Amateur hour.


Word for word the same thing I said.

Absolute ridiculous attempt at doing business this summer.

I'm looking forward to 2nd September so everyone can stop worrying about transfers and get on with worrying about football and supporting their team.

'I'm looking forward to 2nd September so everyone can stop worrying about transfers and get on with worrying about football and supporting their team.'

Is it not much the same? Do people not worry about transfers because it directly effects the football we play? I dont believe wanting resolution in the market, and being worried about how it's been handled, is representative of anyone not supporting their team.

Are you personally happy with how things have gone this summer?

Shushhh
Don't let the 'In Moyes We Trust' brigade see this article. They'll bully you on this site into pressuring to accept how we have the best squad in the league, how everything is fine & how Moyes is the best thing since sliced bread.
Anyways take a look at my latest article. Its almost the same.

Oh man, just read it, I've pretty much word for word stolen it, sorry!!!!

The Gareth Bale transfer holds the key formall transfers this summer, I think. If Madrid had bought him earlier then everyone would know which players they are willing to sell. But it seems that this has dragged on but Spurs have run around spending the money before they have even got it.

If they'd have bought him earlier then I think we could have had a go at buying Ronaldo or Modric. A big name signing would have taken a lot of pressure and focus of the manager.

I wish to know what are Woodwards credentials? Has he ever done any football negotiations in the past? Does he have any experience in this field?
We may have slated Gill a lot but at least he was a footballing person who knew what he did. This new guy doesn't even know whom we are chasing & how much to bid.

Eh? Gill was an executive for a holiday firm before moving to United. At least Woodward has been around football for eight years. I'm not sure what you expect from him yet. He hasn't got the contacts or influence Gill has, but no one does, it comes with time.

Don't be sorry Rage of Reaper, your article is how to present a reasoned debate about something, you make points and back them up. The Stretty one below was just a crap rant where he cherry picked which comments to respond to. As for your article I'll try and present a flip side to it without being insulting, but these will be just my opinion and I don't present them as fact.

1) If he didn't have any dealings with the team / squad and everyone was getting back from holiday and international leave then how could he make a decision on what areas he needed to strengthen? Of course he may of had some ideas but he's a new manager at the club and needed to see what he had first before committing to anything.

2. I am of the opinion that they must of received some encouragement from either Barcelona or Fabregas (or representative). On this point I don't think anyone will know who is right?

3. I agree with you mostly for this point, the only thing I can think of is that they were given such a convincing response regarding fabregas that they didn't want Fellani or perhaps Moyes had insider knowledge that suggested he wasn't worth that much? Personally I agree with you that they screwed this one up by thinking they could get him on the cheap.

4. Again without knowing what's going on behind closed doors I can only suggest that it could of been down to receiving no encouragement regarding his signing, perhaps that changed or perhaps with the failure to land other targets, Moyes wanted him as part of a different approach.

5. I agree, sell him if he wants to go. But not to Chelsea.

6. He's reacting to what has been said by Martinez and trying to turn the screw. The comments may be below the belt but he's trying to get the players. From what he said he talks to Bill Kenwright frequently so if anything is going to happen I'm sure it'll probably be through negotiations that way rather than any crap in the media.

7. I'm confused, how are we mid season? Only two games have been played.

I don't for one moment suggest that every one of your points aren't correct because they quite easily could be. But just thought i'd present the otherside of the coin because as I said on the other post, without knowing whats going on behind closed doors we really are completely ignorant to most of it.

Except Gill had a lot of contacts and Fergie of course by his side. Moyes & Woodward seems to be an horrible combination.
On one hand we have Woodward who doesn't have a clue as to how much to bid for a player and how to conclude business deals whilst on the other hand we have Moyes who I am pretty sure has very little knowledge about good players outside Britain (apart from the obvious ones like Cesc etc).
People claim that Moyes is a bundesliga connoisseur but I am yet to see any signs of it going by his signings. Plenty of good young players over there yet he chases his previous players. How many players did he bring from Germany whilst at Everton?
I am of the firm view that United just like City need a Director of Football especially when the biggest influencial names at the club SAF & Gill have gone.
A Director of Football will probably help concluding deals swiftly.
City hardly face any problems completing their deals as far as I remember.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

There is room for a reasonable take between "in Moyes we trust" and "Moyes is an amateur".

I'd advocate the following:


1) Deferring judgement about this window until it closes.
2) Excercising some caution regarding attribution of blame, since we don't know who authored the strategies. We don't even know how well Fergie and Gill handled the transition to the new team.
3) Bearing in mind that bringing in a new manager and chief exec at the start of the window wasn't ideal. They both have learning curves to negotiate but they will be in a better position in future when they have months of preparation behind them.
4) Have a little humility with regard to our own opinions. We are not professionals, would fail to run an FC, and have second hand tabloid info with which to judge events. It's worth being open to the possibility that the men running the club have made their decisions so fat based on applying a higher level of expertise to assess fat more thorough information.

This is not "trusting in Moyes". It is applying intellectual caution.

W&R Good shout, It has put a big strain on the club changing both CEO and manager at the same time. Depends what a director of football would do, if the manager said "get me these" players and that was his job then great, but if the director choose the players and told the manager which ones he was buying then I think it would be a terrible idea.

moyes has said midfield was the area that needed strenghtening right from the start. Spurs, city, chelsea and even liverpool have been trying or doing their business whereas utd and arsenal have been diken around imo.

