Hey bob, don't do the English thing by knocking one of our best. Remember in his first year as a test player he scored a ton against the great Warne & Mcgrath.
Ah yes, the Warne and mcgrath axis who by that time were not allowed into some grounds as the committees didn't want zimmer frames foulimng upo the pitch
Great to the end that pair! Unlike Tendulkar. Bet you can't wait for A Cookie low score!
Don’t get me wrong, AC is a quality act and I believe one of the best up and coming batsman – hes progressing into a pure batsman, but its still work in progress. Just how good is he against quality bowlers, and I stress the word QUALITY. Quality pace attack in south Africa and quality spin as in Pakistan.
In the last 6 years:
11 games vs Pakistan -his average is 36
11 games vs south Africa – average of 40
New Zealand (abit harsh as only based on one year) – average of 30
Lets be honest here, the aussies haven’t had the best of bowling attacks of late, after the retirements of their greats. Indias bowling quality is a mixture of mash and peas (an please don’t tell me they have a good spin attack- one of the biggest myths around at the moment!!!). Lanka and windies don’t fair much better either. But granted AC can only play whats infront of him and has shone magnificently. Let hope it continues
Afridi, with 5 tests coming against N Z in the next few months, I think Cook will up that average!
yeah I agree with you. I see him upping his avearge vs NZ and the aussies in the summer.
Against NZ? Yippee do. I think he's a very decent player and want him to do well but he's nowhere near the fisnihed article yet.
By the way, his name is Cook and not Cookie
I said myself in a couple of articles beneath that he's still got a bit of a way way to be in the company of Barrington, Compton and probably even the great Wally Hammond.
Even further still to join IMO the two greatest openers of all time in Hobbs and Hutton.
Cook's game has come on leaps and bounds in recent years and it's been great to watch him develop into a world class batsman. However, he still has a lot of cricket to play yet and a fair bit of good batting it will take before he dined at the top table.
For now, he's certainly going the right way about it. As is Pietersen if he keeps his head down.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Agree with the OP, long way to go for Cook. He also needs to move his feet more, the technique he has should only take you so far. The standard of pace bowling has gone downhill since the 90s, no doubt about it.
Love his attitude though, he always wants runs and is prepared to graft both home and away and now when Captaining the side.
Also, when people talk about stats, they should be talking quality, not quantity. You can go on about number of runs, number of centuries, age of player etc., but look how many people have more runs and centuries than Bradman, but who has anyhere near his average?
there is only 2 quality bowling attacks in tests. one from pak and the 2nd one from SA. and suprisingly he has failed against both.
cook against pak in 2010 averaged 23 in england and in UAE he averaged 26 again.
Teams like india, SL, WI and NZ are all on the same level. so agree with kash there.
as a captain or batsman he would be the first one to get into the indian team at current rate, and I hope India had a batsman/captain as gd as him who can lead from the front.
But its a long way off.
someone like dravid is not ready to be compared to gavaskar, so its speaks volumes on how gd those gen players were.
Agree with the OP, long way to go for Cook. He also needs to move his feet more, the technique he has should only take you so far. The standard of pace bowling has gone downhill since the 90s, no doubt about it.
...............
Indeed. As well as he's batting at the moment still needs to a fair bit before he can begin to convince me that he ranks amongst England's greatest batsmen. Although I'm enjoying watching how certain aspects of his game are developing. I like the way he's improved his technique against spin and looks to be more aggressive now.
You say the standard of pace bowling has declined since the 90s but the standard of bowling be it pace or spin has been pretty average for a few years now, around the world.
The quality of bowling in recent times has been at it's weakest since probably the late 60s. Certainly helps Cook and other batsmen but you can only play against what's in front of you.
Agreed TGM,
With Murali and Warne retired and now Swann, Harbhajan over 30 and Ajmal 35 (why this guy was picked so late in his career defies logic), spin bowling also seems to be going through a dry spell.
Cook is a player that looks to improve I agree and doesn't rest on his laurels. Whilst he could stay the player he is and be remembered for being a good player, he is constantly looking to develop his game. An admirable quality.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I said myself in a couple of articles beneath that he's still got a bit of a way way to be in the company of Barrington, Compton and probably even the great Wally Hammond.
Even further still to join IMO the two greatest openers of all time in Hobbs and Hutton.
Cook's game has come on leaps and bounds in recent years and it's been great to watch him develop into a world class batsman. However, he still has a lot of cricket to play yet and a fair bit of good batting it will take before he dined at the top table.
For now, he's certainly going the right way about it. As is Pietersen if he keeps his head down.
..................
