Some people evidently have got worked up about the issue, on both sides of the debate.
Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm not foaming at the mouth about his 'disloyalty' but I do think his silence and now statements of 'confusion' (read my excellent article on the subject right away - it's better than Robb's! http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/217800) are calculated and aren't a very honourable way to treat the club and fans. Contrast that with Ronaldo's honesty about his intentions.
Equally, views of him as a footballer are polarised. Some people depict him as our best player and portray his transfer to Chelsea as handing them the league. Others see him as a washed up has-been who will make Torres and Shevchenko's Chelsea careers look like Drogba's. I'd say the truth is somewhere in between.
One way or another this just needs to be sorted out. If he does indeed want to go, we need to get the best deal for ourselves (fee wise and where he goes next).
He doesn't owe us anything, so if he does want to move on, then let that be that. He's always tired his hardest when he's put on the shirt and that's all we can ask.
Either Moyes and Rooney need to sit down and sort things out internally.
--or--
Rooney leaves to the highest bidder.
I think Rooney is over-analysing this in the wrong way. We are going to play over 50+ games this season and there are going to be injuries here and there. He is going to get adequate amount of playing time.
Pride, if he wants to go, hand in a transfer request. Why should get get a % of the fee when he clearly wants to go.
His PR team went out of their way to make sure that everyone knew Rooney didn't hand in an OFFICIAL transfer request.
But one thing is for sure, if he goes to Chelsea they will have someone who will score goals and put away chances unlike Torres. He will make them stronger and him leaving us does weaken us (unless we sort out the bleeming midfield).
Selling him abroad for a lower fee would be worth it than selling him to Chelsea for 35million.
Nobody says that just cause you don't mind him loving you hate him, I don't mind him leaving however he should still be held in high regard. A united legend in my eyes however people saying they would boo if they ever saw him play and how he has acted can't be forgiven etc etc, tis just stupid.
Robb, the one star wasn't from me, by the way! You believe me, right?
Rooney is gone. If not this summer, then the next. I just hope to get a very good fee if he is staying in England or sold abroad.
I do hope it ends up like Heinze saga where one team pursues him and we say no for only Real Madrid to come in a buy him. They are selling their argentine striker and getting Rooney would help boost their shirt sales like it did with Ronaldo and Beckham.
'The Rooney civil war', the OP opines.
Personally, i have never known a war to be 'civil'. How oxymoronic
Let there be Blood i say!
I personally think Rooney will hand in his request and we'll reluctantly sell him to Chelsea for £30-35 million and go buy Fabregas or Modric.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A 29yr old Van Persie in last yr of his contract went for £24m.
£30m for Rooney would be an absolute bargain for Chelsea. The bidding should start at £40m and go from there. If Falcao & Cavani are worth more than £50m, then Rooney is easily worth more than £40m.
I really can't see us caving in to Chelsea for just £30m. In fact, I don't see us selling to them full stop.
Se85
The difference is that Rooney has asked to leave and everyone knows it. Had Chelsea wanted to buy a happy and healthy Rooney from us who had never asked to leave then we could be looking at a bid of at least £60 million.
But with the circumstances as they are now, Chelsea (and United know) that if we don't sell Rooney we're gonna be left with a sulking player on £200K per week just waiting for his contract to run down.
That brings the price right down.
comment by Robb_Targaryen (U9808)
posted 14 seconds ago
Se85
The difference is that Rooney has asked to leave and everyone knows it. Had Chelsea wanted to buy a happy and healthy Rooney from us who had never asked to leave then we could be looking at a bid of at least £60 million.
But with the circumstances as they are now, Chelsea (and United know) that if we don't sell Rooney we're gonna be left with a sulking player on £200K per week just waiting for his contract to run down.
That brings the price right down.
================================
Sadly i agree with this Aussie.
Be that as it may 22M from Chelsea is a derisory offer.
Be that as it may 22M from Chelsea is a derisory offer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea knew it was never going to be accepted just as we knew that £26 million for Fabregas was never going to be accepted.
I think we offered £14 million for RVP last season which was turned down.
Every player has a price and I think that Rooneys and Fabregas' will both be fairly similar.
I wouldn't even pick up the phone from Chelsea unless it was an offer over £40m.
The one thing they don't have is a world class striker. And if you want to win the PL title, you need at least one.
We have two in RVP & Rooney.
