I would put Terry in the second category. Mourinho's 04/05 team was a machine and Terry is a huge part of that success and defensive solidity.

As for your United point, I agree about Rio. Vidic and Stam get a great deal of praise for being 'hard men' and diving into challenges and 6 yard boxes full of boots, but Rio's game was about avoiding those situations. Reading of the game the best we've have, and he can play a bit too.

When he retires, I think we will look back on him as one of the greatest ever.

Sorry, I mean I would put Terry in the first category.

I think of the second category Serbian, Terry has a fair enough claim to be the best in it, though there were times when Terry would make a mistake or be caught out, and his safety net of Carvalho/Ferdinand would bail him out, and JT would be praised for his forceful defensive play, while the actual cleaning up was done in the background by someone else. Terry was great, no doubt, but the difference between Terry, and the similar styled defenders in the first category, say Adams or Campbell, is that they didn't need the safety net in their pomp, they were just so rarely caught out and always made the right move. They defend just as stoutly but have a chess-player mentality about doing it.

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Jeez there is a humour shortfall on here today!

Must be all the bad jokes, eh Hector?

Carvalho > Vidic > Stam > Terry > Ferdinand

Bad jokes are still jokes.

Lighten up man.

You won't ever see a better CB to grace the league than Carvalho, guy had everything, had the power and strength of your vidics and terrys but at the same time had the flair and attacking ability of yours Hyypia and Adams. Guy was top class and you're likely just being bitter because of that " THAT GOAL "

Disagree entirely Oscar. But good for you for trying to justify your argument without pettiness. Oh wait...

Carvalho was great, but not one of the best. Neither was Terry and that you'd rate Stam and Vida better than Rio does nullify your argument pretty much completely.

They weren't in Rio, Vida or Stam's class. Neither of them were. Extreme bias.

Best CB in europe at the moment...

Vincent Kompany.

Vidic is the epitome of assassin defender, you don't mess or face the consequences, Rio on his day was silky smooth, Carvalho was no nonsense, go about the business with no hoohah, Terry is a lion that could only do well for Chelsea because that is where his heart lies.

id put carvalho up there in the top 5 centre halfs in the PL era, dont forget chelsea under mourinho probably had the best defence ever in the PL and a lot of that was down to carvalho alongside terry and makalele as the shield in front of them

my top 5 (in no particular order)

rio
carvalho
stam
vidic
campbell

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I would pick staam up an beat vidic to death with him then throw staam through one door then walk out the other.

Mex

Makelele in front of any combination of the defenders in the first category would be much better than Carvalho-Terry imo.

He was the special defensive player at that time, just the same as how Ronnie was the special offensive player for us in a front three of him, Rooney and Tevez.

Mancblue translation

"I'd cower in the corner and unclench"

To be fair we have been graced with numerous excellent CBs at united compared to any other club in the prem era. Bruce, pallister, Stam, Vidic, Ferdinand etc. carvalho was good for a few seasons but hasn't done it for a long period like rio and Vidic have. For me

Rio
Vidic
Carvalho
Stam
Terry
In that order

Oh and to say kompany is the best in Europe is utter rubbish. One good season is all he has had. He has plenty to prove

Kompany IS the best in europe.

Fergie builds partnerships, successfully, but Vincent is (unbelievably large)head and shoulders above anyone right now

Rio the best defender, stam would probably kill all the others...................together.

Hector

Seriously what makes you think he is the best in Europe? He was superb last season but hasn't been great this and hasn't been great at all in Europe and for me has proved nothing yet. He needs to do it consistently for me

Mancblue translation

"I'd cower in the corner and unclench"

I fear no man, apart from mr t, chuck Norris an Freddie Kruger.

Kompany's been Koscielny class this season Hector mate. Was the best around last season, but not this one.

I really don't think this City team is quite as special as they'd have to believe. Take out Kompany, they've a mediocre defence. Take out Toure, they're hopeless in midfield. Silva's flattered to decieve and Mata is twice the player, Tevez is a crybaby about to leave. Aguero is great, but has had second season syndrome in a big way and might be off to Madrid.

I'd honestly say that of any team to have won the PL, City are the weakest.

loz

stam once sawed his own leg off ust to park in a disabled spot, thats how hard he is

Chuck Norris told his leg to separate itself an it did.

Was watching the match yesterday with a mate and after the clash of heads when De Gea was lying prone, the camera panned to Vidic looking completely unfazed and I just heard my mate go,

"If he dies, he dies." in a Russian accent

Absolutely píssed myself.