brought down your club, well McCoist had a hand in it too considering you were insolvent the minute you got kicked out of Europe.
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posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
You were running at a ten million annual loss just trying to hang on our coattails. Much of it under Smith's tenure.
It wasn't just 'one man' who brought you down. It was years of reckless spending.
posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
You were running at a ten million annual loss just trying to hang on our coattails. Much of it under Smith's tenure.
===
whilst wining 3 titles on the bounce aye tim we were hanging on to YOUR coattails right enough
posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
It was years of reckless spending
===
more c()ck and bull. at the time of the craig whyte purchasing the club rangers had a debt of circa £18m + overdraft facilities to lloyds having been reduced from £30m in the previous 2/3 years.
this debt was clearly manageble for a club with our turnover
are we forgetting that any wrong doing isyet to be established re tax liabilities for EBT's and the dual contract issue?
posted on 22/8/12
in what way Joe?
posted on 22/8/12
Joe Deadley- And you found this article because you happened to accidentally hit Rangers not Celtic right? Even after a fantastic away victory to give your club CL football you still trawl the Rangers page, desperate stuff!
Tim- Not the case at all, we made a £13million profit in the year prior to Whyte taking over, hence our debt coming down from £31 to £18 million.
The £10 million loss claim came from Whyte. After all the other pysh he spouted, the "best" being we will come back stronger from administration (I didn't realise he was measuring this in decades) that comment needs to be taken with the usual shovel of salt.
Of course we'll be back. We've dusted ourselves down and are getting on with things. Given that we are supposed to be a wee club and have no history the amount of bitterness shown by fans of "older" Scottish clubs is astonishing and with the Commonwealth Games coming in 2 years does not show us in a good light at all.
posted on 22/8/12
Over a decade you ran that loss.
How many more titles did you win than us?
Was it worth it? You could have sold players, not bought the likes of Mendes, and ran within your budget.
A lot of it is simple arithmetic. We have a bigger stadium, so will always potentially generate more turnover.
As I said, you were on our coattails gasping to remain neck and neck. And look where you ended up.
posted on 22/8/12
Over a decade you ran that loss.
===
tim at it's height when Murray underwrote the share issue we were almost £60m in the red.
when the club was sold it was closer to the £20m mark. amazing how we managed to pay off in the region of £40m of debt whislt running at a loss for all tose years eh?
and if were measuring success in terms of debt free. Celtic currently have a debt, some would say this debt via their ridiculous wage bill had been sanctioned by the board in order to prevent 4 iar
----
A lot of it is simple arithmetic. We have a bigger stadium, so will always potentially generate more turnover.
===
only if you fill it timo
posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
Course you did Joe! Lucky you found this I guess. Winning to all but qualify for the CL but you're here, it's sad.
How did we not pay the clubs? We have an agreement with Hearts to make payments at agreed points. We are doing so. This happens everywhere, Celtic did it with Costa Fortune for example.
The bitterness cannot be good for your health Joe, let it go.....
posted on 22/8/12
Theyre tainted because you hadnt paid money that you owed to clubs therefore some clubs were at a disadvantage
===
this year Joe perhaps, but then what did we win last year/ this year? you do understand the concept of a contract and under that contract clubs agree payment timescales? FFS
posted on 22/8/12
this debt was clearly manageble for a club with our turnover
-----------------------------------------------------------------
and what about the huge tax liablity that was hanging over the club?
posted on 22/8/12
huge tax liablity
====
well considering we still haven't had a decision on this then i can't really see your point Irvine?
posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
i have no issues with the bhoys indulging in some friendly banter/ debate. it makes you realise, that depite all they say they need us to spice up the boring CL qualifiers
posted on 22/8/12
This is like looking into the hurt locker
posted on 22/8/12
This is like looking into the hurt locker
==
timo
as you've been kind enough to drop by again care to answer any of my earlier points or are you just giving it the rubber ear treatment
posted on 22/8/12
Silenced? Never!!! As you say it'a forum and i'm on here to talk about my team, you aren't obviously.
posted on 22/8/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/8/12
Some Celtic fans seem to forget that during large portions of the period in question, THEY were also running at a loss and had accrued large debts.
FFS, talk about selective memory....
posted on 22/8/12
tim at it's height when Murray underwrote the share issue we were almost £60m in the red.
when the club was sold it was closer to the £20m mark. amazing how we managed to pay off in the region of £40m of debt whislt running at a loss for all tose years eh?
--------------
Amazing you managed to pull this off. Did you cut costs so your income was a lot more than expenditure? Ringfence CL money? Sell players to service the debt? None of these. Rangers didnt pay off this debt themselves, in fact it has never been paid.
In 2002 your debt was £80m. Murray had a share issue which raised buttons so he underwrote £50m and transferred the debt to MIH. MIH never paid this off and Bank of Scotland was bailed out by the Government. Rangers didnt pay this debt off, it ended up costing the taxpayer.
Re OP and "one individual".You ran at a loss for over a decade, also remember that any money paid into EBTs would not effect profit so thats another £50m over 10 years. Whyte came and had to increase the wage bill by removing EBTs and giving players new contracts. Granted he didnt pay the PAYE but he couldnt afford to once you got kicked out of Europe. He didnt create this doomed business structure, he just didnt have any money to put in to save it. Its clear that nobody was willing to risk any money as you were up for sale for years. The tax case hanging over you was a factor and along with the crippled business was Murrays fault. Murray brought down your club, well McCoist had a hand in it too considering you were insolvent the minute you got kicked out of Europe.
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