Chelsea don't have a single one. They have Torres and a young Lukaku who despite the massive potential isn't the finished article just yet.
If Chelsea want their missing piece of the jigsaw from us, they are going to have to pay a hell of a lot more than £22m.
If Chelsea want their missing piece of the jigsaw from us, they are going to have to pay a hell of a lot more than £22m.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be £35 million max. And also depends on who we buy. I'm certain we won't sell Rooney until we've signed our own marquee signing.
SE85
I do think you are exaggerating the implications of selling to Chelsea. Even if Rooney goes back to consistently being the player he could be, he isn't the only player of that quality in the world. If Chelsea don't buy him, they'll buy someone of similar quality soon enough. If we sell him, we'll buy someone of similar quality when we need to.
Ideally, we wouldn't sell the player to a rival. But he isn't the man who makes the whole team tick any more. If he goes to Chelsea and Moyes gets to renovate his team according to his plans, Chelsea may be a lot stronger, but so will we.
But who are the players available of similar quality to Rooney? Falcoa, Cavani, Tevez, Lewandowski aren't going to Chelsea. I can't think of anyone in the world who's available who's in the same bracket as Rooney. Furthermore, Rooney is English, he'll need no settling in period, he's played in the Premier League all his life and has proved that if you stick him up top then he'll score goals.
His work rate and determination are two of his greatest qualities and it's these qualities which I think will not let him go the same way Torres has went. Torres is a shadow of his former self and seems to give up when the going gets tough. Rooney is just not built this way.
I'm not saying that Rooney going to Chelsea would hand Chelsea the League, but I will say that the chances are very very high that he'll be a success there and score a Hell of a lot of goals. For all these reasons I don't want United to sell to Chelsea, but if it comes down to it and Chelsea are the only realistic choice United have then United must make sure they pay big big money for him. As much as having a disruptive influence in the dressing room is harmful to us I feel having a proven world class striker in Wayne Rooney is paramount to Chelsea's title hopes next season. They are in dire need of someone of Rooney's caliber up front. So make them pay what he's worth.
Patriarch
I think Suarez would become a target if Rooney didn't go there.
Like I said on another post, what would be worse?
Us keeping an unhappy Rooney and Chelsea buying Suarez (or Higuian) while we lose out on vital transfer money of our own or us selling an unhappy Rooney, stopping Chelsea from buying IMO a better player in Suarez and us using that £35 million or so on a player that we need in CM?
I rate Rooney more than some people on this site but even then I feel that having been playing at the very highest level from the age of 16 his body is beginning to break down and I think that he will pick up more and more niggling injuries the older he gets.
He may go to Chelsea and miss little chunks of the season with the kind of nigglng injuries he missed for us last season.
People who keep harking on about Rooney at Chelsea won't be that good are living in la la land and will be MADE to eat their own words. The actual truth is, he'll be a revelation for them as a number 9 and also as a commercial asset to CFC as well.
Call yourself United fans? Since when did we become a club who sells it's best players to title rivals? I'm 28 and I don't remember us doing it anytime in the last 20 odd years.
*Tevez (before somebody brings it up) was out of our hands. We didn't own him in the first place.
Call yourself United fans? Since when did we become a club who sells it's best players to title rivals? I'm 28 and I don't remember us doing it anytime in the last 20 odd years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What does being a good or bad United fan have to do with United selling to a rival?
How bout calling Rooney a bad United player because he may end up at Chelsea?
I can't speak for all the other United supporters but this whole thing has a sense of inevitability about it. Rooney wants out, Chelsea seem to be the only team that wants him.
What else can we do? There's not a cats chance in hell that we'll let Rooney rot in the reserves for 2 years then lose him for free. That would cost us the good part of £55 million which is insane.
There comes a time when United and our fans need to trust that United with the squad they have now (minus Rooney but plus one or two big signings) will be better than Chelsea and Rooney.
If someone said 'call yourself United fans' i'd retort by asking why people are so scared to see Rooney at Chelsea when we have RVP and most likely a top new signing to join him once Rooney goes.
Having faith in your club, no matter who comes and goes is what really makes someone a great fan.
I agree that being ok with Rooney going to Chelsea or not doesn't really show if you're a true United fan or not. But I don't agree that Suarez is a better player than Rooney. Especially as a number nine and especially when you take into account all the trouble that comes with Suarez. Add to that the fact that Suarez wants to go to Madrid some time in his career.
