If he had enough time to fall over before the tackle came, he had enough time to ride the challenge.

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Why should he ride the challenge though? The defender was still impeding his run so why is he obligated to try and get out of the way?

@ RDBD: I guess I was a little more determined to stay upright than some then! I wasn't a big player, (5'10" and 12 1/2 St) so maybe I had an advantage over the bigger guys in that I wasn't carrying as much weight to be used to topple me.

I do see you point, but if someone I played Rugby with went down as easily as some footballers do, they'd get a kicking from the rest of the team.

I think your old man talks sense. I would say a dive is a player choosing to go to ground, even if there is contact it doesnt mean it will knock you down.
But he makes a great point in that riding a challenge gives a big advantage to the defender, so why put effort into staying up?

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For me a dive is when someone doesn't try to stay on his feet, simple as that.

Everyone remembers playing as a kid - you keep running when you've been clipped. You might eventually go over, at which point it's a foul, or you might get no advantage, at which point it's a foul.

Players who go over when there's contact when they don't need to are diving, simple as that for me. There are some masters of the art in the prem (one in particular not too far south west of here).

Obviously the cheating element when there's no contact is a different matter altogether.

'Why should he ride the challenge though? The defender was still impeding his run so why is he obligated to try and get out of the way?'

Maybe to try and legitimately score (or create) a goal from open play?

You're an MU fan, so surely you have see George Best's highlights. Have a look how many times he was 'impeded' and how many time he rode the challenge and went on to create an opening for him or a team mate. And those were brutal challenges being put on him.

HMMurdoch - pretty much what I'm saying.

comment by Dubbed The New Wenger -Sancti Cazorla (U9163)
posted 33 minutes ago

Fellani is rubbish. Big oaf who stands in the middle bullying and elbowing midgets.

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lets hope he gives that pr111ck wilshere one in the chops

There's 3 things that are important for me on this subject, and that's the difference between a dive, simulation and losing your footing.Sometimes a player is tackled, the defender wins the ball but the momentum of the tackle causes the player to lose his footing and go down, fair enough. Simulation is when the player 'makes the most' of a tackle, could be a fair one, could be a foul but the player roles around, holds their face when they were kicked on the ankle, that sort of things. Then there's a dive, no contact is made but the player falls to the floor anyway, dive.

HMMurdoch :

Stopped playing school rugby as a winger at age 15, at 5'2" and 6-7st at best. I had 4 yrs of learning how best to flatten the immovable object and try and stay on your feet under all forms of contact.

Wilshere's a great guy.

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"Have a look how many times he was 'impeded' and how many time he rode the challenge and went on to create an opening for him or a team mate."

And Messi is one of the best exponents of trying to ride the tackle as often as possible (though he has his CR7 moments) .

'Why should he ride the challenge though? The defender was still impeding his run so why is he obligated to try and get out of the way?'

Maybe to try and legitimately score (or create) a goal from open play?
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But if the chance goes because of the defender's challenge, and the challenge, albeit illegal, goes unpunished because the attacker jumps out of the way, is that not some kind of deception on the part of the defender? They do know what they are doing

Thing about modern day football is that if you don't go down a foul will probably not be awarded, therefore it is fine to go down easily as long as you feel that you are fouled.

'But if the chance goes because of the defender's challenge, and the challenge, albeit illegal, goes unpunished because the attacker jumps out of the way, is that not some kind of deception on the part of the defender? They do know what they are doing'

Then that's down to the ref and the law makers. There needs to be more punishment for the intent of the challenge as well as the consequences of it.

It's not always the attacking side that get the advantage with this sort of thing. How many times do you see a goalie come for a cross, jumping into a group of players (or the back of a single attacker) with little chances of reaching the ball and getting a foul in his favour? Where is the uproar about that?

At the end of the day, football is a contact sport, I think a lot of people in the game have forgotten that.

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'But if the chance goes because of the defender's challenge, and the challenge, albeit illegal, goes unpunished because the attacker jumps out of the way, is that not some kind of deception on the part of the defender? They do know what they are doing'

Another thought.

In addition to that which I posted, surely the ref would play an advantage, and if no chance came, come back for the foul.

"In addition to that which I posted, surely the ref would play an advantage, and if no chance came, come back for the foul."

And 10m retreat for dissent to the ref ...

In addition to that which I posted, surely the ref would play an advantage, and if no chance came, come back for the foul.

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Not if there was no contact because the attacker had jumped out of the way. That's my point or the old man's point to be more accurate

I agree that a player should not be punished for trying to avoid a challenge, but is throwing yourself to the ground the best way to tackle that issue?

Surely there are (probably poorly enforced) laws which protect the attacker in these circumstances?

Again, it comes back to the officials on and off the pitch.

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I defended Ronaldo on that one and got accused of being a closet manc

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