He would rather go looking in the lower leagues than bringing our youth system through. That's different to what he told me and other Derby fans a couple of seasons ago at a Derby County forum, at Pride Park. Even Glick said it, (cough)

It strikes me as a little strange for a couple of reasons:

The 1st being that obviously they are in the team for tonight, why bother playing them in friendly matches when Clough has no desire to play them in the league.

The 2nd is that clearly money is tight which can be seen by the slow down in our transfer activity and our lower league signings in previous years, surely the cheaper option is to take a chance on a youth player. If Clough starts to use these youth players and they are a hit he would be praised for his vision, if they fail then he hasn't really lost much as they havent cost him anything.

They can still play they just are not in the original squad of 23, and all of them that are in the 23 you would expect to be?......

GT i understand that they still can play but it's more of the message it sends to them that there isnt much chance of a 1st team spot this season.

I actually am going to contradict myself a little here but I actually feel a loan spell at a league 1 or 2 club could be good for Ball.

Like that for most clubs though Watford seem to promote their youngster, maybe ours just are not quite ready?

Ball has just score against the Macc Lads 1-1

This won't be the final squad list I am sure, as when Green comes back he will be given a number. Interesting to see Leacock and Bywater not given numbers, i expect they will be gone by September the 1st. And hopefully we get a number 8 before the start of the season.

Young players have every chance to impress the manager in training and reserve games. The main reason they are not included is that they haven't performed well enough in the opinion of the manager. This is the norm. In over 40 years of watching Derby I can think of only one player from our youth team who left for a lower division club and subsequently made it to the top as a player. Out of the hundreds of players the vast majority ended up in lower league or none league football. All clubs have this massive wastage of talent. It's one of the harsh facts of choosing professional football as a career.

Loaning out promising youngsters to lower league clubs is a good way of seeing whether they have the right character for the game. However if they were really promising would you want to loan them out.

Good points! Out of curiosity Spartacus who was the one player?

I noticed Boulding is still around....now I hope that it isn't Michael Boulding and it is in fact Claire. If she had the ball I reckon no bloke would try and tackle her..

Looks like Ball's bagged a brace! Doesn't look like he's getting overlooked to me!

amber: I'm a bit worried about this Cate blanchett fella, looks bit light on his feet to me...

you'd tackle it tho' Mojaca

I think the youngsters will get their chance (be promoted to the first team squad) if they continue to perform, Ball scored twice this evening against Macclesfield.

On another tangent, the writing is on the wall for both Leacock & Bywater.

I'm not Spartacus:
good points The wastage of young players is the cruel flipside to all the glamour. I started following us in the mid 80s and can remember how the likes of Justin Phillips (injury) were lauded, only never to make it, Mark Stallard was a neat & tidy player, Darren Wrack showed glimpses but went down the divisions. On the other hand, few of the players we've let go have progressed elsewhere.

BTW, who was the one player you in question you mentioned?

Clough has said that he thinks Ball, O'Brien and Hendrick are potential first-team players and that Hendrick is nearest to this at the moment.

It's not as simple as "If they're good enough, they're old enough". Ferguson sent the likes of Beckham out to lower league teams for experience because he felt it meant that he learned the trade better by regularly playing at that level than by being chucked in at the deep end. While some undoubtedly have that magic "nous" naturally at a young age, like Rooney, many more need to get experience, learn positional play, etc, and this takes time. Players mature at different speeds, some positions need more learning than others and of course it also depends on who the team-mates are. If you're Steve Powell aged 16, and your centre-half partner is Roy Macfarland, then it's different than, say, if you are Mark O'Brien partnering Leacock.

Expect Ball and O'Brien to spend plenty of time elsewhere this season, at least the first half of the season, and maybe at Burton. Clough will learn a lot more about how they might progress than by reserve footy or the odd ten minutes here and there when they are either too nervous or over-keen to make an impression. I have to say, I think all three are good prospects and I also think that Hendrick might emerge first as a regular player.

The 2nd is that clearly money is tight which can be seen by the slow down in our transfer activity and our lower league signings in previous years, surely the cheaper option is to take a chance on a youth player. If Clough starts to use these youth players and they are a hit he would be praised for his vision, if they fail then he hasn't really lost much as they havent cost him anything.

=======================================================

Money doesn't seem to be very tight this summer! There's probably 2-3 clubs in the division that can match our spending.

Ball is an interesting one because he's a different type of striker to the ones we already have. Could he fill the target man role?

Do you think?

Not sure Ball has the strength and presence to be a target man. Are we thinking about the same striker?

For those curious the only player I can think of who was rejected by Derby, went to play in the lower leagues and then came good was Phil Boyer. Played in our very successful reserves for several years without making a first team appearance, went to York City and eventually to Southampton where he was capped for England. If anyone can name other players who didn't make it at Derby but were very successful elsewhere I would be interested as I can't think of any other.

I often wonder why we go to the expense of an academy when we seem to use Burton and Crewe as our feeder clubs.

Like the look of Ball, and by the match report his second goal was a good one. Hope he gets his chance, along with Hendrick.

Hi,

New to the website however been a follower of 606 and ja606 for a while. Thought i'd sign up to give my view on last night's match. With regards to the younger players, the two that started the match were the best players of the first half. Ball looked dangerous everytime he had the ball and had a few chances and scored two good goals. Connelly had a good game in centre midfield, always wanting the ball and looked comfortable in possession. The left back from Crewe looked average, no better than Roberts but steady. Hope this helps
HR

Ian Evatt. Released by Derby or sold for pittance to Blackpool when they were down in League Two. Last season played in the Premier League and has become a decent defender and would easily command a fee of
£1 million +.

Well observed, Desi - I think Evatt deserves a lot of credit because I don't think he is the best, but he's done well. With the news about Leacock possibly going, I can't help thinking Leacock failed to raise his game in contrast to Evatt.

As for the youngsters, I've seen a Rams Player interview with Hendrick and he comes across as a quiet but levelled headed and confident lad. The fact that he is part of young Irish U19 team that qualified for this current tournament for the first time in nearly a decade must show they have some talented players and he is part of this group.

I think Ball is capable of developing into a target man, he possesses the physique and surely the award of a three year contract must be an indication of the high regard in which the manager holds him. Nigel Clough gets a lot of criticism, but he played as a striker (and alongside different types of frontmen), so he should know.

As said above, the three prospects: O'Brien, Ball & Hendrick sound decent and that can only bode well considering the fact we must develop our own players.

Mick Quinn was at Derby and released before breaking thro' into the 1st team