some good points raised dude....The academy is important...we may not reap those benefits for some time tho, that said however, we only need a couple of very good prospects to make it worthwhile..others can be sold off to keep it running ala Crewe
we do need to go up this season and for me any less will be deemed a failiure and possibly Jacket out and another year wasted
the Championship is a hard league to get out of but back to backs are possible (Norwich,Southampton,Reading?) Yes it may come too much too soon but I wouldn't not accept promotion to the prem for fear of being relegated again
Some good thoughts Floyd and you are right that generally people want jam today not tomorrow. And because of that it is difficult for a club and its manager to set off down a long term plan because as we have seen many times, the manager tends to get shown the door if the short term targets are not being met. And lets not pretend the supporters as well as the media are not part of that pressure. We see on this forum that most defeats are greeted by an analysiis of whats going wrong and most wins seem to be referred to as the best performance of the season. Neither are as important as whether we are on track to meet our seasonal targets.
So like it or not the short term is at longest half a season and the long term in football is no more than three seasons and probably as short as two.
With regards to the academy then we cant get away from the fact that the leap from the U21s to a League One team is a lot smaller than the leap to a Premier League team. So its no surprise at all that we are seeing more kids getting a chance this season compared to recent years. And the problem of developing English youth into top class players that can play in the Premier League is a problem of modern football not just of Wolves.
But what we have seen from Southampton and Swansea in particular is that if you develop a young team and a style of play while you are in the lower division then develop that as the team goes up the league ladder then you can arrive in the Premier League with a team that can flourish, even though it will certainly need some quality adding to it through the transfer market.
A lot of people on here criticised our investment in our academy as a 'Bob The Builder' exercise because it was a wider development that included the local college and some new houses. In reality it was the finest piece of work Steve Morgan has done for the club and it is a fabulous achievement even now that our U21s are still able to compete with the richest teams in the country and the U18s are also doing well. And the facilities being developed will help continue that trend.
And we are now possibly only half a season away from having an academy grown spine to our first team in Ikeme, Batth, Price and McAlinden.
As for progressing through the Championship I would be surprised if we were good enough to get promoted next season, if we get there. But if we do get a chance to go up I would grab it with both hands. That might mean we do a year or two of bouncing up and down before we are able to consolidate in the top flight. But lets not kid ourselves what a massive advantage Premier League parachute money is in the Championship. Ours runs out soon so another season in the Premier League to top that up would be a massive help to the club even if we got relegated.
I think Wolves fans are extremely patient, and certainly were in the 19 year exile before Jones got the club back to the top division.
The academy is important so that we can attract young prospects, but as you say, there should be a balance between bringing in from outside players that will fit and enhance the squad, and those we develop ourselves.
I'm afraid I don't think any football fans are patient, that includes us
Albion have a good academy but could not keep hold of their best prospect. He was snaffled by Chelsea for an absolute pittance.
Clubs below the Power Six are merely breeding and testing grounds.
In the case if Walcott, bale, oxlade chamberlain though this hasn't been a bad thing for Southampton. It also I'd suggest make recruitment into the academy easier.
And Bridge
And Bale
Two others are set to leave - one this month for £32m.
Nurtured from eggs to the brink of manhood, before being bought for a fortune. This is the only purpose of so-called academies, despite the romantic picture that is put forth by dreamers.
If we're promoted this year and again next, that's it... no choice, no can we leave it this year please and go up next year.
And as DJ says, it's well worthwhile going up if only to get the parachute payments.
But what we have seen from Southampton and Swansea in particular is that if you develop a young team and a style of play while you are in the lower division then develop that as the team goes up the league ladder then you can arrive in the Premier League with a team that can flourish, even though it will certainly need some quality adding to it through the transfer market.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This more than anything else.
Selling on good prospects for a club of our stature is a must, it is all very well not wanting to be a selling club, but taking 15 million for one player which results in strengthening a team in 3 areas is just common sense, you have to make deals at the optimum time, lto a lesser degree, like we should have with Sako a few months back.
Hopefully a few years from now we will have a flourishing academy, all the signs seem to point to that, we have brought in some top prospects if you believe the hype.
But lower food chain strengthening is merely chasing after the wind in a straight jacket.
Easy to say that about Sako now on the back of Henry and Jacobs performances but at the time he was our most important player and it would have been highly damaging to our season to lose him.
Hats off to board for turning sown quick buck.
I just think when you are offered a top price you need to take it.
I think Sakos overall contribution is weak, though i appreciate his goals and assists alleviate that.
