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Best CM's ever?

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comment by Elvis (U7425)

posted on 4/9/12

comment by Robbing_Hoody I taught Reina to flap (U6374)
posted 6 seconds ago
Elvis (U7425)

No - he scored 26 goals from the rw. It was his best season for goals. He did not like it there. Rafa moved him back insde. Ask ANY LFC fan.
------------------------------

I still think you are wrong. I think it was the 06/07 season when Rafa played him on the right. When he came back into the middle and played SS he scored all the goals. If you can find me any article that says differently I'll have a read, but I have found loads that disagree with what you are saying. Sure you dont have your years mixed up?

posted on 4/9/12

Why dont you both just kiss and make up?

posted on 4/9/12

Elvis;

"As a right winger/midfielder, Steven Gerrard had the most productive seasons winning wise, claiming a Champions League title, and an FA Cup."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Ben%C3%ADtez

posted on 4/9/12

Elvis;

Think you're on about 2008/09??

Looks like we're both right.

comment by Elvis (U7425)

posted on 4/9/12

Sorry, I meant that 05/06 season that he was on the right wing, not 06/07. The partnership of Alonso and Sissoko meant Rafa pushed him wide. He did still have a good season that year I believe, but he didn't score 26 goals. That was when deployed behind Torres.

posted on 4/9/12

Elvis (U7425)

Yep - he got 24 goals including stuff for England.

Then the 2008/9 he got 26 as you said as a SS.

World class strike rates none-the less. The fact he did twice strengthens my point I reckon.

comment by Elvis (U7425)

posted on 4/9/12

comment by Robbing_Hoody I taught Reina to flap (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
Elvis;

"As a right winger/midfielder, Steven Gerrard had the most productive seasons winning wise, claiming a Champions League title, and an FA Cup."
--------------------------------------

Winning wise - that means trophies. It wasn't the season he scored 26 goals though as you said. Ergo, he didn't score 26 goals from midfield, as you said. In 06/07 I think he did get more than 20 though from the right wing.

comment by Elvis (U7425)

posted on 4/9/12

Aggghhhhh - I mean 05/06.

posted on 4/9/12

INFAMOUS_NINJA (U5574)

He's the one with the crush who's added nothing to the thread. I've backed up all my points and tried to debate with others. He is a well known wum and some of his own fans have asked for him to be banned. It's your thread so I'll let you decide.

comment by Elvis (U7425)

posted on 4/9/12

comment by Robbing_Hoody I taught Reina to flap (U6374)
posted 40 seconds ago
Elvis (U7425)

Yep - he got 24 goals including stuff for England.

Then the 2008/9 he got 26 as you said as a SS.

World class strike rates none-the less. The fact he did twice strengthens my point I reckon.
---------------------------------------

That fact that his 2 best seasons for LFC were when he played on the right wing and as an SS, support your argument that he was a world class CM? How is that then?

posted on 4/9/12

Elvis (U7425)

Yep - sorry.

24 goals out wide in 2005/06.
26 as a SS in 2008/09.

No talent that lad.

posted on 4/9/12

Elvis (U7425)

I've digressed on Gerrard and just see him as a World class footballer. I've stated I don't think he's as good a CM as Scholes for example. He got more goals as he could get in better positions and got better as a player.

My point is that people are saying he has not technique or positional awareness - well how does excelling in multiple positions mean that he is not tactically or technically aware?

The answer is it does not.

comment by Elvis (U7425)

posted on 4/9/12

comment by Robbing_Hoody I taught Reina to flap (U6374)
posted 40 seconds ago
Elvis (U7425)

Yep - sorry.

24 goals out wide in 2005/06.
26 as a SS in 2008/09.

No talent that lad.
--------------------------------------

I never said he had no talent, just that for me he wasnt a world class CM and that he would have been better had he played SS for his whole career. A fact backed up by his return when he played as a SS. With the all the confusion, you seem to have got yourself turned around - you have ended up proving my point.

posted on 4/9/12

Elvis (U7425)

I've proved other points as well. A moment ago certain people were saying that stats are not the be all and end all. He played just as well at CM but had a more disciplined role and as such did not get on the score sheet as much. Ergo - we both have points.

I'd like to see the assists when in different positions. Maybe he got many more at CM and put in 7 tackles a game?

comment by Elvis (U7425)

posted on 4/9/12

comment by Robbing_Hoody I taught Reina to flap (U6374)
posted 42 seconds ago
Elvis (U7425)

I've proved other points as well. A moment ago certain people were saying that stats are not the be all and end all. He played just as well at CM but had a more disciplined role and as such did not get on the score sheet as much.
------------------------------

I dont think he has ever been particularly disciplined in CM to be honest, which is why he was better further forwards with others taking up that responsibility. The one game that stands out where he truly delivered and excellent performance was when we beat Germany 5-1. He sat in front of the back 4 and controlled the game superbly. Unfortunately, he never showed the willing to repeat that kind of performance when partner with Lampard. Had he done, I honestly think that we as a country would have performed much better over the last decade or so.

