So Kevin Davies is your scapegoat for relegation then.

If you consult last season's league table you'll notice that we scored plenty of goals at the end of the pitch Kevin Davies plays at, and conceded far too many at the end of the pitch Kevin Davies doesn't play at.

I'm not saying you don't make any valid points, but the ones you do make, I've read many, many times before.

I would argue that it was the West Brom game that got us relegated...or the referee at Stoke...or the etc etc etc.

But I suppose you could say that about any game in which we didn't get 3 points.

Trotter, every manager we have had since Davies was signed has played him.

Of course I realise that you know better than them.

Enough said.

I agree that KD should be dropped. I've thought he has been poor and a hindrance to the team more often than not in the past 12 months.

Early signs from DF suggest that he won't play as often, but the early signs from Coyle suggested that too.

I think he slows everything down and nullifies our own threat of moving the ball quickly, utilising out ball players like Mavies, Eagles, CYL, N'Gog and even Sordell.

As for relegation, I think it started to sink in at Wigan. Played 451, went unbeaten on 3 and changes to 442 vs Wigan at home because we thought we could walk over them. We subsequently got battered.

Of course Kevin Davies should play anymore... just as an impact sub if we are in need of a last minute goal. He is also very useful in the final 20 minutes running around putting pressure on the opposition defenders. The argument agaist starting with him has got stronger and strong over the last 18 months, I suppose it happens to all forwards his age.

My long running little joke is that SKD is like playing with 10 men ....and he is now working on getting his 6th manager fired.
For the umpteenth time ....nothing against his comittment or personal attitutde Just football ability and for the future of our club. How do we move forward like this? Now I read Sordell may be put out on loan....Ngog is injured most of the time and Adofe is a loanee.
Open to any idea of how all this is progress?

Who is our second highest scorer this season?

Do goals still win games or has that changed?

Enough said in my mind.

Phase him out gradually by all means but show the guy abit of damned respect! Until one of the other strikers steps up to the mark and starts scoring regularly expect to see Davies play.

This is tripe - lets see why
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I have held a strong opinion against Kevin Davies particularly in the last 18 months, and I firmly believe that he is not the man to carry us forward,
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Valid opinion - i disagree, but i suppose is valid

and that is not in a years time or even 6 months time, he has to be dropped on saturday, never to start again (barring any catastrophic injury crisis of course).
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Drop your top goalscorer.....classic bolton fan logic

I feel he is of massive detriment to the team, encouraging Bogdan and the Centre Halves to play the long ball every single time. Now I'm not saying that the long ball is a bad thing, because Ngog is an excellent player at holding the ball up and exploiting the channels, this is something that Davies cannot do
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This is my main upheaval - this is rubbish. You are blaming SKD for our centre halfs and goalkeeper for knocking it long. You ignore that its the manager who instructs them to play a certain way, and the player kicking the ball is responsible for the kick he has just made.

I believe his return to the side is what ultimately led to our relegation, Coyle dropped him late december and we had a much better run, beating both merseyside clubs and getting a draw with arsenal. Then for no good reason at all he is brought back into the side vs wigan, and it is that game that cost us our premier league status.
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So not the inept decision made by coyle, but its the players fault, not the rubbish signings of which only holden has proved to be any good (in the prem), not the rubbish tactics, lacklustre performances, lack of effort throughout the team, etc etc.....just SKD.....seriously!!!??

But it happened, and we have to get on with it. We were in a position where promotion at the start of the season was a realistic option, but I always felt that as long as davies was in the side we would go nowhere. When dougie dropped him for the game against blackpool I felt we were much more of a threat up front (even more so if petrov would have been playing in the correct position...). With the new manager in charge I believe it is the prime opportunity to strip him of the captaincy, drop him and begin a new era at BWFC.
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Perhaps a loss to Barnsley without SKD would of made you more chirpy about our most hardworking committed player.