And Rooney has had niggling injuries his whole career. This idea that his body is "breaking down" is just a theory without any substance to it bar your own meandering thought.
Finally, Suarez has made more noises about wanting to leave than Rooney has in the last few months. So if United don't want to risk having an unhappy player in their squad, Liverpool are in the same situation. Yet they seem happy to play hardball and hold out for £40m. Why The Hell would United not also play hardball.
Rooney going to Chelsea would infuriate me. But I wouldn't let him stew in the reserves either. Waste of time. But United must make sure they get big money for him.
Rooney going to Chelsea would infuriate me. But I wouldn't let him stew in the reserves either. Waste of time. But United must make sure they get big money for him.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. I guess what constitutes big money depends on how you see the situation.
If Rooney does hand in a transfer request, for me that knocks at least £5-10 million off the fee we could get because if United ask for too much and Rooney ends up staying we've got to find a way to have him co-exist in the squad with the players who actually want to be there.
Torres wanted to leave Liverpool and they still got £50m. United have got to think like that.
SE85
People who keep harking on about Rooney at Chelsea won't be that good are living in la la land and will be MADE to eat their own words. The actual truth is, he'll be a revelation for them as a number 9 and also as a commercial asset to CFC as well.
Call yourself United fans?
---------------------------
We'll have better quality debates if we accept that discussing how players will perform in the future is a matter of opinion, not fact, and we therefore need to justify our opinions with reasonable arguments. Proclaiming your view as 'the truth' isn't sufficient.
As for 'Call yourself fans?', I have to say that's pretty pathetic.
I believe Rooney would be a massive success at Chelsea but I would rather not be proven right....
How about the ol' Carroll trick, we tell Chelsea they have to buy us Bale - £20M to get Rooney
Sign in if you want to comment
The Rooney civil war.
Page 1 of 2
posted on 18/7/13
Some people evidently have got worked up about the issue, on both sides of the debate.
Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm not foaming at the mouth about his 'disloyalty' but I do think his silence and now statements of 'confusion' (read my excellent article on the subject right away - it's better than Robb's! http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/217800) are calculated and aren't a very honourable way to treat the club and fans. Contrast that with Ronaldo's honesty about his intentions.
Equally, views of him as a footballer are polarised. Some people depict him as our best player and portray his transfer to Chelsea as handing them the league. Others see him as a washed up has-been who will make Torres and Shevchenko's Chelsea careers look like Drogba's. I'd say the truth is somewhere in between.
posted on 18/7/13
One way or another this just needs to be sorted out. If he does indeed want to go, we need to get the best deal for ourselves (fee wise and where he goes next).
He doesn't owe us anything, so if he does want to move on, then let that be that. He's always tired his hardest when he's put on the shirt and that's all we can ask.
posted on 18/7/13
Either Moyes and Rooney need to sit down and sort things out internally.
--or--
Rooney leaves to the highest bidder.
I think Rooney is over-analysing this in the wrong way. We are going to play over 50+ games this season and there are going to be injuries here and there. He is going to get adequate amount of playing time.
posted on 18/7/13
Pride, if he wants to go, hand in a transfer request. Why should get get a % of the fee when he clearly wants to go.
His PR team went out of their way to make sure that everyone knew Rooney didn't hand in an OFFICIAL transfer request.
But one thing is for sure, if he goes to Chelsea they will have someone who will score goals and put away chances unlike Torres. He will make them stronger and him leaving us does weaken us (unless we sort out the bleeming midfield).
Selling him abroad for a lower fee would be worth it than selling him to Chelsea for 35million.
posted on 18/7/13
Nobody says that just cause you don't mind him loving you hate him, I don't mind him leaving however he should still be held in high regard. A united legend in my eyes however people saying they would boo if they ever saw him play and how he has acted can't be forgiven etc etc, tis just stupid.
posted on 18/7/13
Robb, the one star wasn't from me, by the way! You believe me, right?
posted on 18/7/13
I know you 4 starred me
posted on 18/7/13
Rooney is gone. If not this summer, then the next. I just hope to get a very good fee if he is staying in England or sold abroad.
I do hope it ends up like Heinze saga where one team pursues him and we say no for only Real Madrid to come in a buy him. They are selling their argentine striker and getting Rooney would help boost their shirt sales like it did with Ronaldo and Beckham.
posted on 18/7/13
'The Rooney civil war', the OP opines.
