How do you know we could have gotten Mata 2 years ago?
Maybe he just wanted to go to Chelsea?

He had agreed to go to Arsenal 2 years ago. But Arsenal wouldn't pay an extra £1m.

"Having a trio of Nani/Kagawa/Mata all playing behind RVP and interchanging would be Fantastic"

You'd be buggered defensively with that lineup, the better teams in the CL would have a field day with that unless you change personnel in your midfield and defence.

From what I recollect, he had no preference on where he wanted to go. Valencia was clearly willing to sell. We clearly had a choice and opted for Young.

I remember writing an article about it on the old BBC 606, talking about how Mata was available and was shocked we were instead opting for Young.

Melton

We'll still be getting Fellaini too. We can focus on two or three targets at once. We're not that bad a club!

United nearly got Silva if I remember from Valencia, but we dithered and he ended up moving to the neighbours down the road

We bought Young so that we could swap him for Hazard later down the line.

You'd be buggered defensively with that lineup, the better teams in the CL would have a field day with that unless you change personnel in your midfield and defence.

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WHY???All those players track back. Plus the would be supported by 2 sold CMs. See no way the formation affects adversely on defense. Plus like I said any possible downside defensively will be made up considerably by the attacking upside

Why would they have a field day? It's quite normal these days to have an attacking trio behind a lone striker, it offers virtually the same defensive cover as a traditional 442.

Nani offers very good support to the RB while in Carrick and possibly Fellaini (or Cleverly) there is more than enough cover for the defence.

Ole

Fans talk about Mata as though he's a piece of meat. Jose wants Roo so he thinks 'I know, I'll offer them Mata'

Personally, I think Mata is worth far far more than that to Chelsea for them to even think about treating him that way and there hasn't been one shred of even gossip suggesting Mata fancies a move to United anyway

And let's not forget how angry Chelsea were when the newspapers made up the story last time regarding 'using' Mata has a tempter to get Rooney. They moved instantly to say that was total rubbish so their player didn't become disenchanted with the club

If Chelsea had any intention of using Mata to get Rooney, why haven't they done it already?

For me, people are grasping at straws if they think Chelsea would use Mata in such an appalling fashion, given that he has never expressed any desire to play for United, or indeed, wanting to leave Chelsea whatsoever.

Rooney and Mata are staying at their current clubs in my opinion as both clubs have been saying all Summer

Yeah I must admit I'm not reading too much into the possibility of Mata joining us, he's Chelsea's best player!

Does anyone even know who fabricated the whole Mata swap deal rumour?

Does anyone even know who fabricated the whole Mata swap deal rumour?
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As far as I'm aware it has barely even been mentioned in the media since Chelsea dismissed it a few weeks ago. People have just jumped to conclusions since Chelsea have hijacked the Wilian deal.

Though you must admit, given the quality they have in that area it seems very strange they would go after another attacking midfielder. Then again, it could just be Abramovich being Abramovich

"Why would they have a field day? It's quite normal these days to have an attacking trio behind a lone striker, it offers virtually the same defensive cover as a traditional 442"

It is normal to have it, but it offers completely different defensive cover, which is why teams that play 4231 play very mobile centre midfielders nowadays (Bayern, Dortmund), if not the midfield stays too deep. The formation is always vulnerable on the wings, it relies on pace in the defence and fullbacks to make up for it. Ferguson playing Wellbeck on the wing and pushing up on both sides is why your defence was the same as Liverpools last year.

Ole,

I would argue all of those players are good at tracking back. There is a difference between jogging back to a position you should be in and being good at tracking back.

not good, that should say!

by ole_20_legend (U14722)
One thing that is incredibly annoying though is that we could have easily got Mata 2 years ago

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That comes across as pretty arrogant, you’d certainly have a chance but Manchester United are not the only attractive club to join.

No it wasn't. The reason our defence was so poor during the first part of last season was because of constant injuries and no continuity. As soon as Vidic regained fitness into the new year our defence was solid and that worked with a 4231 formation including Carrick in midfield who isn't the most mobile. From the end of the year to just before the City game in April we conceded just 3 goals in 11 league matches.

