So other international managers think we are changing the way we play and passing the ball more, but some angry half-wits on here think we're still hoofing everything 70 yards? I wonder who's right.
You have quoted one manager, i could give you 10 who still think we play the long ball.....
"You have quoted one manager, i could give you 10 who still think we play the long ball....."
Go on then.
hypothetically
http://www.espnstar.com/football/world-cup/news/detail/item853427/Kolarov:-Serbia-better-than-long-ball-Scotland/
I was trying to find others but Kolarov has took up the whole of google
NNH
Forrest - Played on Saturday (got 20 minutes and done more than Snodgrass the whole game).......and made that impact in those 20 mins becasue he was fresh up against tired legs no doubt
Mulgrew - Injured (when fit he still didn't start ahead of Caldwell or Berra).....who are both regular premiership players, or at least were until Wolves were relegated....Mulgrew has been good for Celtic, debatable if he is better than those two at CB though, he is a bit of a converted full back.....purely your opinion that Mulgrew, with 3 caps to his name, should start ahead of two guys with 72 caps between them
Rhodes - Played on Saturday (for 10 minutes)...and should have been given longer..only part I can agree with you on here
S Fletcher - Refuses to be considered for selection (because that phanny decided it was a good idea to play a game of football with no strikers)...... he did a Boyd, you can blame levein, the tactics, him not being named on the bench, whatever you want.....he did a Boyd the huffy bastirt, held mend the
I don't think anyone will deny me the fact Forrest has been on fire so far and surely deserved a place before Naismith (injury wise) as a rate that boy or Snodgrass who to me still doesn't offer anything on the wing, i think he's better behind the striker.
Fair enough regarding the amount of caps, do you think Levein will pick Mulgrew or Webster though? i wouldn't put it past him to chose Webster, that's my point about him really.
We don't really have anything to lose these days, just wish we would express ourselves more, the 4-5-1 doesn't get us to a championship so lets try 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and at least get some excitement or value for money
Oh and someone please tell me Bardsley is back before the next set of games, i cringe watching that wannabe hardman Hutton
NNH
Your goalposts are moving here
Earlier on in this very thread you said "a would have Naismith in my team every week as i said this morning."...now you are saying Forrest has been on fire and deserved a place before Naismith....which is it???
"Fair enough regarding the amount of caps, do you think Levein will pick Mulgrew or Webster though? i wouldn't put it past him to chose Webster, that's my point about him really."....what, that he likes Webster more than Mulgrew......a natural CB over a converted full back......a much more experienced CB......a guy with 26 caps, more than Berra has.
There are various things to look at when it comes to picking players mate....experience at international level counts for a lot and Mulgrew does not have much at all, Webster does, and is playing well in the SPL, as is Mulgrew
"We don't really have anything to lose these days, just wish we would express ourselves more, the 4-5-1 doesn't get us to a championship so lets try 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and at least get some excitement or value for money".....Levein cant win though!
IF he goes gung ho and we get gubbed he's slaughtered.
If he takes amore cautious approach and comes a missed chance away from winning a game he gets slaughtered.
Why not let the guy be a fcking manager, approach games the way he sees fit, get behind the team he puts out on the park and be the twelve man....instead of slating the guy 24/7, being very anxious in the support, booing when we fcking draw agasint a decent side, and hanging the guy out to dry when our qualifying campaign has neither faltred, collapsed nor nothing after a solitary bloody draw
"Fair enough regarding the amount of caps, do you think Levein will pick Mulgrew or Webster though? i wouldn't put it past him to chose Webster, that's my point about him really."
THAT's your point about him? That he prefers someone with far more experience in that position than Mulgrew?
That's a good thing, not a criticism.
No he would pick players who have far less ability than others.
Who would you have Webster or Mulgrew? I know who i would have fs.
Stevie, i meant if fit Naismith should be in the team every week but has he not only started 3 games in 10 months or something?
What's the point in going out of qualifying by losing graciously? i would rather get flucked 4-0 and have a go than beat 1-0.
All our previous groups have ended in "glorious failure" because we have missed opportunities for being absolute sh!t3bags to play to our strengths rather than focusing on others.
Czech Republic was one and i fear Saturday could be another one where at the end we look back and wonder.
Has Levein succeded at any big job?
"Who would you have Webster or Mulgrew? I know who i would have fs."
I'd probably go for Mulgrew myself, give him a chance, but perhaps not in the first qualifier of a campaign, and I at least understand WHY he has chosen Webster, you dont seem to
"What's the point in going out of qualifying by losing graciously? i would rather get flucked 4-0 and have a go than beat 1-0."
