No you do need major changes but Ive still got a weird feeling that you"ll not do as bad as I and others have made out.Could be a poison chalice though.
This is definitely a 5 article I agree with every single thing you have said. The only thing I would disagree with is that we were actually in a lot better shape when Henry left than we are now.
comment by Diaby the ABU (U8592)
posted 4 minutes ago
Wenger Out!!
-----------------------------------------
Not sure you've understood, i don't want Wenger out, i just want to see evidence that he's changed his ways a bit, tactically more than anything else, as this is clearly the major problem we've had for years.
comment by The Adventures Of Batmanu Eboué & Robin Van Persie - Free Luka for the love of god. Free him! Daniel Levy you evil man. Won't you think of the children? WHY WON'T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! (U2725)
posted 3 minutes ago
This is definitely a 5 star article I agree with every single thing you have said. The only thing I would disagree with is that we were actually in a lot better shape when Henry left than we are now.
----------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, that was perhaps a bit over the top.. It's just frustrating that we are losing our best and most influential player.
I genuinely believe that had we won a couple of trophies he would be much more reluctant to leave. Who can blame him, he always gave 100% for us, but had to watch as other players had mental meltdowns and gave up, i can't blame him at all in that respect..
Sorry, I think I didn't phrase myself correctly. What I mean is that we were a better team in 07 than we are now. I think our squad in 07/08 was awesome. Would have won the league if not for what happened to Eddy.
I don't believe Fergie would have won the league operating on our resources and fielding Squillaci, Clichy and Almunia in defence. I strongly disagree with you there. For all the talk about United having their weakest squad last season, they could field a 2nd 11 that would cost much more than our first team.
I agree with most points. However, I do not see that Wenger would change. His tactical ability has always been poor and he never was able to train defenders. Lee Dixon was asked about it in a Q&A session and he replied "Arsene let the defenders get on with their job". Modern football works different and we all know that a title winning team will be build from the back.
Our mental problems are also down to the manager. He is in charge to sign mentally strong players, or at least to have a mix of different characters in his team. Another problem is that AW himself is not a very confident and mentally strong manager. How can I expect confident and mentally strong players when they look to the bench and their manager is biting on his nails...
Imagine we would exchange manager with ManU. I think it would take a couple of seasons and our problems would be their problems....
mthierry he might not have assembled the squad we have with the resources available but I do think he could have achieved more with the squad Wenger has assembled. Lets face it last season we lost the league because of what happened in the CC Final. How often do United implode after 1 bad result? Never. How often do we implode after 1 bad result. Pretty often. Even the Invincibles imploded after we lost at OT.
And that doesn't mention how deplorable the competition around them was. Arsenal of 07/08 and Liverpool of 08/09 and a couple of Chelsea runner-up sides would have walked the league last season.
What I think we need is a new defensive coach. I've got to admit to thinking when I heard that Pat Rice was staying that maybe it would have been better if he had retired. The fresh face in training could have been a good thing.
comment by The Adventures Of Batmanu Eboué & Robin Van Persie - Free Luka for the love of god. Free him! Daniel Levy you evil man. Won't you think of the children? WHY WON'T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! (U2725)
------------------------------------------
Yeah, having a second look i see, don't think i read it properly!
comment by mthierry (U7482)
Yes i see what your saying, with regards to players like Squillaci and Almunia.
It was more about making a point, in as much as mentally and tactically, Fergie is far superiior to Wenger.
As for the resources thing, i don't buy that either, with the money Arsenal charge for tickets and the revenue we create, the money is clearly there, Wenger just has the inabilty to address issues such as Almunia, whereas i'm certain Fergie would insist on the funds to replace them. I mean look at how he operates, he has seen players gettting, older, or not putting the work in, and he replaces them, he disn't rest on his laurels, he acts. Wenger just doesn't do this.
Einstein once said, Madness is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results, this for me sums Wenger up.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I also firmly believe if Wenger had United's back 4, he'd have won the league. Their defender are simply a level above ours irrespective of the coach. Let's not forget the invincibles defence which was built by Wenger.
Iceman,
I respect your opinion but disagree. These things often boil down to cold, hard cash- not the media rhetoric about mental strength. Wenger competed well in every way with Fergie before the advent of billionaire owners upset the balance, blowing us out of competition.