Our 2 in midifeld hasn't really suffered from defensive duties, what it suffers from is working the ball into the attacking third and having more energy. In Nani, Kagawa and Mata you have 3 players who would offer support.

We'll still be getting Fellaini too
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Please God, Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I'm not so sure United will get Fellaini now. I think Everton will be stubborn and refuse to sell him at his previous buy out clause price or lower. I can't see the Glazers sanctioning a purchase of a player at a higher price than we could have got him for up to the end of July. It's catch 22 and i think Everton will play hardball and it won't happen. They will demand at least £25m and i don't think united will pay it as they will lose face by having to pay more than the buy out clause price.

"As soon as Vidic regained fitness into the new year our defence was solid and that worked with a 4231 formation including Carrick in midfield who isn't the most mobile. From the end of the year to just before the City game in April we conceded just 3 goals in 11 league matches."

You also sat deeper and scored less. Yes you won games, but it won't ever compete with a team like Bayern last year and win the CL.

My point is that with those three players mentioned, they will not work in a 4231 without changes in personnel. It is why Mourinho isn't that keen on Mata, he doesn't suit his 4231 as Mata works much better in a 433 - the team has greater stability to allow both the defensive and attacking threat.

There was an article mid way through last season about the pitfalls of that particular formation by Jonathon Wilson, it sums up the issues with it pretty well -

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/jan/15/the-question-4231-football-tactics

Ferguson playing Wellbeck on the wing and pushing up on both sides is why your defence was the same as Liverpools last year.
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Lack of concentration, poor ball retention, rotation of team and injury crisis was the reason for it being the same as Liverpool's.

Oh, and Giggs and Scholes in midfield.

That comes across as pretty arrogant, you’d certainly have a chance but Manchester United are not the only attractive club to join.

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Not to sound arrogant but if I remember correctly we tied up the Ashley Young deal by late June. Chelsea didnt have Mata signed till August. I know he was suppose to go to Arsenal at first, but again I see no reason we could not have competed with Arsenal. Especially given he didnt go there because they kept haggling over the price.

I am just saying that he was clearly for sale and really had no preference on where he wanted to go, yet it seems we made no inquiry and opted for Young effectively taking us out of the sweepstakes. That was clearly a monumental mistake.

My point is that with those three players mentioned, they will not work in a 4231 without changes in personnel. It is why Mourinho isn't that keen on Mata, he doesn't suit his 4231 as Mata works much better in a 433
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Chelsea played a 3 behind a main striker last season Melts and Mata was their best player

Why do you think he wouldn't work in a 4231 this season bud?

Macca,

Mata played well, but Chelsea didn't exactly challenge for the title last year. It allows certain individuals to shine, but it is detrimental to the team as a whole. Chelsea looked like a different team when they moved Luiz to midfield, as that gave them greater defensive stability. Up to then though, they didn't have the balance right between defence and attack. Most of the time in the PL, you get away with it due to the quality of the players, but it gets exposed straight away in the CL.

I remember that article and like most Wilson article it was well observed, but like you said it all depends on the personnel and as he said 'particularly if the opposing winger neglects his defensive work.'. Now as I have said in Nani we actually have a winger who is very good with defensive duties while Mata, Wilson himself described as 'diligent' in that aspect of his game. Those 2 are just as good if not better with defensive duties than anyone of Reus, Robben, Ribery, Di Maria, Ronaldo.

I personally think those 3 would offer the support needed to the full backs as well as Kagawa dropping deeper if need be.

One thing that has always concerned me slightly has been Carrick's mobility. I love the guy and think he has been brilliant for us but I have always wondered what it would be like to have a more mobile version of Carrick (like Bender at Dortmund). Of course either the Dortmund or Bayern midifeld pairing would be perfect for United with those 3 ahead but I also think in Carrick and (possibly) Fellaini there is enough cover.

To be honest I think what formation works best in the CL is overplayed. They're guidelines as to how the team lineup.

With and without the ball is more important. United wouldn't win the CL with Mata and that formation not because the formation would get exposed, but because we aren't good enough.

Simplistic, I know. But it's the best explanation.