1) If he didn't have any dealings with the team / squad and everyone was getting back from holiday and international leave then how could he make a decision on what areas he needed to strengthen? Of course he may of had some ideas but he's a new manager at the club and needed to see what he had first before committing to anything.

On the flip side of that, as a seasoned manager, with a great relationship with SAF, and years of playing against us, with a job of analysing weaknesses and strengths, I'd perhaps argue that he should have walked in with a very clear idea, but an open view to be surprised by fringe/youth players. Regardless, I suppose it tells in the fact that 2 months later he's openly admitting the areas he feels we need strengthening are the areas we've known for a while about!

2. I am of the opinion that they must of received some encouragement from either Barcelona or Fabregas (or representative). On this point I don't think anyone will know who is right?

Agree, but cant help that it was always ending the way it did, and perhaps it served as more of a showing to fans that we a) had the money, and b) were prepared to go after world class talent, as a way to appease us?

5. I agree, sell him if he wants to go. But not to Chelsea.

I'm at the point now where I'm not sure if keeping him would be more damaging to us then letting him go to Chelsea. 50/50 for me. But agree, getting rid over seas would be the ideal.

6. He's reacting to what has been said by Martinez and trying to turn the screw. The comments may be below the belt but he's trying to get the players. From what he said he talks to Bill Kenwright frequently so if anything is going to happen I'm sure it'll probably be through negotiations that way rather than any crap in the media.

Perhaps yes. But cant imagine Kenwright would have liked to have seen those comments in the public eye. Somewhat belittles any relationship the 2 have.

7. I'm confused, how are we mid season? Only two games have been played.

Sorry, phrasing! Mid season, in the midst of a season, as in no longer not in A season, haha. I didnt make that part clear!

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1) Deferring judgement about this window until it closes.

I dont believe that, I think this window is really a 'sum of all parts' rather than the end result. I'd say not getting new players in before a competitive game is already a failing of the club.


2) Excercising some caution regarding attribution of blame, since we don't know who authored the strategies. We don't even know how well Fergie and Gill handled the transition to the new team.


Agreed, we can only go on the interviews etc. However, theres a fine line between your arguement there, and simply letting those involved 'off the hook' for lax attitude towards the window?


3) Bearing in mind that bringing in a new manager and chief exec at the start of the window wasn't ideal. They both have learning curves to negotiate but they will be in a better position in future when they have months of preparation behind them.

Again, I agree, I certainly wouldnt expect this next summer, however, I'd argue that they've been brought in to do a job, and they arent doing it very well. There's a teething period, but this wasnt an unknown to either guy, Moyes has years of experience in the transfer window, and Woodward by accounts was shadowing Gill for months.


4) Have a little humility with regard to our own opinions. We are not professionals, would fail to run an FC, and have second hand tabloid info with which to judge events. It's worth being open to the possibility that the men running the club have made their decisions so fat based on applying a higher level of expertise to assess fat more thorough information.

Well shucks, lets take that with a pinch of salt eh, otherwise this site would close down!

I'm waiting til 3rd sept to make judgement. Anyway, winning games is more important than transfers. Moyes so far has won a trophy and won very well at a very difficult place. If united win tomorrow it's a fantastic start, so please wait before making judgements as above has pointed out......no one has a clue what's going on behind the scenes. Plus gill was plain useless at times and more worried about filling his pockets!

I understood ffp to be based on the clubs turnover or ability to make a profit. United are in debt but do not make an annual loss so ffp shouldn't have a baring on our transfer budget? I may be wrong though? Any one know if an has happened with the glazers othe franchises or in the states that may have had an economic effect on the glazers and therefore the amounts they may sanction or make available for bids

This summer was always going to be tough. New manager, new staff, the Rooney issue (and Bale, Suarez issues are holding up the conveyor belt).

Some things could probably have been done better, but the fact that we are trying to improve the midfield is a good sign.

If Sept 2nd comes and we have no signings, then i'll be moaning with the rest. Until then, I will wait wand watch.

For all we know, SAF/Gill might have used the same lowball approach... But because SAF held such power and respect, the selling club weren't so quick to make the bids public or use terms like "Derisory".

I'm sure the press have a hand in all this too, using leading questions to try and antagonise the situation. Martinez, in particular, seems to being played like a puppet to get the required headlines.

comment by Stretty - #Stuckwithhim (U3123)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
Amateur hour.


Word for word the same thing I said.

Absolute ridiculous attempt at doing business this summer.

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how have people not haven't realised this guy is a wum

Bottom line utd have one of the hardest opening set of fixtures they have had in a long time and are facing one of their main title rivals monday night with the prospect of 40 year old ryan giggs playing from the start.....

He's a pillock more like it combo!

A club can only have 40% debt, of their total turnover,over the next 3 years. I don't know if that affects Utd or not.

Roberto Martinez is showing his midtable mentality by moaning and groaning over our bids. I'd say Moyes should act swiftly and plot to unsettle the duo by going to the media time and again just like Mourinho is doing with Rooney & Barcelona did over Cesc.
Its no use acting gentlemanly now that their club are publicly insulting us.
Use all the dirty tricks in the book to get the two of them.

Use all the dirty tricks in the book to get the two of them.
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We don't need to.... Just offer a reasonable amount and they will come. The low ball bid has already unsettled the players.

Moyes knows it, Everton know it and Martinez know it. They will be UTD players by Sept 2nd.

Use all the dirty tricks in the book to get the two of them.

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or maybe they should have put a proper bid in for the 2 players initially.