As tats has said before, is it better to have a constant 7 out of 10, or a 9 out of 10 for ten minutes and 5 out of 10 the rest of the time.
Consistency gets my vote.
As I said at the time about Sako if we sold him we would be moaning that we don't have a match winner because of his goals and assists. Since he has been out of the team we have struggled for goals and our league position has got worse.
Henry's form has deteriorated and Jacobs has yet to show he can deliver the decisive final ball.
I like Henry and Jacobs and they can help us get out of this division. But there is a reason we got them both for a couple of hundred thousand and there is a reason we got an offer of a couple of million for Sako
How many games has sako missed?
I honestly have no idea over Xmas, I thought we had won each time he was missing.
In simple terms, if it was not for Sako we would not be in the league position we are now in.
Only since the arrival of Henry and Jacobs has it looked like a viable option to sell Sako and as lizardburns says, the board did the right thing to keep him at that time.
Sako may not sparkle for 90 minutes every game but he is still a match winner and I for one hope we keep him until we get back to the top flight, however long that is.
I am surprised jackett has moved on from having griffiths, doyle and sako as regulars. We were looking promotion certainties at the end of november when he changed things and having got only two wins from 9 games, its not a change thats worked yet, and our current form is mid table.
Hopefully we will get promoted anyway but i think all three of those would be important to us in the championship too and i am yet to be convinced the players replacing them, or those we are being linked with, will do well at that level.
Those two back to back defeats to Peterborough and MK Dons, the start of the slide, we did in fact start with Doyle, Sako and Griffiths.
Doyle and Sako started against Rotherham.... 3-3
none started against Crewe.....won 2-0
only Sako against orient.......drew 1-1 with a good performance
Sako and Doyle against Tranmere.....drew 1-1
Sako and Doyle against gills.......lost 1-0
Griffiths against PNE......won 2-0 with a good display.
So it has only been 6 games with changes, and some of our best displays of the season apparently, and as i posted the other day, our last 5 games we have outshot the opposition 82-32, a season high for a 5 game spell.
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Balancing the present and the future
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posted on 22/1/14
some good points raised dude....The academy is important...we may not reap those benefits for some time tho, that said however, we only need a couple of very good prospects to make it worthwhile..others can be sold off to keep it running ala Crewe
we do need to go up this season and for me any less will be deemed a failiure and possibly Jacket out and another year wasted
the Championship is a hard league to get out of but back to backs are possible (Norwich,Southampton,Reading?) Yes it may come too much too soon but I wouldn't not accept promotion to the prem for fear of being relegated again
posted on 22/1/14
Some good thoughts Floyd and you are right that generally people want jam today not tomorrow. And because of that it is difficult for a club and its manager to set off down a long term plan because as we have seen many times, the manager tends to get shown the door if the short term targets are not being met. And lets not pretend the supporters as well as the media are not part of that pressure. We see on this forum that most defeats are greeted by an analysiis of whats going wrong and most wins seem to be referred to as the best performance of the season. Neither are as important as whether we are on track to meet our seasonal targets.
So like it or not the short term is at longest half a season and the long term in football is no more than three seasons and probably as short as two.
With regards to the academy then we cant get away from the fact that the leap from the U21s to a League One team is a lot smaller than the leap to a Premier League team. So its no surprise at all that we are seeing more kids getting a chance this season compared to recent years. And the problem of developing English youth into top class players that can play in the Premier League is a problem of modern football not just of Wolves.
But what we have seen from Southampton and Swansea in particular is that if you develop a young team and a style of play while you are in the lower division then develop that as the team goes up the league ladder then you can arrive in the Premier League with a team that can flourish, even though it will certainly need some quality adding to it through the transfer market.
A lot of people on here criticised our investment in our academy as a 'Bob The Builder' exercise because it was a wider development that included the local college and some new houses. In reality it was the finest piece of work Steve Morgan has done for the club and it is a fabulous achievement even now that our U21s are still able to compete with the richest teams in the country and the U18s are also doing well. And the facilities being developed will help continue that trend.
And we are now possibly only half a season away from having an academy grown spine to our first team in Ikeme, Batth, Price and McAlinden.
As for progressing through the Championship I would be surprised if we were good enough to get promoted next season, if we get there. But if we do get a chance to go up I would grab it with both hands. That might mean we do a year or two of bouncing up and down before we are able to consolidate in the top flight. But lets not kid ourselves what a massive advantage Premier League parachute money is in the Championship. Ours runs out soon so another season in the Premier League to top that up would be a massive help to the club even if we got relegated.
posted on 22/1/14
I think Wolves fans are extremely patient, and certainly were in the 19 year exile before Jones got the club back to the top division.