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i completely accept Davies has his limitations, and if we want to play poncey football he isnt our man, but i down right refuse to accept Ngog is the man for this also. Each manager we have had since BSA hasnt set up the team to SKD's strength, but still played long ball, its been ridiculous, seeing it knocked long to an isolated SKD. That isnt SKD's fault, it entirely lies with the manager, he instructs the team to play a certain way, and failed to set-up the team to support SKD.

zkat and OP - I think I have the solution, but it will be brave of DF to do what I am about to suggest.

I would call SKD, Sordell and Ngog into the office (individually and in that order) and

1. Tell KD that I am going to try a new formation for a few weeks. I'd explain that for whatever reason things aren't working. I would ask him, as captain, to be fully behind the decision and be professional about it.

2. Tell Sordell that his chance has arrived and to embrace it. Explain that training will focus on forming a partnership with Ngog and although it may take a few games for it to work, that I will stick with it for a few weeks.

3. Tell Ngog the same as Sordell and that I expect him to put the extra effort in with Marvin to make the partnership work.

My thinking is that OC, JP and now DF have tried everything but a sustained period of 4-4-2 with Sordell and Ngog up front. This can be risked on 2 counts. First, the current set-up isn't working. Secondly, with Spearing playing a genuine DM role, we can go to 4-4-2 and still offer the defence assistance (and god knows they need it!!)

So basically, we need to try something different, and SKD should be big enough to do what is in the best interests of the team. Of course he wants to play every week, but he does have the club at heart so I would hope he would accept this decision.

p.s. Trotters Fan - nothing wrong with creating articles that have been written before - at least it get debate going

fair enough CEF - but i am sure you can see ti isnt SKD's fault we got relegated but down to the manager in charge....who hasnt had the conversation you talk about

Clegg - I was really replying to zkat's comment which finished with

'Open to any idea of how all this is progress?'

We all know that there were many reasons we got relegated. It certainly wasn't only KD's fault. But it also wasn't only OC's fault. A club is a lot of individuals who all play a part.

OC shoulders a large part of the blame in my eyes, but not sole blame.

BWFCClegg,

What Kevin Davies can do, is put the ball in the back of the net, you have to admit it's more than Ngog has done for us to date.

Please don't tell me he hasn't had the opportunity or we haven't been playing the right player alongside him, or that he hasn't had the service. A good striker will create his own chances and find the back of the net.

I know Davies will have less time on the pitch as time goes on but until we have a better quality striker in the squad, he will get playing time.

By the way, I do hope that Ngog comes good because we can't afford to throw 4 million down the drain.

Nobody has ever said it is SKD's fault.

Managers pick the team and so-called tactics.

Putting aside all the arguments on this matter for a moment. I repeat my question ....how is playing SKD for 90 minutes considered a move forward for my club? Are we going into next season with a 37 -38 year old? is that the master plan?

In an ideal world I would love Davies to be phased out, but I have no faith in any of the other strikers at the club to do any better. A good twenty minutes (before stupidly getting sent off) from Ngog doesn't count, in my eyes, as proof he's ready to be the main man up front.

Another thing mentioned in the op was Bogdan's distribution. While I take on board he may be more inclined to lump it when Davies is on the pitch that doesn't make it his fault. Surely the blame lies with the manager, coaches and ultimately Bogdan himself. The worst example of this for me was Everton at home last season when he spent 70 minutes putting the ball on Fellaini's head while Davies got nowhere near any of them. Even on Saturday the fullbacks got out wide and were screaming for the ball a good few times and Bogdan still lumped it up towards Davies. The once or twice he did roll it out to a defender you could hear ironic cheers from the stands.

*Can I apologise for using the phrase 'I take on board'. I'll be saying the manager needs to think 'out of the box' next.

My thinking is that OC, JP and now DF have tried everything but a sustained period of 4-4-2 with Sordell and Ngog up front.

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Absolutely perfectly put.

Look, it's not that KD is rubbish, it's nt that N'Gog is a genius. They clearly both aren't. My gripe is that they should all be starting on a level playing field - metaphorically of course - and that they all should have a decent amount of time on the pitch so that DF can judge accordingly.