The disparity in spending between us and the top 3 is greater than that between us and a side like Aston Villa. Arshavin's £16m transfer is still our most expensive signing for goodness sake. Compare that to our rivals.
The thing I also do get, if you go through our squad man by man and judge them on recent merits, what happened to the great youngsters that were going to grow up, the point i'm making is we really only have a few really very good players. I mean, what says it all to me is look at the deadwood, nobody will take Bendy and Eboue is like worth 3.5 million. There is potential there like Wilshere and Ramsey for sure but most of the rest are proving to be OK at best.
Oooh I've been waiting for a well-thought out and intelligent article on this board for months! Thank you.
I agree with everything you say. I also agree that we had a better team in 07/08. Somehow there was less mental baggage on our players. The midfield of rosicky fabregas flamini hleb was superb. Adebayor scored goals for fun. Billy and Kolo...Eduardo as well, what a class act he was.
This team is, to quote The Hudsucker Proxy, "outta hope, outta rope, outta time." Predictable football (hardly good to watch any more), sloppy defence, NO GOALS.
"There's some seriously deep rooted issues here"
This point resonated strongest with me. I don't buy that our players are menally "fragile" as everybody likes to mindlessly repeat. But I think there are mentality issues to address quickly.
You mentioned heads going down too quickly. I would add that the slack attitude of a lot of our players when we take a lead is a big problem too. And I would say that a good work ethic around the field at all times is something we need more of (again, mentality issues). You know we cannot close a game out. Teams like United can though...
Our goalkeepers suffer obvious confidence issues and whilst aparently they are good in training, put a little competitive pressure on them and they fold. Again, mentality. Schzzhnznnyeezy might be our answer to this. He has made mistakes, but all keepers do. That is only one position though.
Confidence again is key for a lot of our players it seems. We don't have many players who feel they rightly deserve to win titles and cups it seems (I feel this anyway). We have folded completely against other big teams recently when in reality, we have had the quality to come good in these types of games.
Take the likes of Chamack for instance. We have seen that he can do it. Stamina and fitness aside, we know that he can be a real handful and can score goals. Look at him now. He looks lost! What is the difference between todays Chamack, and the one that started last season against Liverpool?
And it takes our lads so long to get back into form again because they are surrounded by lots of players with similar confidence/mentality issues.
I'm a staunch Wenger supporter still, but some managers really instill a good mentality from day one and then go on, depending on the quality of their squad, to win things.
Make your own conclusions from that last point.
you are all dithering around the "real proble at Arsenal" and this is Wenger.
As the OP mentions Fergie could have won last year and in 2008 with our respective squads. Wenger did not.
Dont get me wrong, Wenger is good in his own right but has lost the plot in recent years. It has nothing to do with monies to spend as we have had money to spend but he has opted not to do so. And the reults can only be placed at his doorstep.
Wenger needs to shape up or ship out to put it simply. The team is not the real problem its the coach.
i agree lex, great article exxcept for one thing.
The conclusion he was leading to he did not state and that is that Wenger is the real problem at Arsenal.
You say that, but I bet he nailed those caterers down to a good deal for the club during their contract negotiations last season.
cheers guys, i'm glad many agree with what i'm saying. I suppose it does boil down to Wenger being the problem, but i still find it hard to actually say it.
After everything he's done for Arsenal, i'd like to think he can still change, although i'm not sure he will. I have a feeling it could very well be his last season at Arsenal, which saddens me....
The only issue is, who do you bring in to replace him?
I think the reports of Wenger's position being under threat are a little premature.
* If we go out of the CL qualifers, but retain top 4 this season, the board will still back him.
* If we get through against Udinese, go out in the last 16, slip to a 5th place finish, but bag the one of the domestic cups, the board will still back him.
* If we slip to 5th, quarters of the CL, no cups, but show signs of real progession on the pitch, the board will still back him.
Only if nothing approaching one of the above scenarios happens, will the board start to get fidgety I think.
And none of us should be hoping for that.
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The REAL Problem with Arsenal
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posted on 7/8/11
Wenger Out!!
posted on 7/8/11
No you do need major changes but Ive still got a weird feeling that you"ll not do as bad as I and others have made out.Could be a poison chalice though.
posted on 7/8/11
This is definitely a 5 article I agree with every single thing you have said. The only thing I would disagree with is that we were actually in a lot better shape when Henry left than we are now.
posted on 7/8/11
comment by Diaby the ABU (U8592)
posted 4 minutes ago
Wenger Out!!
