GSE OUT

OSBOURNE OUT

BIEBER OUT

Clough IN for now

Dru - I am 100% in favour of the principle of sustainability and, for that reason, have backed GSE so far.
West Brom, Stoke and Swansea have succeeded, so it can be done.
The key is wages being restricted to under 70% of turnover.
Our potential problem is that our revenue streams are drying up as fewer people come to games, so its going to get harder to spend less than 70% on wages, not easier.
This is the immediate issue that GSE need to address and, arguably, the only way they are going to reignite interest amonst fans is by buying 2 or 3 quality players and mounting a serious push for promotion.

You've hit the nail firmly on the head there Peeder. GSE can't carry on down this road they've chosen. The margins have become too tight and will only get tighter as more disenchanted supporters choose not to attend Pride Park.
As much as Clough's management style frustrates me, I could put up with it if there was a modicum of real interest expressed from GSE and not just sound-bites and platitudes when season ticket renewal time arrives. I'm sick of hearing them say "let's get to summer to see what exciting things we at DCFC have planned". We get to Summer and guess what? Chaos! But that doesn't matter, we have pocketed your season ticket money so you'll just have to live with it. I am told Sam Rush told listeners on the moan-in to expect exciting things in the Summer. That's funny, I heard that last year, the year before that and in fact the one before that one as well. Yet here we are, a club gripped with apathy. That isn't Clough's fault. It's the fault of GSE, promising great things and delivering diddley squat!
I will be watching to see if Mr Rush delivers these 2 or 3 quality players but given their history in such matters, I won't be holding my breath in anticipation.

It's difficult to wholly address at the moment as the gates, and therefore turnover, are dropping nationally.

There's a long-standing recession which is having a two-pronged effect on the club: people are less able to afford to attend and also less inclined to pay to watch a side struggle.

It'd be great if everyone just pitched up regardless but in essence it's about being entertained: escapism, becoming part of a collective rather than an individual with bills to pay and responsibilities. Instead, it's become something of a responsibility in itself, and with people's lives becoming less independent and choices becoming limited in 'real life' then they're maybe more susceptible to exercising their choice where football is concerned.

I believe a different manager could do better with these players, and that Your Nige could do better with better players too, but how can it be financed? GSE and their backers aren't doing any more than treading water, so maybe a calculated gamble might pay dividends.

Should we perform well, get the luck and win promotion, would they let the extra revenue ride into the squad in the hope of staying up? Doubtful. They came in looking for a return and, after what would be six years of investing by then, I don't doubt they'd look to get out ASAP.

Unfortunately 666 that's my fear if we even fluked promotion so either way we are nick knacked.

Peeder,

We all want sustainability and Premier teams have proved its possible but even those you mention paid their dues/insurance to gamble retaining prem status.

I can not see GSE making that gamble myself.

They won't Dru. GSE are relying on two things. An upturn in the economy and the blind faith of DCFC supporters. There are still a large majority who believe GSE will deliver. That number is dwindling season upon season. If nothing changes and I've no reason to believe anything will, there will come a point where attendances will be at such a low level the club's existence will be at stake. GSE's backers will not keep pumping in money to fill the deficit hole as it gets bigger and bigger. Something will have to give.

Something I have stated for some time Republic since the old 606 days that at some point the backers will lose faith of getting their money back then what.

Personally this rubbish about the economy we have been in tougher times and the fans still came.

There is no solution to this situation in my mind that benefits the club and its fans.

If GSE are waiting for the economy to pick up they will be waiting a long, long time. Apart from the fact that there are more billionaires, the economy is worse than it was in the thirties. There can be no sign whatsoever of any improvement for a decade or more. Every year is worse. The Chancellor has just added £11Bn to the taxes the next government will have to impose by his giveaway budget to second home buyers. One penny off a pint of beer will save me 10p a night but my liver will need to be replaced on the NHS. He thinks he can buy us off with such largesse to beer drinkers.

Meanwhile there will be less and less supporters as less and less folk can afford to spend on mere entertainment. I don't see GSE getting their money back any time soon.

Ramdini,

Again some who shares the same fears that I do. Facts are GSE DO NOT OWN DERBY COUNTY AN INVESTMENT GROUP DO!!!

So what happens when that said group lose patience.

I will tell you what we go bust as they will be our main creditor and on that basis can place us into administration.

Scary but true.

First of all, I think the recession/economy is a factor affecting attendances. I kind of agree with 666's first couple of paragraphs and fans are having to make choices. It isn't just about tickets, additional costs like travel also come into play. Fans are now being more selective about matches. Not everyone can make midweek games, or matches switched to late evening kick-offs, making it expensive to buy a season ticket when you probably miss half the games.