The academy is important so that we can attract young prospects, but as you say, there should be a balance between bringing in from outside players that will fit and enhance the squad, and those we develop ourselves.
posted on 22/1/14
I'm afraid I don't think any football fans are patient, that includes us
posted on 22/1/14
Albion have a good academy but could not keep hold of their best prospect. He was snaffled by Chelsea for an absolute pittance.
Clubs below the Power Six are merely breeding and testing grounds.
posted on 22/1/14
In the case if Walcott, bale, oxlade chamberlain though this hasn't been a bad thing for Southampton. It also I'd suggest make recruitment into the academy easier.
posted on 22/1/14
And Bridge
And Bale
Two others are set to leave - one this month for £32m.
Nurtured from eggs to the brink of manhood, before being bought for a fortune. This is the only purpose of so-called academies, despite the romantic picture that is put forth by dreamers.
posted on 22/1/14
If we're promoted this year and again next, that's it... no choice, no can we leave it this year please and go up next year.
And as DJ says, it's well worthwhile going up if only to get the parachute payments.
posted on 22/1/14
But what we have seen from Southampton and Swansea in particular is that if you develop a young team and a style of play while you are in the lower division then develop that as the team goes up the league ladder then you can arrive in the Premier League with a team that can flourish, even though it will certainly need some quality adding to it through the transfer market.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This more than anything else.
Selling on good prospects for a club of our stature is a must, it is all very well not wanting to be a selling club, but taking 15 million for one player which results in strengthening a team in 3 areas is just common sense, you have to make deals at the optimum time, lto a lesser degree, like we should have with Sako a few months back.
Hopefully a few years from now we will have a flourishing academy, all the signs seem to point to that, we have brought in some top prospects if you believe the hype.
posted on 22/1/14
But lower food chain strengthening is merely chasing after the wind in a straight jacket.
posted on 22/1/14
Was that a pun
posted on 22/1/14
Easy to say that about Sako now on the back of Henry and Jacobs performances but at the time he was our most important player and it would have been highly damaging to our season to lose him.
Hats off to board for turning sown quick buck.
posted on 22/1/14
I just think when you are offered a top price you need to take it.
I think Sakos overall contribution is weak, though i appreciate his goals and assists alleviate that.
As tats has said before, is it better to have a constant 7 out of 10, or a 9 out of 10 for ten minutes and 5 out of 10 the rest of the time.
Consistency gets my vote.
posted on 22/1/14
As I said at the time about Sako if we sold him we would be moaning that we don't have a match winner because of his goals and assists. Since he has been out of the team we have struggled for goals and our league position has got worse.
Henry's form has deteriorated and Jacobs has yet to show he can deliver the decisive final ball.
I like Henry and Jacobs and they can help us get out of this division. But there is a reason we got them both for a couple of hundred thousand and there is a reason we got an offer of a couple of million for Sako
posted on 22/1/14
How many games has sako missed?
I honestly have no idea over Xmas, I thought we had won each time he was missing.
posted on 22/1/14
In simple terms, if it was not for Sako we would not be in the league position we are now in.
Only since the arrival of Henry and Jacobs has it looked like a viable option to sell Sako and as lizardburns says, the board did the right thing to keep him at that time.
Sako may not sparkle for 90 minutes every game but he is still a match winner and I for one hope we keep him until we get back to the top flight, however long that is.
posted on 23/1/14
I am surprised jackett has moved on from having griffiths, doyle and sako as regulars. We were looking promotion certainties at the end of november when he changed things and having got only two wins from 9 games, its not a change thats worked yet, and our current form is mid table.
Hopefully we will get promoted anyway but i think all three of those would be important to us in the championship too and i am yet to be convinced the players replacing them, or those we are being linked with, will do well at that level.
posted on 23/1/14
Those two back to back defeats to Peterborough and MK Dons, the start of the slide, we did in fact start with Doyle, Sako and Griffiths.
Doyle and Sako started against Rotherham.... 3-3
none started against Crewe.....won 2-0
only Sako against orient.......drew 1-1 with a good performance
Sako and Doyle against Tranmere.....drew 1-1
Sako and Doyle against gills.......lost 1-0
Griffiths against PNE......won 2-0 with a good display.
So it has only been 6 games with changes, and some of our best displays of the season apparently, and as i posted the other day, our last 5 games we have outshot the opposition 82-32, a season high for a 5 game spell.
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