I would rather we approached games sensibly, played to our strengths and deployed the right formation and tactics with the players we have, taking the opposition into account.
Sometimes 4-5-1 in an attacking sense is the best way to go.....thats what Levein tried, and for the majority of the first half, we were in Serbia's half, pushing forward, making chances, forcing corners, coming close.
Second half we died away, and that when a change should have been made sooner, it wasnt and that is all I have slated Levein for.
We had a go.....we didnt get a goal when we were on top....we fell out of it....Levein waited too long to change things....we were back on top a little after he changed things, didnt take our chances then either...draw was a fair result.....I personally think that is a good summary of what happened on Saturda, and to me that is not losing graciously, nor is it not having a go, it was a sensible approach to an important game, with the biggest mistake being things were not changed quickly enough when we fell out of the game.
I hate to break it to you...but every single campaign Scotland has ever had near enough has ended in "glorious failure".....we do play to our strengths.....we are not master attackers, we are mediocre at the back, have a strong midfield and a have trouble scoring goals at times.....so we make the strongest area of the park our midfield, thats what we do
The Czech republic game was a huge error by Levein.....but it was TWO years ago!!!!
Two years ago, in a Europa League qualifier, Neil Lennon went to Utrect with a 2-0 lead.....put out a far too attacking side, and his team got gubbed 4-0.
Two years on, he has learned from that, and he has got his team through to the Champions League groups.
The team we have the now is not the team or tactics used in the czech game.....the manager has learned from that too...sick of hearing about tht bloody czech game, it was a huge mistake, but one Levein will NEVER make again thats for sure!!...same way Lennon will not take a team to an away qualifier and lose 4 goals
"Has Levein succeded at any big job?"
That's the real issue, I feel. He hasn't managed Rangers and he hasn't managed Celtic, and he hasn't played for either of them. Therefore he can't really know what he's doing.
I'm not saying that's your point NNH, but I think it's behind a lot of the criticism of him.
He was a success at Utd and a success at Hearts, and he had no chance at Leicester.
It's also worth bearing in mind that the last 2 managers who got us to a major finals didn't win anything as players or managers - The Scotland job was their first major job.
That's the real issue, I feel. He hasn't managed Rangers and he hasn't managed Celtic, and he hasn't played for either of them. Therefore he can't really knowwhat he's doing."
No one is saying that.
the real issue here barcelona is that you struggle to contain your bitterness towards the OF, your true colours are showing here. the tartan army are full of your ilk which is why many rangers and celtic fans feel isolated from the national team.
this has hee-haw to do with Rangers or Celtic, we are discussing the national team ffs!
" We pumped Wales last year, and he was in charge. And Wales are in our group."
The wales that mob played last year was not the same side that will line up against that bunch. They are a far better team at the moment as they have given their youngsters a chance in previous campaigns.
I am an old firm fan, I am a Scotland fan.
I see and hear so many things from old firm fans when it comes to Scotland...many of them cannot take teh old firm hat off for a second and put the scotland one on.
I totally and utterly agre with Barca.....when he first got the job, the criticism of him was that he had never won anything, and any manager that hasnt won anything isnt good....this line came from old firm fans and ONLY came from old firm fans.
The real issue is, partially as Barca says, old firm fans just dont rte him coz he's not one of them and he's not won anything....the rest of the issue, is that bloody czech game, which will just not be forgotten about.
People seem to be able to forget what Steven Fletcher did pretty easily in an effort to have a go at Levein.
Funny how one game, one mistake, and one very poor choice of tactics is absolutely in no way being forgiven and is the only thing that defines Craig Levein's Scotland tenure.....there's been a lot more to it than that, so much more
"the real issue here barcelona is that you struggle to contain your bitterness towards the OF, your true colours are showing here. the tartan army are full of your ilk which is why many rangers and celtic fans feel isolated from the national team."
It's not about "bitterness" toward the Old Firm, it's about the fact that many of their fans consider Levein an inferior manager by dint of the fact he's never won an SPL title, as if that's the only yardstick for success.
"the tartan army are full of your ilk which is why many rangers and celtic fans feel isolated from the national team."
The tartan army is also full of Rangers and Celtic fans - Why the ones who stay at home feel isolated is a question for them.
I'd love to hear what my ilk is, by the way.
If Levein gets us to Brazil i will happily let you all fire paintballs at me naked from close range.
