Jinky, outwith Celtic which teams have seen a decline in attendances?

Ivan

Killie, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Motherwell, St Johnston

I see what you mean jinky but would say Lawwell was being pretty honest from his perspective. There was no pretence to deny that outwith UEFA money Celtic lose domestically in a financial sense without Rangers in the same leauge.
What I picked up as the gist of his responce( lets keep in mind we are talking about a responce to a question asked , not a stand alone statement he made) was yes the Celtic v Rangers fixture has many great aspects obviously forefront the rivalry and historical context of being them being the best sides in Scotland.
Where I think he was genuine also was that many when it suits disregard the negatives that surround this fixture. So I can fully understand his point that Celtic have the desire to promote what is good about Celtic as an individual club and are enjoying such at present outwith being one of a duo under the OF tag.
The porposed league setup is a feck up but without a better option actually think its better than what we currently have for Scottish fitba in general even if it does hurt us financially.

Ivan is your mob still turning up to watch your relegation battle?

Ivan

like it or not old firm keep the gate revenues up for these teams and no Rangers has had a effect on gate revenue

It's a bit funny the whole division 3 is having a half season promotion party.

should have read dolphin

I'll answer that question for you, using the ESPN attendance statistics

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/sco.1/scottish-premier-league?cc=5739

Team------Last Season Average----This Season Average

Celtic---------------50,904---------------------46551
Hearts--------------13,381---------------------13,574
Hibs-----------------9,909----------------------10,898
Aberdeen-----------9,297----------------------10,796
DUFC---------------7,482-----------------------7,743
Motherwell----------5,946-----------------------5,001
Kilmarnock---------5,537-----------------------4,989
St Mirren-----------4,493-----------------------4,625
St Johnstone-------4,170----------------------3,938
ICT-------------------4,023----------------------3,891

So from that Celtic, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone and ICT have seen reductions in attendances. Everyone else is improved. You can assume that league performance is the reason for Aberdeen and Hibs having better attendances and terrible small supports being the reason for St Johnstone and ICT having slightly reduced as they don't have the fan base to call on to fill the grounds (it's a shame for ICT considering the season they're having).

Your right Ivan the attendences are fine so I thiink we can put that portion of the armageddon arguement to bed

The only team that I would feel that would be really hurting from the drop in attendances is Killie who were in a precarious position anyway. Maybe Motherwell but I'm not sure what they're financial position is and how well they can absorb the drop in attendances.

ivan

when did you get this the start of the season as no flucking chance thsts is the figures now

i will bet any money come the end of the season it will show revenue figures are down

Ivan you cant hide the fact that Celtic and Rangers kept these gates figures healthy for some clubs and that is Fact like it or not

Ivan don't answer my wum with facts.

Jinky, I linked where I got these figures from. It's data taken from ESPN as of 3rd January 2013. You can also get the previous season figures from.

If you've got an issue with the figures take it up with ESPN.

lauders We're just biding our time before our GMS inspired surge up the table.

Aye I hate when that happens to me anaw lauders

Of all the clubs that have been in the SPL over the last 5 years or so I actually thought Killie would be the first to belly up. Fair play to them for managing their debt while still being a decent side.
Think on them grounds Killie will likely be high on the list of the most concerened how things are and will pan out. your own club was looking vulnerable also recently but again your board have to be praised for biting the bullit and adressing it agressively , from what I read the bank pressure played its part DU seem to have a realistic view of what must be done by any Scottish side looking to move forward into what has to be a much more pragmatic future by all, from fans to owners.

Great comment Ivan. Shows how much dross is being fed into the argument that SPL cannot survive without TRFC.

I believe the average attendance at Celtic is down due to two factors;

a) We will win the league by April at the latest therefore little interest,

b) many fans are spending their hard earned going to European games and thereby not attending as many SPL games.

This situation will be exacerbated when we qualify for the last eight, then the last four of the CL. Not many fans will be able to afford 100 quid for a game at Parkhead against Real then cough up 25 quid for a game against Ross County ( no slight intended) on the Saturday.

Maybe some fans will save the 125 quid next season and buy a season ticket for a third tier side thereby ensuring 34 games ( and potentially play offs) for their money

like i said Ivan once we win the league by a canter will see the figures at the end of the year

The Dundee United situation was greatly exaggerated in the media.

We have been working towards reducing our debt for a number of years, basically when Stephen Thompson took over the chairmanship from his late father. He has been far more pragmatic than Eddie and basically was sick of his family's money being ploughed into the team hand over fist. Yes the bank obviously put a bit of pressure on but we were looking to reduce anyway.

At it's worst United's debt was around 6-6.5million. That has been greatly reduced down to somewhere in the region of 3-3.5million. Year on year we reduce our wage bill and find ways to cut costs. Certainly in the last 3 years we've seen our highest earners leave each season and replaced with cheaper, younger players.

Importantly the fans support this and everyone at the club understands the importance of wiping out the debt, and this was even before the Rangers situation developed.

Jinky,

Whenever you comment on this it's almost like you're trying to convince yourself that everything is going to go belly up despite the evidence being presented to you.

You seem to be one of those fans who only live for the rivalry with Rangers. Fair enough, that's your perogative. But you need to open your eyes and see what else is out there.

Scottish football isn't just the Old Firm. You might take more enjoyment from the game if you take those blinkers off.

Rickboy

this is exacly what we dont want as for alk the money we have made this season will count for fkuck all

yes i think we will canter the league but the main factor why our revenue is down is becsuse no Rangers do you think if Rangers were in the SPL keeping up with us for the league fans would stay away ?

We have no competition while Rangers are out of the league and thats not me been putting down other teams but pointing out facts just look how bad we have played in the SPL so far this season and how far are we ahead

Lots of 606 posters wear Blinkers but Jinky,no way

Rickshaw ? were you one of the celtic fans who came out the cupboard with your green and grey hoops in 1998.

puyol when it comes to Scottish football all Jinky sees is the Old Firm. Which is actually a crying shame because there is so much more out there.

jinky without a doubt there a fewer bums on seats at Paradise but the figures wont change this season as they are more or actually not less the season ticket count.
Next season is yet to be seen but lets cross that bridge when we come to it
Hope to feck its still there and Green hasnt burned that wan anaw

Jinky the season books would have to drop to less than 10,000 to even get close to wiping out the money made this season mate