Hmm... interesting views Jenius. You could well be onto something there.
But when you say that we're waiting for Bendtner and Nasri or Cesc to go before we will bid for Mata, is that because we've already signed Gervinho, so being a two in/two out scenario?
That to me change the squad, rather than strengthening it... depth-wise at least.
Benzema being added to the incoming transfers would change that of course. Adding either a CB or a DM to that would be another positive.
Bartley just signed a new contract and Afobe seems to be central during pre-season. What do you think to their chances of being added to the first team squad? A season too early for them maybe?
Lexington
The Mata deal broke down because he is contracted to the club until June 2015, which nullified the reports on Sky Sports News and others, categorically elucidating that he only had one year left on his contract. We only offered between £13.5m - £17.5m and he has just under four years left. And there wasn't going to be much of a chance of us buying a player of that quality for such a cheap price.
Also, his buy-out clause expired prior to when we made the bid, meaning we weren't quick enough to buy him because once his clause expired, it meant that Valencia could price other clubs out of the market for that one player and demand any price they pleaded. There were reports of Valencia putting a £68 million price tag on him
Not sure how much of that is true (the bit where I talked about the £68m price tag), but given that they are the ones setting the benchmark, it wouldn't surprise me, especially given how huge their debt is, they'd want as much money as possible for their best player to leave them.
Jenius99
Not sure where you've gotten the ''Benzema wanting to leave'' stuff from, but my guess is that you are just theorizing. Have you personally spoken to Benzema or Mourinho? Have they told you what they think, up close?
Best thing to do is to look at things logically. Why would Benzema want to leave? He's earning huge money, great lifestyle, playing for one of Europe's top clubs under arguably the most tactically astute manager in Europe and he got a lot of game time last season. Also, why would Mourinho want to sell Benzema? The only other striker they have is Higuain, who was injured for the large proportion of last season, and perhaps you can count Ronaldo as well, but he doesn't just play up front, he can play as a winger (primary position), attacking midfielder or a second striker as well.
Even if Madrid bring in another striker, they would need squad depth and Benzema would certainly be decent enough back-up, that's for sure. Madrid just don't have enough striking options IMO.
What it all comes down to is how much they are earning. If they're earning a lot of money, the chances are that they won't move away, regardless of how much game time, or lack thereof, the player may be getting.
Even if we wanted to get Benzema, he has too much pride and his ego would get the better of him, which, in my eyes, signifies that he wouldn't take the pay cut to come to us, with our egalitarian pay structure.
Samir_Nasri_is_our_Messi
Yes I am theorizing. As all football analysts do. In fact I can tell you that Benzema's agent doesn't know what Mourinho is thinking or vice-versa.
The point is there are numerous players at Madrid. If Benzema is unavailable and Benzema doesn't want to move why in the world do they keep talking about him? Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
Why would Benzema want to leave? First team football and a higher profile. Benzema is not the big name at Madrid. He is not even first choice. And Mourinho does not like him. He made that clear last year. Real Madrid wanted Aguero. But they did want to pay his asking price. They still want to bring in a top striker and that means Benzema will continue to sit on the bench. In a limited career profile is very important to players. They have to maximise their earning and believe it or not Madrid own image rights of their players whereas Arsenal allow the players to retain theirs. Thats why we have attracted top names in the past even on higher wages. Look at how quickly Kaka has disappeared because of limited playing time. Contrast that with C.Ronaldo.
Real Madrid's wages are only excessive for their top 2 transfers. Kaka and C.Ronaldo. (Unlike City) We may be egalitarian. But the top players are on similar wages worldwide. Thats why we have a £110m+ wage bill.
Now you may noticed that Barcelona have asked Cesc to take a pay cut! I would love us to make a marquee signing just to quieten down the discord if we lose the players we are going to. Frankly Arsene has to make a statement or the stadium will be half empty by Feb. The booing should have told the directors something. All our sponsorships are to be renegotiated this season. We have to remain a CL club and be challenging for trophies till the end of the season. Marketing managers are not stupid.
"Also, his buy-out clause expired prior to when we made the bid, meaning we weren't quick enough to buy him because once his clause expired, it meant that Valencia could price other clubs out of the market for that one player and demand any price they pleaded. "
And what if we were offering less than the buy-out clause to begin with? Just because a player has a buy-out clause does not mean that club is unwilling to sell at our offer price.