Anyway I have to go - good debating. Bye!

posted on 4/9/12

Elvis (U7425)

That's the game where Didi clapped him in the middle I think.

People say he was indiciplined. I think he was asked to play that way. There is a difference. You can't play all those positions if you're not disciplined.

Have a nice evening.

posted on 4/9/12

"He's the one with the crush who's added nothing to the thread. I've backed up all my points and tried to debate with others. He is a well known wum and some of his own fans have asked for him to be banned. It's your thread so I'll let you decide."



This is all he capable of. Spouting nonsensical drivel and making stuff up.

He backed his opinion with "facts" (accolades and "professionals" say so).

posted on 4/9/12



Man crush. I seem to be able to debate okay with everyone else.

You remind me of that story of the parents watching their son in an army passing out parade.

"Look at our dubbed. Everyone is out of step apart from him."

posted on 4/9/12

You're so witty.

Just a shame you couldn't apply on of it to your idiotic arguments.

You were ripped apart so you have to resort to insults.

Slanging match basically. Clear which way this debate has gone.

posted on 4/9/12

Are you drugs?

Many people have agreed with me on this thread. You write quite frankly wqeird statements like;

He backed his opinion with "facts" (accolades and "professionals" say so).

As opposed to what? What have you backed yours up with? Nothing bud.

There are a huge amount more numerically in insults from you as well so I'm not sure why you feel the need to reinforce an already weak point.

You've ripped nothing apart bar the thread of credibility that you had left on the site.

I'm finishing work now but I'd love to hear what you're backing your opinion up with because from where we're sitting there is nothing.

All in all you've looked rather silly and hypocritical. If you don't think that goals, awards and references are a valid back up to my opinion when compared to the thin air you've offered then you're weird.

posted on 4/9/12

"Are you drugs?

Many people have agreed with me on this thread. You write quite frankly wqeird statements like;

He backed his opinion with "facts" (accolades and "professionals" say so)."

Many people? Who? 1 or 2 Scousers? Or was it 5 million people supposedly agreeing with you?
Another false and pretty much bull comment.
Provide names.

"As opposed to what? What have you backed yours up with? Nothing bud. "

It's called an opinion. And guess what? It's my opinion. Not some other "professionals". Maybe you should pay more attention to Garth Crooks and Pele.

I did clearly say you're entitled to yours. But you're incapable of simple reading, thus you didn't understand it.

Providing quotes and accolades does absolutely nothing for your argument.

"There are a huge amount more numerically in insults from you as well so I'm not sure why you feel the need to reinforce an already weak point."

You're the one who originally made the point about insults. So guess what? Once again your whole point fails.

"You've ripped nothing apart bar the thread of credibility that you had left on the site."

Of course. Getting into a football debate with a guy devoid of any intelligence does leave you with some battle scars.
Ah. Another insult!

"I'm finishing work now but I'd love to hear what you're backing your opinion up with because from where we're sitting there is nothing."

Can someone explain what the word 'opinion' means to this oaf?

"All in all you've looked rather silly and hypocritical. If you don't think that goals, awards and references are a valid back up to my opinion when compared to the thin air you've offered then you're weird."

We were speaking specifically about awards/accolades and quotes, so don't try swing goals into the debate.

As I said previously, when I judge a player, I judge him on what he's capable of with the ball, not how many awards he has won.

posted on 4/9/12

I find it hilarious how one of the best, possibly the best way of classifying how good an individual player is, individual accolades is frowned upon in this thread.

comment by X (U4074)

posted on 4/9/12

Maybe because individual accolades tend to throw up some odd perhaps biased results. I find it odd for example that no Liverpool or Nottingham Forest player was considered good enough to win the Ballon D'or, despite their success.

Only Dalglish came 2nd once losing out to Platini in '83, and it wasn't exactly close with Kenny only getting 26 points to Platini's 110.

Sure Keegan won it twice, but he was only considered good enough when playing for Hamburg x

posted on 4/9/12

where is Andrea Pirlo?

comment by Herbie (U7136)

posted on 4/9/12

Michel Platini is the finest central midfield player to ever play the game. A playmaker in the mould of Pirlo who controlled games at his whim, orchestrating the pace and tempo of both his opponents and his team-mates and a goalscorer of this highest order at both international and domestic level - scoring goals at a rate of a centre forward in a domestic competition that probably ranks as the most defensively tough of all time.

When they say a player has everything, the person they should be comparing that player to is Michel Platini who really did have each and every attribute you could ever want from a midfield player who was the focus of a teams attacking crux. He saw passes before anyone else could anticipate and he sensed opportunities for space for he and his teammates to exploit before they existed. Incredible player - shame what he's become.

Other notable mentions:
Johan Neeskens
Franz Beckenbauer (before he moved to the Libero role)
Didi
Frank Rijkaard
Zinedine Zidane (though he primarily operated form the left in his pomp)
Michael Laudrup

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