Recessions were challenging in the past, but when second tier clubs are asking the best part of £30 for a ticket, it is an expensive hobby.

As for GSE, I am no tubthumper for them, but unfortunately wages drive football now and until these are put in some form of check, running a football club is unsustainable unless you do have a benefactor and shortfalls usually have to be covered & losses made.

Secondly, I think GSE would sell up at the first decent offer which would enable them to leave without making a loss. Gadsby made an enquiry a couple of years back but probably offered them lower than they paid.

I also think we are 'unofficially' up for sale as we were namechecked as one of the clubs for sale in a Dispatches programme (Channel 4) a while back about the Far Eastern guy, friend of SAF, who acted as a broker for clubs seeking investment.

I actually believe GSE would be as glad to be shot of us as we would be of them. I'm no fan of theirs, yet they were the only ones to make an offer for us. They came to make a quick profit, but decent buyers weren't queueing up. Why you may ask? A decent club with good support, not a mass of debts (you'd assume). Sometimes I do wonder if the financial situation at Derby is more complicated and if this puts prospective buyers off.

Modern football is now an expensive loss making business unlike any other unless you develop a strategy (Swansea), & is a business which tends to make short-term decisions.

Bob,

But teams in the premier have proven that you can compete without selling your soul and actually have a sustainable business model.

I have always said GSE bought something very different from what they bought and this is our biggest issue.

I agree the first oppo that covers their losses (which is unlikely) they will sell but this is a long shot.

We are stuck as are GSE and little will change until breaking point which is my biggest fear for my beloved club

The key problem is the current PL clubs are pulling up the drawbridge behind them.

The combination of increased PL parachute payments and Financial Fair Play mean that in future there will ba a cadre of 24~26 clubs that have a chance of playing in the PL - albeit in any one season 4~6 of them are having a temporary spell in the championship.

I heard on TV recently that under the new arrangements a club relegated from the PL will get £23m a year for 4 years. A Championship club will get £2.3m. So a relegated club will be able to out-spend a Chamionship club by £20.7m - for 4 years!!

To even that up a 'sugar-daddy' owner would have to pump £82.8m in - just to get a level playing field.

Why would a prospective sugar-daddy do that when the same money could by one of the smaller clubs already in the PL club?

I think next season... or maybe 2014/15 at a push - will be the last time a club gets promoted to the PL that has not been in the PL within the preceding 4 years.

Then there will be a double-whammy on the rest of the Championship clubs... their revenue will fall as some fans decide they are not going to spend £600 a year watching, when the only issue at stake is avoiding relegation to L1.

The Chamionship over the last decade has been arguably much more interesting that the PL because its not been predictable. I

n the PL over the last 15~20 years most football fans will have been able to name the two clubs who will fill positions 1&2, the two clubs who will fill positions 3&4 and the three clubs fighting for positions 5&6 before a ball has been kicked.

The same predictability has not been true in the Championship - but I believe it will be in the future.

I think its all a big yawn.

The last two seasons I've been seriously thinking about not renewing, and then changed my mind. I can't see that continuing this season.

As previous posters have said, the BS spewing from the Pride Park boardroom during the 'renewal window' now has zero credibility.

I'm thinking about how many extra trips to the theatre or cinema I could get for £600, and what would the enjoyment differential be between that and 23 cold & wet 90 minutes spent watching nothing much more than honest effort (in the most part) at Pride Park.

I think in 2013/14 I'm going to put it to the test.

Apathy will be GSE's downfall

I'm thinking about how many extra trips to the theatre or cinema I could get for £600, and what would the enjoyment differential be between that and 23 cold & wet 90 minutes spent watching nothing much more than honest effort (in the most part) at Pride Park.
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I know what you mean Wideboy. Yes, the danger is of the Championship becoming an unofficial PL2. I heard the same on the radio, the differential between a parachute payment of £20m+ and £2m is staggering.

Football is now about high stakes and money, which has distorted the notion of competition.

My only caveat as seen by the debt owed by Bolton to a benefactor, and the mismanagement of Wolves & Blackburn, is that the PL is a league unlike any other and that parachute payments were brought in to insulate clubs from the financial fall-out which often followed relegation where a club might get promoted and then sign players on lucrative contracts and then be liable to honouring these despite a fall in revenues upon relegation. It is still happening as seen with Zigic at Birmingham.

Swansea are probably an exception, West Brom, too, and Wigan have now gone the same way, of sourcing talent at reasonable markets, exploiting the loan system, but a side only needs to make a couple of toxic signings, like we did under both Jewell & Davies, to see £20m lost.