KD certainly takes first dibs. Sordell feeds off scraps. N'Gog is usually somewhere in the middle.

Since DF came in, KD will have played the lions share of minutes, Sordell has played none. I don't think that's fair. As a new manager, you would want to see everyone play in matches at the same level to be able to judge properly. Not training, matches.

As it happens, N'Gog has taken his chances since DF arrived. What I can't understand is why people think N'Gog hasn't taken his chances, since DF arrived? I think he has done more than KD is the past 4 games despite being on the pitch less.

If your a Championship side facing Bolton and SKD is starting you immediately know the following.
1. Bolton will lump balls up to him
2. Refs have a negative image of him, so Centre halfs can get away with more than usual
3. He wont run with the ball, as he has no pace, so the only threat would come via the wings.
4. If he does win the ball, and based on DF's tactics, there will be no one around to pick the knock downs up.
5. If he stays on the field past 60 mins he's as good as done.

As with all problems, you need to offer a solution.
Mine would be to do away completely with the concept of a centre forward and hence force our lot to play from the back. In this mode Eagles and Mavies would be pivotal feeding off two defensive midfielders and allowing the DF to select two pacy attackers complete the offence.

Rowbot. Apart from the Cardiff game, which he partly spoiled with the stupid sending off, when has he taken his chance? He was awful Saturday. I put a fair chunk of blame on him for the Barnsley equaliser. He just let the lad on the ball go cut inside him on the wing with no attempt to chase him down or pressure him, the lad squared it and Davies stuck it in the corner.

There may be a case for forwards not getting back to defend.... however I have yet to see Robin Van P or Berbatov or Messi humping back to make a boatload of tackles. That is not a primary reason to rate strikers IMO.
If you do then explain why SKD spends the last 30 minutes of most games just strolling around knarkered. Usually he does is pattented sliding tackling near the beginning of the game....for the warning or yellow card....the crowd cheers ....

Zkat. My comment was in regard to Ngog taking his chance under Freedman which in my opinion he hasn't.

Ngog played on the wing on Saturday and there's every case for wingers getting back to cover. Isn't Petrov criticised for his unwillingness to put a shift in? Don't get me wrong, I'd happily see Davies dropped if I thought there was a better option, I just don't think Ngog is it.

Ngog played on the wing on Saturday and there's every case for wingers getting back to cover.

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That's the point isn't it? He is a striker.

He played upfront v Blackpool and we played well. KD came back v Barsnley. N'Gog moved to right wing and we were poor by all accounts.

WATOAOW: We will have to agree to difer then. Which is the reason fans get to write on here. It's all good stuff.

I'll still argue that some combination of Ngog/Sordell/Adofe/Eaves is still better than SKD.

But as OC told us ....we know nowt about football.

I really don't get the opposition to dropping SKD. We have literally tried everything except a 4-4-2 without SKD. Maybe even a 4-3-3 with Afobe, N'Gog and Sordell? I get that DF wants to try things, but I'm not seeing him try anything radical or try anything different from OC.

I think SKD is Mr Bolton, but surely the time is right to try something different before we lose Sordell for peanuts and N'Gog hands in a transfer request and we are left with no strikers.

TRR, as it happens Ngog has taken his chances, so how many goals has he scored?

Our other strikers should hang their heads in shame. At 36 SKD should be nothing more than a impact sub. Similar to Phillips at Blackpool. I think what must be a lack of ability or effort on the training pitch and an inability to outshine a 36 year old when given a chance is a real poor mark on our other forwards.
Bar Cardiffs sub appearance Ngog has offered no more than last season. A lot of huff and puff but no clear indication he is able or ready to shift SKD. Both Afobe and Sordell have played with SKD yet never looked better than him.
SKD your time is up and hopefully DF will bring someone in in Jan to allow you to be phased out naturally without bwfc fans making unnecessary comments about you because you are a modern day bwfc legend!