-----------------------------------------
Not sure you've understood, i don't want Wenger out, i just want to see evidence that he's changed his ways a bit, tactically more than anything else, as this is clearly the major problem we've had for years.
posted on 7/8/11
He won't change.
posted on 7/8/11
comment by The Adventures Of Batmanu Eboué & Robin Van Persie - Free Luka for the love of god. Free him! Daniel Levy you evil man. Won't you think of the children? WHY WON'T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! (U2725)
posted 3 minutes ago
This is definitely a 5 star article I agree with every single thing you have said. The only thing I would disagree with is that we were actually in a lot better shape when Henry left than we are now.
----------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, that was perhaps a bit over the top.. It's just frustrating that we are losing our best and most influential player.
I genuinely believe that had we won a couple of trophies he would be much more reluctant to leave. Who can blame him, he always gave 100% for us, but had to watch as other players had mental meltdowns and gave up, i can't blame him at all in that respect..
posted on 7/8/11
Sorry, I think I didn't phrase myself correctly. What I mean is that we were a better team in 07 than we are now. I think our squad in 07/08 was awesome. Would have won the league if not for what happened to Eddy.
posted on 7/8/11
I don't believe Fergie would have won the league operating on our resources and fielding Squillaci, Clichy and Almunia in defence. I strongly disagree with you there. For all the talk about United having their weakest squad last season, they could field a 2nd 11 that would cost much more than our first team.
posted on 7/8/11
I agree with most points. However, I do not see that Wenger would change. His tactical ability has always been poor and he never was able to train defenders. Lee Dixon was asked about it in a Q&A session and he replied "Arsene let the defenders get on with their job". Modern football works different and we all know that a title winning team will be build from the back.
Our mental problems are also down to the manager. He is in charge to sign mentally strong players, or at least to have a mix of different characters in his team. Another problem is that AW himself is not a very confident and mentally strong manager. How can I expect confident and mentally strong players when they look to the bench and their manager is biting on his nails...
Imagine we would exchange manager with ManU. I think it would take a couple of seasons and our problems would be their problems....
posted on 7/8/11
mthierry he might not have assembled the squad we have with the resources available but I do think he could have achieved more with the squad Wenger has assembled. Lets face it last season we lost the league because of what happened in the CC Final. How often do United implode after 1 bad result? Never. How often do we implode after 1 bad result. Pretty often. Even the Invincibles imploded after we lost at OT.
posted on 7/8/11
And that doesn't mention how deplorable the competition around them was. Arsenal of 07/08 and Liverpool of 08/09 and a couple of Chelsea runner-up sides would have walked the league last season.
posted on 7/8/11
What I think we need is a new defensive coach. I've got to admit to thinking when I heard that Pat Rice was staying that maybe it would have been better if he had retired. The fresh face in training could have been a good thing.
posted on 7/8/11
comment by The Adventures Of Batmanu Eboué & Robin Van Persie - Free Luka for the love of god. Free him! Daniel Levy you evil man. Won't you think of the children? WHY WON'T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! (U2725)
------------------------------------------
Yeah, having a second look i see, don't think i read it properly!
comment by mthierry (U7482)
Yes i see what your saying, with regards to players like Squillaci and Almunia.
It was more about making a point, in as much as mentally and tactically, Fergie is far superiior to Wenger.
As for the resources thing, i don't buy that either, with the money Arsenal charge for tickets and the revenue we create, the money is clearly there, Wenger just has the inabilty to address issues such as Almunia, whereas i'm certain Fergie would insist on the funds to replace them. I mean look at how he operates, he has seen players gettting, older, or not putting the work in, and he replaces them, he disn't rest on his laurels, he acts. Wenger just doesn't do this.