I hope i'm wrong, i really do, but i just can't get my head round some of the guys tactics, decisions, i really can't
NNH, I'm not optimistic to be honest. Hopeful, but not optimistic.
My worry is that Levein doesn't get long enough to see through the institutional changes he's making, due to results on the pitch.
He's made some errors, but he's also been very unlucky. None of the personal criticism of him is relevant, but the tactical criticism of him is usually well wide of the mark.
Comparatively speaking, he's made far fewer glaring tactical errors than Lennon when it comes to big games, and he's still in a job.
Lennon has turned that round though in a shorter space of time (correct me if i'm wrong mate)
His win percentage is 33% and i just find that shocking to be honest, we can't move forward with a manager who is happy with a draw at home against a side who lets be honest aren't 10 times better than us
"Lennon has turned that round though in a shorter space of time (correct me if i'm wrong mate)"
He's turned it around in about the same space of time, but over almost 100 games, while Levein only has his squad together about 5 or 6 times a year - It's amuch longer-term job turning a national team's fortunes around than it is a club's.
"His win percentage is 33% and i just find that shocking to be honest, we can't move forward with a manager who is happy with a draw at home against a side who lets be honest aren't 10 times better than us"
He's not happy with it, but he has to at least try to be positive. Where has he said he was happy with the draw? He said it wasn't what they wanted but it wasn't a disaster. That's perfectly true.
NNH
Just say it
You dont like the man...simples.
Doesnt matter what he does.....we could play 4 strikers and win 10-0 the night, and you'd still no like him....right?
For what it's worth, I objected in the strongest possible terms to his shades on Saturday. I mean what was that all about? He looked like Suggs from Madness..
By the way St3vie, credit to you for taking my point about Levein not having played for or managed the Old Firm. It's the sort of nuanced observation that usually gets folks back up but that I think is perfectly legit.
All this "he's no won anything" garbage. What use is an SPL title in a 2-horse race to someone trying to reconstruct the national team?
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Levein
Page 5 of 5
posted on 10/9/12
So other international managers think we are changing the way we play and passing the ball more, but some angry half-wits on here think we're still hoofing everything 70 yards? I wonder who's right.
You have quoted one manager, i could give you 10 who still think we play the long ball.....
posted on 10/9/12
"You have quoted one manager, i could give you 10 who still think we play the long ball....."
Go on then.
posted on 10/9/12
hypothetically
http://www.espnstar.com/football/world-cup/news/detail/item853427/Kolarov:-Serbia-better-than-long-ball-Scotland/
I was trying to find others but Kolarov has took up the whole of google
posted on 10/9/12
NNH
Forrest - Played on Saturday (got 20 minutes and done more than Snodgrass the whole game).......and made that impact in those 20 mins becasue he was fresh up against tired legs no doubt
Mulgrew - Injured (when fit he still didn't start ahead of Caldwell or Berra).....who are both regular premiership players, or at least were until Wolves were relegated....Mulgrew has been good for Celtic, debatable if he is better than those two at CB though, he is a bit of a converted full back.....purely your opinion that Mulgrew, with 3 caps to his name, should start ahead of two guys with 72 caps between them
Rhodes - Played on Saturday (for 10 minutes)...and should have been given longer..only part I can agree with you on here
S Fletcher - Refuses to be considered for selection (because that phanny decided it was a good idea to play a game of football with no strikers)...... he did a Boyd, you can blame levein, the tactics, him not being named on the bench, whatever you want.....he did a Boyd the huffy bastirt, held mend the
posted on 10/9/12
I don't think anyone will deny me the fact Forrest has been on fire so far and surely deserved a place before Naismith (injury wise) as a rate that boy or Snodgrass who to me still doesn't offer anything on the wing, i think he's better behind the striker.
Fair enough regarding the amount of caps, do you think Levein will pick Mulgrew or Webster though? i wouldn't put it past him to chose Webster, that's my point about him really.
We don't really have anything to lose these days, just wish we would express ourselves more, the 4-5-1 doesn't get us to a championship so lets try 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and at least get some excitement or value for money
posted on 10/9/12
Oh and someone please tell me Bardsley is back before the next set of games, i cringe watching that wannabe hardman Hutton
posted on 10/9/12
NNH
Your goalposts are moving here
Earlier on in this very thread you said "a would have Naismith in my team every week as i said this morning."...now you are saying Forrest has been on fire and deserved a place before Naismith....which is it???