I think that's the best summing up I've read of exactly where Cook is. He's a wonderful player and will continue to break records but he has a lot of cricket ahead of him yet to be in the company of those mentioned above. It's easy to being seen as a great player in an era lacking great players.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
And Steyn. Amla like Cook has a long time ahead of him yet to be mentioned with the above. Steyn likewise but he would compliment the Westindies team of the 70's and 80's and that says it all. SRT along with Dravid who I think is far more respected in England than SRT, Ponting and Kallis are greats.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I guess it's a different way of looking at it Neon. Please don't get me wrong , SRT will be a player I will always consider myself lucky to have seen bat, and I think a better player than Dravid. However reason I say what i o is Dravid's attitude. He just stood there facing whatever was thrown at him , never made a fuss, never made an excuse, and was still standing there at the end of the day, that's an attitude to be respected. And he was a horribly nice guy to go with it.
Yep, give it at least another few years of consistently good batting from Cook before we can begin to even think about mentioning him amongst the aforementioned greats. He's playing extremely well out in India but some are forgetting he had a pretty average time of it in the past 12 months.
To be considered amongst whom I'd consider the best openers of all time he'll need to up his game still yet, quite a bit.
Looking at the quality of bowling around world cricket since McGrath and Warne left the scene then an average tipping 50 would be more than expected for a top class batsman. So he's going well but I still expect more.
If Hobbs or Hutton were playing today against the standard of attacks around I personally reckon the pair of them would be averaging 60+ no problems.
Matthew Hayden played 103 test matches, scored 8600rruns, & got 30 test centuries. Very very good........... Never faced Warne or Mcgrath.
Quite a good player young Alistair. However, as a batsman he is still no where near fit to strap up Jack Hobbs' or Wally hammond's pads and in terms of captaincy he is George formby to Douglas Jardine's Lucianno pavarotti.
===========================
Not wanting to be negative but what a load of cobblers! Cook has proven himself to be a top notch opening bat. He may not have achieved legend status yet but to suggest he is that far away from Hobbs/Hammond is ludicrous.
Captaincy: compare this team with the shower who played Pakistan/Sri Lanka earlier this year and notice the marked difference. Again, not entirely the captain's responsibility but he must have some influence.
Before the tour, it was all "but wait until he plays in India". What ever he does, there will always be someone who will be saying "it doesn't count".
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posted on 6/12/12
Hey bob, don't do the English thing by knocking one of our best. Remember in his first year as a test player he scored a ton against the great Warne & Mcgrath.
posted on 6/12/12
Ah yes, the Warne and mcgrath axis who by that time were not allowed into some grounds as the committees didn't want zimmer frames foulimng upo the pitch
posted on 6/12/12
Great to the end that pair! Unlike Tendulkar. Bet you can't wait for A Cookie low score!
posted on 6/12/12
Don’t get me wrong, AC is a quality act and I believe one of the best up and coming batsman – hes progressing into a pure batsman, but its still work in progress. Just how good is he against quality bowlers, and I stress the word QUALITY. Quality pace attack in south Africa and quality spin as in Pakistan.
In the last 6 years:
11 games vs Pakistan -his average is 36
11 games vs south Africa – average of 40
New Zealand (abit harsh as only based on one year) – average of 30
Lets be honest here, the aussies haven’t had the best of bowling attacks of late, after the retirements of their greats. Indias bowling quality is a mixture of mash and peas (an please don’t tell me they have a good spin attack- one of the biggest myths around at the moment!!!). Lanka and windies don’t fair much better either. But granted AC can only play whats infront of him and has shone magnificently. Let hope it continues
posted on 6/12/12
Afridi, with 5 tests coming against N Z in the next few months, I think Cook will up that average!
posted on 6/12/12
yeah I agree with you. I see him upping his avearge vs NZ and the aussies in the summer.
posted on 6/12/12
Against NZ? Yippee do. I think he's a very decent player and want him to do well but he's nowhere near the fisnihed article yet.
By the way, his name is Cook and not Cookie
posted on 6/12/12
I said myself in a couple of articles beneath that he's still got a bit of a way way to be in the company of Barrington, Compton and probably even the great Wally Hammond.
Even further still to join IMO the two greatest openers of all time in Hobbs and Hutton.
Cook's game has come on leaps and bounds in recent years and it's been great to watch him develop into a world class batsman. However, he still has a lot of cricket to play yet and a fair bit of good batting it will take before he dined at the top table.
For now, he's certainly going the right way about it. As is Pietersen if he keeps his head down.
posted on 6/12/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 6/12/12
Agree with the OP, long way to go for Cook. He also needs to move his feet more, the technique he has should only take you so far. The standard of pace bowling has gone downhill since the 90s, no doubt about it.
Love his attitude though, he always wants runs and is prepared to graft both home and away and now when Captaining the side.
Also, when people talk about stats, they should be talking quality, not quantity. You can go on about number of runs, number of centuries, age of player etc., but look how many people have more runs and centuries than Bradman, but who has anyhere near his average?
posted on 6/12/12
there is only 2 quality bowling attacks in tests. one from pak and the 2nd one from SA. and suprisingly he has failed against both.
cook against pak in 2010 averaged 23 in england and in UAE he averaged 26 again.