Personally, i have never known a war to be 'civil'. How oxymoronic
Let there be Blood i say!
posted on 18/7/13
I personally think Rooney will hand in his request and we'll reluctantly sell him to Chelsea for £30-35 million and go buy Fabregas or Modric.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A 29yr old Van Persie in last yr of his contract went for £24m.
£30m for Rooney would be an absolute bargain for Chelsea. The bidding should start at £40m and go from there. If Falcao & Cavani are worth more than £50m, then Rooney is easily worth more than £40m.
I really can't see us caving in to Chelsea for just £30m. In fact, I don't see us selling to them full stop.
posted on 18/7/13
Se85
The difference is that Rooney has asked to leave and everyone knows it. Had Chelsea wanted to buy a happy and healthy Rooney from us who had never asked to leave then we could be looking at a bid of at least £60 million.
But with the circumstances as they are now, Chelsea (and United know) that if we don't sell Rooney we're gonna be left with a sulking player on £200K per week just waiting for his contract to run down.
That brings the price right down.
posted on 18/7/13
comment by Robb_Targaryen (U9808)
posted 14 seconds ago
Se85
The difference is that Rooney has asked to leave and everyone knows it. Had Chelsea wanted to buy a happy and healthy Rooney from us who had never asked to leave then we could be looking at a bid of at least £60 million.
But with the circumstances as they are now, Chelsea (and United know) that if we don't sell Rooney we're gonna be left with a sulking player on £200K per week just waiting for his contract to run down.
That brings the price right down.
================================
Sadly i agree with this Aussie.
Be that as it may 22M from Chelsea is a derisory offer.
posted on 18/7/13
Be that as it may 22M from Chelsea is a derisory offer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea knew it was never going to be accepted just as we knew that £26 million for Fabregas was never going to be accepted.
I think we offered £14 million for RVP last season which was turned down.
Every player has a price and I think that Rooneys and Fabregas' will both be fairly similar.
posted on 18/7/13
I wouldn't even pick up the phone from Chelsea unless it was an offer over £40m.
The one thing they don't have is a world class striker. And if you want to win the PL title, you need at least one.
We have two in RVP & Rooney.
Chelsea don't have a single one. They have Torres and a young Lukaku who despite the massive potential isn't the finished article just yet.
If Chelsea want their missing piece of the jigsaw from us, they are going to have to pay a hell of a lot more than £22m.
posted on 18/7/13
If Chelsea want their missing piece of the jigsaw from us, they are going to have to pay a hell of a lot more than £22m.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It'll be £35 million max. And also depends on who we buy. I'm certain we won't sell Rooney until we've signed our own marquee signing.
posted on 18/7/13
SE85
I do think you are exaggerating the implications of selling to Chelsea. Even if Rooney goes back to consistently being the player he could be, he isn't the only player of that quality in the world. If Chelsea don't buy him, they'll buy someone of similar quality soon enough. If we sell him, we'll buy someone of similar quality when we need to.
Ideally, we wouldn't sell the player to a rival. But he isn't the man who makes the whole team tick any more. If he goes to Chelsea and Moyes gets to renovate his team according to his plans, Chelsea may be a lot stronger, but so will we.
posted on 18/7/13
But who are the players available of similar quality to Rooney? Falcoa, Cavani, Tevez, Lewandowski aren't going to Chelsea. I can't think of anyone in the world who's available who's in the same bracket as Rooney. Furthermore, Rooney is English, he'll need no settling in period, he's played in the Premier League all his life and has proved that if you stick him up top then he'll score goals.
His work rate and determination are two of his greatest qualities and it's these qualities which I think will not let him go the same way Torres has went. Torres is a shadow of his former self and seems to give up when the going gets tough. Rooney is just not built this way.
I'm not saying that Rooney going to Chelsea would hand Chelsea the League, but I will say that the chances are very very high that he'll be a success there and score a Hell of a lot of goals. For all these reasons I don't want United to sell to Chelsea, but if it comes down to it and Chelsea are the only realistic choice United have then United must make sure they pay big big money for him. As much as having a disruptive influence in the dressing room is harmful to us I feel having a proven world class striker in Wayne Rooney is paramount to Chelsea's title hopes next season. They are in dire need of someone of Rooney's caliber up front. So make them pay what he's worth.
posted on 18/7/13
Patriarch
I think Suarez would become a target if Rooney didn't go there.