"Fair enough regarding the amount of caps, do you think Levein will pick Mulgrew or Webster though? i wouldn't put it past him to chose Webster, that's my point about him really."....what, that he likes Webster more than Mulgrew......a natural CB over a converted full back......a much more experienced CB......a guy with 26 caps, more than Berra has.
There are various things to look at when it comes to picking players mate....experience at international level counts for a lot and Mulgrew does not have much at all, Webster does, and is playing well in the SPL, as is Mulgrew
"We don't really have anything to lose these days, just wish we would express ourselves more, the 4-5-1 doesn't get us to a championship so lets try 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and at least get some excitement or value for money".....Levein cant win though!
IF he goes gung ho and we get gubbed he's slaughtered.
If he takes amore cautious approach and comes a missed chance away from winning a game he gets slaughtered.
Why not let the guy be a fcking manager, approach games the way he sees fit, get behind the team he puts out on the park and be the twelve man....instead of slating the guy 24/7, being very anxious in the support, booing when we fcking draw agasint a decent side, and hanging the guy out to dry when our qualifying campaign has neither faltred, collapsed nor nothing after a solitary bloody draw
posted on 10/9/12
"Fair enough regarding the amount of caps, do you think Levein will pick Mulgrew or Webster though? i wouldn't put it past him to chose Webster, that's my point about him really."
THAT's your point about him? That he prefers someone with far more experience in that position than Mulgrew?
That's a good thing, not a criticism.
posted on 10/9/12
No he would pick players who have far less ability than others.
Who would you have Webster or Mulgrew? I know who i would have fs.
Stevie, i meant if fit Naismith should be in the team every week but has he not only started 3 games in 10 months or something?
What's the point in going out of qualifying by losing graciously? i would rather get flucked 4-0 and have a go than beat 1-0.
All our previous groups have ended in "glorious failure" because we have missed opportunities for being absolute sh!t3bags to play to our strengths rather than focusing on others.
Czech Republic was one and i fear Saturday could be another one where at the end we look back and wonder.
Has Levein succeded at any big job?
posted on 10/9/12
"Who would you have Webster or Mulgrew? I know who i would have fs."
I'd probably go for Mulgrew myself, give him a chance, but perhaps not in the first qualifier of a campaign, and I at least understand WHY he has chosen Webster, you dont seem to
"What's the point in going out of qualifying by losing graciously? i would rather get flucked 4-0 and have a go than beat 1-0."
I would rather we approached games sensibly, played to our strengths and deployed the right formation and tactics with the players we have, taking the opposition into account.
Sometimes 4-5-1 in an attacking sense is the best way to go.....thats what Levein tried, and for the majority of the first half, we were in Serbia's half, pushing forward, making chances, forcing corners, coming close.
Second half we died away, and that when a change should have been made sooner, it wasnt and that is all I have slated Levein for.
We had a go.....we didnt get a goal when we were on top....we fell out of it....Levein waited too long to change things....we were back on top a little after he changed things, didnt take our chances then either...draw was a fair result.....I personally think that is a good summary of what happened on Saturda, and to me that is not losing graciously, nor is it not having a go, it was a sensible approach to an important game, with the biggest mistake being things were not changed quickly enough when we fell out of the game.
I hate to break it to you...but every single campaign Scotland has ever had near enough has ended in "glorious failure".....we do play to our strengths.....we are not master attackers, we are mediocre at the back, have a strong midfield and a have trouble scoring goals at times.....so we make the strongest area of the park our midfield, thats what we do
The Czech republic game was a huge error by Levein.....but it was TWO years ago!!!!
Two years ago, in a Europa League qualifier, Neil Lennon went to Utrect with a 2-0 lead.....put out a far too attacking side, and his team got gubbed 4-0.
Two years on, he has learned from that, and he has got his team through to the Champions League groups.
The team we have the now is not the team or tactics used in the czech game.....the manager has learned from that too...sick of hearing about tht bloody czech game, it was a huge mistake, but one Levein will NEVER make again thats for sure!!...same way Lennon will not take a team to an away qualifier and lose 4 goals
posted on 10/9/12
"Has Levein succeded at any big job?"
That's the real issue, I feel. He hasn't managed Rangers and he hasn't managed Celtic, and he hasn't played for either of them. Therefore he can't really know what he's doing.
I'm not saying that's your point NNH, but I think it's behind a lot of the criticism of him.
He was a success at Utd and a success at Hearts, and he had no chance at Leicester.