Why would Valencia sell? Type 'Spain credit crisis' into google and you will get your answer. Why do you think Barca are finding it so hard to raise the funds for Cesc.
Jenius99
Re Benzema:
Not sure where you're getting all this information from, frankly.
Where has Benzema alluded to leaving? Direct quotes? When has Mourinho stated or even suggested that he wants Benzema to leave? Got any links to back any of that up?
Benzema saved Real Madrid on so many occasions last year and Mourinho is an intelligent man, so he won't let Benzema go because he is at minimum an impact sub. I can't see Mourinho selling Benzema. Not this season, at least. He's said as much, too.
Like I said, Madrid have only got two natural strikers - Benzema being one of them. They need squad depth, so it'd be illogical to dispose of him. Why can't they keep Benzema but still bring in another striker? In my opinion, I think that If Benzema realises that other clubs won't pay his extravagant wages, then he will stay in Madrid. It's not about the football time he's getting, the key purpose for him is to ensure that he's accruing as much money as possible.
I do also agree that Madrid owning his image rights played a part in his disappearance, but he has been injured and when he came back, it was an awkward time to start regaining that great form he showed because it was so late on in the season and there was virtually nothing to play for anymore. If he doesn't get injured this season, we'll see how high his reputation gets then.
Re Mata:
Just because a player has a buy-out clause does not mean that club is unwilling to sell at our offer price? Well, in some cases, yes, but that's exactly what happened with us!
I've already said that Valencia would sell because they are in tonnes of debt, but they would want to sell to the highest bidder possible. City, Real Madrid, Inter Milan have a reported interest in the player and these clubs will easily embezzle our bid, given the amount of money they all have to spend. Mata in particular is one of the hottest prospects around and Valencia know they can get more money from his departure when the bigger clubs come calling.
With respect if anyone wanted Mata they would have offered the release clause offer before it expired. Arsene is interested but he is not the hot property in any system.
Benzema is available. Marca, AS have all carried reports recently which Mourinho and Benzema have denied. Both those papers have great contacts in Madrid. But that does not mean Arsene will open the cheque back. So its a moot point.
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posted on 4/8/11
Hmm... interesting views Jenius. You could well be onto something there.
But when you say that we're waiting for Bendtner and Nasri or Cesc to go before we will bid for Mata, is that because we've already signed Gervinho, so being a two in/two out scenario?
That to me change the squad, rather than strengthening it... depth-wise at least.
Benzema being added to the incoming transfers would change that of course. Adding either a CB or a DM to that would be another positive.
Bartley just signed a new contract and Afobe seems to be central during pre-season. What do you think to their chances of being added to the first team squad? A season too early for them maybe?
posted on 4/8/11
Lexington
The Mata deal broke down because he is contracted to the club until June 2015, which nullified the reports on Sky Sports News and others, categorically elucidating that he only had one year left on his contract. We only offered between £13.5m - £17.5m and he has just under four years left. And there wasn't going to be much of a chance of us buying a player of that quality for such a cheap price.
Also, his buy-out clause expired prior to when we made the bid, meaning we weren't quick enough to buy him because once his clause expired, it meant that Valencia could price other clubs out of the market for that one player and demand any price they pleaded. There were reports of Valencia putting a £68 million price tag on him
Not sure how much of that is true (the bit where I talked about the £68m price tag), but given that they are the ones setting the benchmark, it wouldn't surprise me, especially given how huge their debt is, they'd want as much money as possible for their best player to leave them.
Jenius99
Not sure where you've gotten the ''Benzema wanting to leave'' stuff from, but my guess is that you are just theorizing. Have you personally spoken to Benzema or Mourinho? Have they told you what they think, up close?
Best thing to do is to look at things logically. Why would Benzema want to leave? He's earning huge money, great lifestyle, playing for one of Europe's top clubs under arguably the most tactically astute manager in Europe and he got a lot of game time last season. Also, why would Mourinho want to sell Benzema? The only other striker they have is Higuain, who was injured for the large proportion of last season, and perhaps you can count Ronaldo as well, but he doesn't just play up front, he can play as a winger (primary position), attacking midfielder or a second striker as well.
Even if Madrid bring in another striker, they would need squad depth and Benzema would certainly be decent enough back-up, that's for sure. Madrid just don't have enough striking options IMO.