Like I said on another post, what would be worse?
Us keeping an unhappy Rooney and Chelsea buying Suarez (or Higuian) while we lose out on vital transfer money of our own or us selling an unhappy Rooney, stopping Chelsea from buying IMO a better player in Suarez and us using that £35 million or so on a player that we need in CM?
I rate Rooney more than some people on this site but even then I feel that having been playing at the very highest level from the age of 16 his body is beginning to break down and I think that he will pick up more and more niggling injuries the older he gets.
He may go to Chelsea and miss little chunks of the season with the kind of nigglng injuries he missed for us last season.
posted on 18/7/13
People who keep harking on about Rooney at Chelsea won't be that good are living in la la land and will be MADE to eat their own words. The actual truth is, he'll be a revelation for them as a number 9 and also as a commercial asset to CFC as well.
Call yourself United fans? Since when did we become a club who sells it's best players to title rivals? I'm 28 and I don't remember us doing it anytime in the last 20 odd years.
*Tevez (before somebody brings it up) was out of our hands. We didn't own him in the first place.
posted on 18/7/13
Call yourself United fans? Since when did we become a club who sells it's best players to title rivals? I'm 28 and I don't remember us doing it anytime in the last 20 odd years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What does being a good or bad United fan have to do with United selling to a rival?
How bout calling Rooney a bad United player because he may end up at Chelsea?
I can't speak for all the other United supporters but this whole thing has a sense of inevitability about it. Rooney wants out, Chelsea seem to be the only team that wants him.
What else can we do? There's not a cats chance in hell that we'll let Rooney rot in the reserves for 2 years then lose him for free. That would cost us the good part of £55 million which is insane.
There comes a time when United and our fans need to trust that United with the squad they have now (minus Rooney but plus one or two big signings) will be better than Chelsea and Rooney.
If someone said 'call yourself United fans' i'd retort by asking why people are so scared to see Rooney at Chelsea when we have RVP and most likely a top new signing to join him once Rooney goes.
Having faith in your club, no matter who comes and goes is what really makes someone a great fan.
posted on 18/7/13
I agree that being ok with Rooney going to Chelsea or not doesn't really show if you're a true United fan or not. But I don't agree that Suarez is a better player than Rooney. Especially as a number nine and especially when you take into account all the trouble that comes with Suarez. Add to that the fact that Suarez wants to go to Madrid some time in his career.
And Rooney has had niggling injuries his whole career. This idea that his body is "breaking down" is just a theory without any substance to it bar your own meandering thought.
Finally, Suarez has made more noises about wanting to leave than Rooney has in the last few months. So if United don't want to risk having an unhappy player in their squad, Liverpool are in the same situation. Yet they seem happy to play hardball and hold out for £40m. Why The Hell would United not also play hardball.
Rooney going to Chelsea would infuriate me. But I wouldn't let him stew in the reserves either. Waste of time. But United must make sure they get big money for him.
posted on 18/7/13
Rooney going to Chelsea would infuriate me. But I wouldn't let him stew in the reserves either. Waste of time. But United must make sure they get big money for him.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. I guess what constitutes big money depends on how you see the situation.
If Rooney does hand in a transfer request, for me that knocks at least £5-10 million off the fee we could get because if United ask for too much and Rooney ends up staying we've got to find a way to have him co-exist in the squad with the players who actually want to be there.
posted on 18/7/13
Torres wanted to leave Liverpool and they still got £50m. United have got to think like that.
posted on 18/7/13
SE85
People who keep harking on about Rooney at Chelsea won't be that good are living in la la land and will be MADE to eat their own words. The actual truth is, he'll be a revelation for them as a number 9 and also as a commercial asset to CFC as well.
Call yourself United fans?
---------------------------
We'll have better quality debates if we accept that discussing how players will perform in the future is a matter of opinion, not fact, and we therefore need to justify our opinions with reasonable arguments. Proclaiming your view as 'the truth' isn't sufficient.
As for 'Call yourself fans?', I have to say that's pretty pathetic.
posted on 18/7/13
I believe Rooney would be a massive success at Chelsea but I would rather not be proven right....
How about the ol' Carroll trick, we tell Chelsea they have to buy us Bale - £20M to get Rooney
Page 1 of 2