Teams like india, SL, WI and NZ are all on the same level. so agree with kash there.
posted on 6/12/12
i mean afridi*****
posted on 6/12/12
as a captain or batsman he would be the first one to get into the indian team at current rate, and I hope India had a batsman/captain as gd as him who can lead from the front.
But its a long way off.
someone like dravid is not ready to be compared to gavaskar, so its speaks volumes on how gd those gen players were.
posted on 6/12/12
Agree with the OP, long way to go for Cook. He also needs to move his feet more, the technique he has should only take you so far. The standard of pace bowling has gone downhill since the 90s, no doubt about it.
...............
Indeed. As well as he's batting at the moment still needs to a fair bit before he can begin to convince me that he ranks amongst England's greatest batsmen. Although I'm enjoying watching how certain aspects of his game are developing. I like the way he's improved his technique against spin and looks to be more aggressive now.
You say the standard of pace bowling has declined since the 90s but the standard of bowling be it pace or spin has been pretty average for a few years now, around the world.
The quality of bowling in recent times has been at it's weakest since probably the late 60s. Certainly helps Cook and other batsmen but you can only play against what's in front of you.
posted on 6/12/12
Agreed TGM,
With Murali and Warne retired and now Swann, Harbhajan over 30 and Ajmal 35 (why this guy was picked so late in his career defies logic), spin bowling also seems to be going through a dry spell.
Cook is a player that looks to improve I agree and doesn't rest on his laurels. Whilst he could stay the player he is and be remembered for being a good player, he is constantly looking to develop his game. An admirable quality.
posted on 6/12/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 6/12/12
I said myself in a couple of articles beneath that he's still got a bit of a way way to be in the company of Barrington, Compton and probably even the great Wally Hammond.
Even further still to join IMO the two greatest openers of all time in Hobbs and Hutton.
Cook's game has come on leaps and bounds in recent years and it's been great to watch him develop into a world class batsman. However, he still has a lot of cricket to play yet and a fair bit of good batting it will take before he dined at the top table.
For now, he's certainly going the right way about it. As is Pietersen if he keeps his head down.
..................
I think that's the best summing up I've read of exactly where Cook is. He's a wonderful player and will continue to break records but he has a lot of cricket ahead of him yet to be in the company of those mentioned above. It's easy to being seen as a great player in an era lacking great players.
posted on 6/12/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 6/12/12
And Steyn. Amla like Cook has a long time ahead of him yet to be mentioned with the above. Steyn likewise but he would compliment the Westindies team of the 70's and 80's and that says it all. SRT along with Dravid who I think is far more respected in England than SRT, Ponting and Kallis are greats.
posted on 6/12/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 6/12/12
I guess it's a different way of looking at it Neon. Please don't get me wrong , SRT will be a player I will always consider myself lucky to have seen bat, and I think a better player than Dravid. However reason I say what i o is Dravid's attitude. He just stood there facing whatever was thrown at him , never made a fuss, never made an excuse, and was still standing there at the end of the day, that's an attitude to be respected. And he was a horribly nice guy to go with it.
posted on 6/12/12
Yep, give it at least another few years of consistently good batting from Cook before we can begin to even think about mentioning him amongst the aforementioned greats. He's playing extremely well out in India but some are forgetting he had a pretty average time of it in the past 12 months.
To be considered amongst whom I'd consider the best openers of all time he'll need to up his game still yet, quite a bit.
Looking at the quality of bowling around world cricket since McGrath and Warne left the scene then an average tipping 50 would be more than expected for a top class batsman. So he's going well but I still expect more.
If Hobbs or Hutton were playing today against the standard of attacks around I personally reckon the pair of them would be averaging 60+ no problems.
posted on 7/12/12
Matthew Hayden played 103 test matches, scored 8600rruns, & got 30 test centuries. Very very good........... Never faced Warne or Mcgrath.
posted on 7/12/12
Quite a good player young Alistair. However, as a batsman he is still no where near fit to strap up Jack Hobbs' or Wally hammond's pads and in terms of captaincy he is George formby to Douglas Jardine's Lucianno pavarotti.
===========================
Not wanting to be negative but what a load of cobblers! Cook has proven himself to be a top notch opening bat. He may not have achieved legend status yet but to suggest he is that far away from Hobbs/Hammond is ludicrous.
Captaincy: compare this team with the shower who played Pakistan/Sri Lanka earlier this year and notice the marked difference. Again, not entirely the captain's responsibility but he must have some influence.
posted on 7/12/12
Before the tour, it was all "but wait until he plays in India". What ever he does, there will always be someone who will be saying "it doesn't count".
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