It's also worth bearing in mind that the last 2 managers who got us to a major finals didn't win anything as players or managers - The Scotland job was their first major job.
posted on 10/9/12
That's the real issue, I feel. He hasn't managed Rangers and he hasn't managed Celtic, and he hasn't played for either of them. Therefore he can't really knowwhat he's doing."
No one is saying that.
posted on 10/9/12
the real issue here barcelona is that you struggle to contain your bitterness towards the OF, your true colours are showing here. the tartan army are full of your ilk which is why many rangers and celtic fans feel isolated from the national team.
this has hee-haw to do with Rangers or Celtic, we are discussing the national team ffs!
posted on 10/9/12
" We pumped Wales last year, and he was in charge. And Wales are in our group."
The wales that mob played last year was not the same side that will line up against that bunch. They are a far better team at the moment as they have given their youngsters a chance in previous campaigns.
posted on 11/9/12
I am an old firm fan, I am a Scotland fan.
I see and hear so many things from old firm fans when it comes to Scotland...many of them cannot take teh old firm hat off for a second and put the scotland one on.
I totally and utterly agre with Barca.....when he first got the job, the criticism of him was that he had never won anything, and any manager that hasnt won anything isnt good....this line came from old firm fans and ONLY came from old firm fans.
The real issue is, partially as Barca says, old firm fans just dont rte him coz he's not one of them and he's not won anything....the rest of the issue, is that bloody czech game, which will just not be forgotten about.
People seem to be able to forget what Steven Fletcher did pretty easily in an effort to have a go at Levein.
Funny how one game, one mistake, and one very poor choice of tactics is absolutely in no way being forgiven and is the only thing that defines Craig Levein's Scotland tenure.....there's been a lot more to it than that, so much more
posted on 11/9/12
"the real issue here barcelona is that you struggle to contain your bitterness towards the OF, your true colours are showing here. the tartan army are full of your ilk which is why many rangers and celtic fans feel isolated from the national team."
It's not about "bitterness" toward the Old Firm, it's about the fact that many of their fans consider Levein an inferior manager by dint of the fact he's never won an SPL title, as if that's the only yardstick for success.
posted on 11/9/12
"the tartan army are full of your ilk which is why many rangers and celtic fans feel isolated from the national team."
The tartan army is also full of Rangers and Celtic fans - Why the ones who stay at home feel isolated is a question for them.
I'd love to hear what my ilk is, by the way.
posted on 11/9/12
If Levein gets us to Brazil i will happily let you all fire paintballs at me naked from close range.
I hope i'm wrong, i really do, but i just can't get my head round some of the guys tactics, decisions, i really can't
posted on 11/9/12
NNH, I'm not optimistic to be honest. Hopeful, but not optimistic.
My worry is that Levein doesn't get long enough to see through the institutional changes he's making, due to results on the pitch.
He's made some errors, but he's also been very unlucky. None of the personal criticism of him is relevant, but the tactical criticism of him is usually well wide of the mark.
Comparatively speaking, he's made far fewer glaring tactical errors than Lennon when it comes to big games, and he's still in a job.
posted on 11/9/12
Lennon has turned that round though in a shorter space of time (correct me if i'm wrong mate)
His win percentage is 33% and i just find that shocking to be honest, we can't move forward with a manager who is happy with a draw at home against a side who lets be honest aren't 10 times better than us
posted on 11/9/12
"Lennon has turned that round though in a shorter space of time (correct me if i'm wrong mate)"
He's turned it around in about the same space of time, but over almost 100 games, while Levein only has his squad together about 5 or 6 times a year - It's amuch longer-term job turning a national team's fortunes around than it is a club's.
"His win percentage is 33% and i just find that shocking to be honest, we can't move forward with a manager who is happy with a draw at home against a side who lets be honest aren't 10 times better than us"
He's not happy with it, but he has to at least try to be positive. Where has he said he was happy with the draw? He said it wasn't what they wanted but it wasn't a disaster. That's perfectly true.
posted on 11/9/12
NNH
Just say it
You dont like the man...simples.
Doesnt matter what he does.....we could play 4 strikers and win 10-0 the night, and you'd still no like him....right?
posted on 11/9/12
For what it's worth, I objected in the strongest possible terms to his shades on Saturday. I mean what was that all about? He looked like Suggs from Madness..
posted on 11/9/12
By the way St3vie, credit to you for taking my point about Levein not having played for or managed the Old Firm. It's the sort of nuanced observation that usually gets folks back up but that I think is perfectly legit.
All this "he's no won anything" garbage. What use is an SPL title in a 2-horse race to someone trying to reconstruct the national team?
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