Don't know what you mean mate. The SH sides usually send second string sides to the NH when on tour precisely for the purpose of testing them before or after a TRI Nations (4 Nations ) While i totally agree with you about beating the best in order to test yourself, that only truly happens to be a true test when we go down there. In point of fact i suggest that it is us who go all out when we go down on the SH to tour and they in turn go all out on home turf. Not when they come here. Thats why i'm saying that while one team is playing a group of tests against one team this year the other teams are playing against different opposition from other SH countries. Thus there is no basis for win loss ratios as we don't play the same teams at the same time. Thats why the Six Nations is so important because its a level playing field where we all get a shot at each other and the best team comes out on top in the end.

That said when you have a NZ side you always go all out regardless. But they still tend toward sending a less than full strength outfit. South Africa in particular send half new boys up this way every time.

But i have to say its a rather valid point you make about beating the best to test how good you are. Certainly can't argue with that. But you hold the 6Ns in far too little regard. And i question how you give it such little importance. It is the ONLY perennial international competition our teams are involved in. And the only recurring event where we all play against each other. Of course the world cup is the pinnacle. But the Six nations is the pinnacle of our regular seasons. And it is when we always have our best 15(22) playing. not a test match environment with experimentation in mind. but a full on win at all costs international game. Far more important than tests. with the possible exception of a NZ test and a tour of the SH

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Super.
Wales mate it further than England in the recent world cup. England and Ireland went out of the competition at the same point. What are you talking about?

I had it about all the word clubs which have been played until now and on average england and france have always done better.

I am with you that the 6N is the pinnacle of the NH teams.
But when have the wales team won against the OZ. The WB have won the last 8 test games against the welsh team.

Looks like being a Wales vs England final in the Jnr Rugby World Championship.

The future of NH rugby looks promising

Well Super its a long standing fact that Wales concentrate more on the 6Ns than anything else. Boggles the mind why. your guess is as good as mine on that. They do nothing in the Heineken cup either. Nothing much in the world cup, international tests usually end in tears and then they turn up like mad men for the 6 nations. mercurial is a word i would use. Indeed thats why i surprised at how professionally they went about their business this year.

As for world cups been played up until now. thats redundant and Aristo will agree we are talking about this crop of players right now, this team, not teams from the 70s 80s 90s or even 00s
The past 2 or 3 years. You can't possible judge a team on what they did 10 years ago or even 5 years ago.

Spoke to soon....NZ on the come back trail...

England, France, Ireland and Wales are relatively similar in talent these days. What I said about SH fans respecting England more is just down to results, Wales for example (imo) have overperformed in the 6N yet underperformed against the big three.
They always send strong squads though, always. Sure they rotate and through that rotation you can see how much respect they have for the opposition but they treat them very seriously. As I think every nation does.
Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_end-of-year_rugby_union_tests

These are full strength squads, and notice that for the NH big guns they pick the best they can. All three have a great record up here and they want to defend it. Every time an England team steps out vrs the big three I promise you it is a win at all costs game. To me, playing in the 6N is like playing in the premiership. Taking on the giants is like the heineken cup. Both are important for different reasons but one is higher quality.
Lastly the 6N isn't fair, the tri-nations are fair.

Is my mentality out of the ordinary? I don't feel it is. Every fixture is something different to look forward to. Firstly I want to see England at HQ playing NZ, then Australia (our true rival), then SA, then France and last Wales/Ireland/Scotland. Everyone else wants to beat England for historical reasons

Yeah Sporty grats England, but it would be typical England to throw it away in the final.

Sunday's final will be epic!

England are huge but have stamina issues Wales don't seem to have

been impressed with the england junior team.
congrats to them, the future of english rugby looks good.

Not at all Aristo i totally get your point of view.

However. It's France that Ireland want to beat. I know you like to think Ireland V England is the big one over here but i assure you its the second biggest. These days that pendulum has swung and in the past 10 or so years we have gotten sick and tired of the French spoiling our party. The ENgland Ireland game has a more relaxed party feel to it. we all get along quite nicely. you should definitely come to Dublin for a game sometime. No agro at all. Healthy rivalry for sure. But the French. You could cut the atmosphere with a knife and i have been in france 5 times to watch Ireland get throttled on all occasions. Bloody hate them!

The French rarely spoil our party ^^

HAHAHA i know. But we have developed a talent for spoiling your mate

Bang out of order that one <3

Anyway. Im surprised the Elephant in the room has been ignored today. That would be that the Lions ot beaten. Not by the Brumbies no no no. By some idiotic selections by the master of BS Warren Gatland.

I only saw some of the first half but the breakdown was a nightmare. 36 absolutely wussed out of one ruck that costs us a penalty as did numerous other players.

The Aussies are cute in this area so we need to be much better. Luckily our other players are better although the Croft, Heaslip, WB backrow only has one breakdown beast (Croft's better than he's given credit for though).

The tight 5 was shocking in the tight and the loose, scrummaging is part of the job but absolutely killing the 6 and 7 on the opposition when they try to jackal is the other and they were hopeless today.

Sporty,
I felt there was a high level of complacency and a very real lack of cohesion and even interest in the game. Wasn't until Gatland emptied the bench that we were superior but it was with ten mins to go and to little to late. Farrell made a very positive impact off the bench as did the rest of the subs. But these guys are the fellas that know they will get a shot at a test jersey. The boys who started the game (most of them) knew they were not going to be getting close to a starting jersey. And they looked, for all the world, disinterested. NOT BLOODY GOOD ENOUGH!

If you get a chance, small as it maybe, you do everything in your power to impress the boss. To get the public watching to sit up and take notice. They were utterly hopeless until the bench was emptied. Honestly there were a few out there who should have received a plane ticket home after the game. Economy class!

So the News im reading is North is likely out of the first test.
Bowe is almost certainly ruled our of the first test tho they decline to confirm it. That said he looks on track for the second test. And also Jamie Roberts is unlikely to be available. for the first test.

It's getting a bit thin where wingers are concerned. Maybe Gatland could call some real wingers over. Vicer, Trimble, Dave Kearney, Ashton etc etc there has got to be a list the length of my johnson of wingers available who are better than a retired player plying his trade with an amature outfitin Japan. for gods sake! this is ridiculous

Williams played the gane purely because he was there and eligible. But in answer to youre question no there aren't.

Wonderman with all due respect. Go back to the wendyball section. You clearly don't know anything about this.