<tumbleweed>

I like Jenson, I always have. He had a rough time of it to begin with in F1, and it took a few years for him to thrive. He has improved over his career by a huge amount though and he has my respect for going to McLaren right after Lewis beat Alonso and ruined Heikki's career.
In 2009 he nailed it, he did wobble later on in the season but I think as a 30 y/o (?) who very nearly exited F1 I just think the pressure of having a car that could win the title was hard to deal with. I loved his drive at Brazil (my highlight of his career) and it made me happy to see him achieve his lifetime goal. After Hamilton, and it hurts as I was a huge Mansell fan as a kid, I would say he is the second best English driver I have been fortunate enough to see.
As for Seb v Jens that is tough. Vettel has never had a strong team-mate and so is difficult to gauge. I think Button would have won 2010 in the RB but Seb would have won the last two. This is all a bit of finger in the air though and nobody can say for sure.

I respect both drivers but the fact is that Vettel will take all the plaudits while he is winning titles. That is the way the media and the casual fan works.

I have no doubt that if Button had been driving that Red Bull in 2010/11/12 he would have won those WDC's even with Vettel as a team mate.

Agreed, I guess that's why his team principal doesn't want him to have a competitive team mate in equal machinery

This is pretty much why I'm such a strong supporter of Button.

He gets obscene levels of criticism that I think are completely unjustified.

You guys seem to agree that Button would have another 3 titles to his name if he was at Red Bull, and I'm with you on that. But I look at that kind of thinking from a different angle.

If Vettel hadn't been given such a ridiculously quick car in 2011, I would actually say that Button would've won the Championship.

If that turned out that way, Button would then have achieved the rare feat of winning 2 World Championships with 2 different teams. According to some F1 fans, this is a feat that would set Button apart as one of the all time greats of the sport.

F1 is a sport of fine margins, in 2010 Webber would have been world champion and if the FIA had any balls they would have punished redbull for the rule infringements and Alonso would have been champion.

Vettel's had the best package for a while and has been very lucky because at Brazil it was almost game over. The way people rave about him troubles me because the same people do not appreciate a driver who had the courage to face up against one of the best on the grid.

I do not believe he's won of the greatest but he's certainly a much better driver than he's given credit for

I was told on here once that if I "liked" Jenson Button then I don't know the first thing about F1.

Personally though I've always "liked" him, and think he was a very good driver. His poor ptach in the 2nd 1/4 of last season took me by surprise, as I think it did a lot of people. It's not unknown of though for particular cars to not suit particular drivers.

I had some trouble with my tenses there

Over 3 seasons it was 22-15 to Hamilton where they both finished. Not decisive, but a solid indication that Hamilton was a better driver in that car.

comment by JPB(U16152) “I was told on here once that if I "liked" Jenson Button then I don't know the first thing about F1”

But JPB(U16152) has not provided any proof that he actually knows anything about F1

I was actually annoyed that JPB(U16152) article on the F1 greatest drivers was removed because I was about to point out to him his lack of knowledge, his superficial comments, his errors and irrelevant views.

I am a Lewis Hamilton Fan and reading JPB's statement that in 2007 Lewis Hamilton outraced Alonso is laughable.

On his article, that sadly has been removed, he demonstrated his ignorance. He searched for names of drivers that other people thought were great and then dashed over to wikipedia to find out what they did. A cursory glance and a few titbits and he rushed over to produce an article that was rubbish.

His comments on Alain Prost were embarrassingly naïve and failed to recognise the driver for his greatness and he claimed that Vettel was great because he was voted the best young driver.

for fak's sake. can we not get rid of this ?

People are allowed opinions JPB, you may not like them but if we all agreed, the forum would be boring.

I think one thing you have to say that when Button wins - quite often it is in some style - working his way through the field

Indeed, something we cannot say about our current 3 time champion who said and I quote “we hope we do not need to overtake".

People are allowed opinions JPB, you may not like them but if we all agreed, the forum would be boring.
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I agree. This is exactly why a poster who dedicates his contributions to commenting on his opinions of the aptitude of other posters should not be welcome. It's a joke that this guy is allowed to wreck this forum with his pointless and ignorant nonsense. He'd have lasted 5 minutes on the BBC site.

JPB (U16152)

I am genuinely sorry that I made you cry but it is obvious that you know nothing about any sport let alone F1.

I feel sorry for you.

All of your fellow Spurs fans laugh at you. You are reduced to filtering them and creating duplicate articles so that you can post to yourself.

So here is your chance to educate me and explain to the forum how Lewis Hamilton out raced Fernado Alonso in 2007.

Obviously, if I have misquoted you or twisted or distorted what you actually did post then I will gladly correct my view. Are you prepared to do the same?

I think you have got something missing 'upstairs'.

You do realise that we have the Spanish GP weekend starting tomorrow.

http://www.fia.com/news/2013-spanish-grand-prix-preview

2013 SPANISH GRAND PRIX 10 – 12 MAY 2013

Round five of the 2013 FIA Formula One World Championship sees the teams journey to the Circuit de Catalunya for the Spanish Grand Prix. After beginning the year with four long haul races, the European season starts here – with a return to the circuit that hosted two-thirds of this year’s pre-season testing.

The track itself is famed for offering a broad examination of Formula One machinery with its mix of medium and high-speed corners, a low-speed complex and a long straight. As a venue it hasn’t, however, proved to be particularly conducive to overtaking: the corner combinations tending to make following and attacking very difficult – even with DRS.

Barcelona in May is a very different proposition to Barcelona in February. Temperatures are on average some 15°C higher, and this changes the challenge completely. What doesn’t change is the abrasive nature of the asphalt.

Given the evidence of the first four races in 2013, Pirelli have decided to move away from the Hard/Soft allocation favoured in Spain for the past two years, and instead will bring the Hard and Medium compounds. The Hard, however, is not the tyre that saw use in Malaysia and Bahrain. Pirelli have tweaked their offering, making it closer to that used in 2012.

Two DRS zones will be utilised at the Circuit de Catalunya. The first operates between turns nine (Campsa) and 10 (La Caixa). The second on the start-finish straight.They will have individual detection points.

Starting from pole at this circuit has historically been the key to victory: 18 times from the 22 races, the driver starting P1 has won the race.

Race thread will be up tomorrow morning