What it all comes down to is how much they are earning. If they're earning a lot of money, the chances are that they won't move away, regardless of how much game time, or lack thereof, the player may be getting.
Even if we wanted to get Benzema, he has too much pride and his ego would get the better of him, which, in my eyes, signifies that he wouldn't take the pay cut to come to us, with our egalitarian pay structure.
posted on 4/8/11
Samir_Nasri_is_our_Messi
Yes I am theorizing. As all football analysts do. In fact I can tell you that Benzema's agent doesn't know what Mourinho is thinking or vice-versa.
The point is there are numerous players at Madrid. If Benzema is unavailable and Benzema doesn't want to move why in the world do they keep talking about him? Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
Why would Benzema want to leave? First team football and a higher profile. Benzema is not the big name at Madrid. He is not even first choice. And Mourinho does not like him. He made that clear last year. Real Madrid wanted Aguero. But they did want to pay his asking price. They still want to bring in a top striker and that means Benzema will continue to sit on the bench. In a limited career profile is very important to players. They have to maximise their earning and believe it or not Madrid own image rights of their players whereas Arsenal allow the players to retain theirs. Thats why we have attracted top names in the past even on higher wages. Look at how quickly Kaka has disappeared because of limited playing time. Contrast that with C.Ronaldo.
Real Madrid's wages are only excessive for their top 2 transfers. Kaka and C.Ronaldo. (Unlike City) We may be egalitarian. But the top players are on similar wages worldwide. Thats why we have a £110m+ wage bill.
Now you may noticed that Barcelona have asked Cesc to take a pay cut! I would love us to make a marquee signing just to quieten down the discord if we lose the players we are going to. Frankly Arsene has to make a statement or the stadium will be half empty by Feb. The booing should have told the directors something. All our sponsorships are to be renegotiated this season. We have to remain a CL club and be challenging for trophies till the end of the season. Marketing managers are not stupid.
posted on 4/8/11
"Also, his buy-out clause expired prior to when we made the bid, meaning we weren't quick enough to buy him because once his clause expired, it meant that Valencia could price other clubs out of the market for that one player and demand any price they pleaded. "
And what if we were offering less than the buy-out clause to begin with? Just because a player has a buy-out clause does not mean that club is unwilling to sell at our offer price.
Why would Valencia sell? Type 'Spain credit crisis' into google and you will get your answer. Why do you think Barca are finding it so hard to raise the funds for Cesc.
posted on 4/8/11
Jenius99
Re Benzema:
Not sure where you're getting all this information from, frankly.
Where has Benzema alluded to leaving? Direct quotes? When has Mourinho stated or even suggested that he wants Benzema to leave? Got any links to back any of that up?
Benzema saved Real Madrid on so many occasions last year and Mourinho is an intelligent man, so he won't let Benzema go because he is at minimum an impact sub. I can't see Mourinho selling Benzema. Not this season, at least. He's said as much, too.
Like I said, Madrid have only got two natural strikers - Benzema being one of them. They need squad depth, so it'd be illogical to dispose of him. Why can't they keep Benzema but still bring in another striker? In my opinion, I think that If Benzema realises that other clubs won't pay his extravagant wages, then he will stay in Madrid. It's not about the football time he's getting, the key purpose for him is to ensure that he's accruing as much money as possible.
I do also agree that Madrid owning his image rights played a part in his disappearance, but he has been injured and when he came back, it was an awkward time to start regaining that great form he showed because it was so late on in the season and there was virtually nothing to play for anymore. If he doesn't get injured this season, we'll see how high his reputation gets then.
Re Mata:
Just because a player has a buy-out clause does not mean that club is unwilling to sell at our offer price? Well, in some cases, yes, but that's exactly what happened with us!
I've already said that Valencia would sell because they are in tonnes of debt, but they would want to sell to the highest bidder possible. City, Real Madrid, Inter Milan have a reported interest in the player and these clubs will easily embezzle our bid, given the amount of money they all have to spend. Mata in particular is one of the hottest prospects around and Valencia know they can get more money from his departure when the bigger clubs come calling.
posted on 6/8/11
With respect if anyone wanted Mata they would have offered the release clause offer before it expired. Arsene is interested but he is not the hot property in any system.
Benzema is available. Marca, AS have all carried reports recently which Mourinho and Benzema have denied. Both those papers have great contacts in Madrid. But that does not mean Arsene will open the cheque back. So its a moot point.
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