Einstein once said, Madness is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results, this for me sums Wenger up.
posted on 7/8/11
We'll have to agree to disagree. I also firmly believe if Wenger had United's back 4, he'd have won the league. Their defender are simply a level above ours irrespective of the coach. Let's not forget the invincibles defence which was built by Wenger.
posted on 7/8/11
Iceman,
I respect your opinion but disagree. These things often boil down to cold, hard cash- not the media rhetoric about mental strength. Wenger competed well in every way with Fergie before the advent of billionaire owners upset the balance, blowing us out of competition.
posted on 7/8/11
The disparity in spending between us and the top 3 is greater than that between us and a side like Aston Villa. Arshavin's £16m transfer is still our most expensive signing for goodness sake. Compare that to our rivals.
posted on 7/8/11
The thing I also do get, if you go through our squad man by man and judge them on recent merits, what happened to the great youngsters that were going to grow up, the point i'm making is we really only have a few really very good players. I mean, what says it all to me is look at the deadwood, nobody will take Bendy and Eboue is like worth 3.5 million. There is potential there like Wilshere and Ramsey for sure but most of the rest are proving to be OK at best.
posted on 7/8/11
Oooh I've been waiting for a well-thought out and intelligent article on this board for months! Thank you.
I agree with everything you say. I also agree that we had a better team in 07/08. Somehow there was less mental baggage on our players. The midfield of rosicky fabregas flamini hleb was superb. Adebayor scored goals for fun. Billy and Kolo...Eduardo as well, what a class act he was.
This team is, to quote The Hudsucker Proxy, "outta hope, outta rope, outta time." Predictable football (hardly good to watch any more), sloppy defence, NO GOALS.
posted on 8/8/11
"There's some seriously deep rooted issues here"
This point resonated strongest with me. I don't buy that our players are menally "fragile" as everybody likes to mindlessly repeat. But I think there are mentality issues to address quickly.
You mentioned heads going down too quickly. I would add that the slack attitude of a lot of our players when we take a lead is a big problem too. And I would say that a good work ethic around the field at all times is something we need more of (again, mentality issues). You know we cannot close a game out. Teams like United can though...
Our goalkeepers suffer obvious confidence issues and whilst aparently they are good in training, put a little competitive pressure on them and they fold. Again, mentality. Schzzhnznnyeezy might be our answer to this. He has made mistakes, but all keepers do. That is only one position though.
Confidence again is key for a lot of our players it seems. We don't have many players who feel they rightly deserve to win titles and cups it seems (I feel this anyway). We have folded completely against other big teams recently when in reality, we have had the quality to come good in these types of games.
Take the likes of Chamack for instance. We have seen that he can do it. Stamina and fitness aside, we know that he can be a real handful and can score goals. Look at him now. He looks lost! What is the difference between todays Chamack, and the one that started last season against Liverpool?
And it takes our lads so long to get back into form again because they are surrounded by lots of players with similar confidence/mentality issues.
I'm a staunch Wenger supporter still, but some managers really instill a good mentality from day one and then go on, depending on the quality of their squad, to win things.
Make your own conclusions from that last point.
posted on 8/8/11
you are all dithering around the "real proble at Arsenal" and this is Wenger.
As the OP mentions Fergie could have won last year and in 2008 with our respective squads. Wenger did not.
Dont get me wrong, Wenger is good in his own right but has lost the plot in recent years. It has nothing to do with monies to spend as we have had money to spend but he has opted not to do so. And the reults can only be placed at his doorstep.
Wenger needs to shape up or ship out to put it simply. The team is not the real problem its the coach.
posted on 8/8/11
Great article.
posted on 8/8/11
i agree lex, great article exxcept for one thing.
The conclusion he was leading to he did not state and that is that Wenger is the real problem at Arsenal.
posted on 8/8/11
You say that, but I bet he nailed those caterers down to a good deal for the club during their contract negotiations last season.
posted on 8/8/11
cheers guys, i'm glad many agree with what i'm saying. I suppose it does boil down to Wenger being the problem, but i still find it hard to actually say it.
After everything he's done for Arsenal, i'd like to think he can still change, although i'm not sure he will. I have a feeling it could very well be his last season at Arsenal, which saddens me....
The only issue is, who do you bring in to replace him?
posted on 8/8/11
I think the reports of Wenger's position being under threat are a little premature.
* If we go out of the CL qualifers, but retain top 4 this season, the board will still back him.
* If we get through against Udinese, go out in the last 16, slip to a 5th place finish, but bag the one of the domestic cups, the board will still back him.
* If we slip to 5th, quarters of the CL, no cups, but show signs of real progession on the pitch, the board will still back him.
Only if nothing approaching one of the above scenarios happens, will the board start to get fidgety I think.
And none of us should be hoping for that.
Page 1 of 1