Yep, not convinced by this Bayern team.

They are, obviously, an excellent team but think Heynkes Bayern of last season was better, far better.

Yeah very boring team. However when utd scored they woke up and really took the game. Shows that if they want to, they can be as devastating as any one our there.

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They've wobbled a bit haven't they? Real only just held on and the pressure seems off Chelsea.

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Bayern are a great team but they showed manu too much respect until they went behind and were forced to attack more.

Clubs in Europe haven't realised how far manu have declined yet.

By the time they get back in Europe again (if ever) then they'll be shown much less respect.

Clubs in Europe haven't realised how far manu have declined yet.
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Very true.

Why do Bayern seem to scuff nearly every shot they have? It was the same against Chelsea in 2012.

Atletico Madrid should be the official poster child for all Euro supporters who want clubs to succeed merely by being well-run at all levels, rather than because of the dosh they have.

Bayern were beatable last night. They looked frail at the back in a way that the top Premier League sides rarely do. Several of our long balls down the middle seemed to really unsettle them.

Has pep ever managed a properly good defence btw?

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comment by The RDBD (demoted to supporting the team managed by Pep Guardiola) (U1062)
posted 3 minutes ago
Atletico Madrid should be the official poster child for all Euro supporters who want clubs to succeed merely by being well-run at all levels, rather than because of the dosh they have.
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Are they well-run at all levels? They have to sell their best players every season. I know they have had some rather shady people in charge in the past (Gil most blatantly) and they are always skint.

Do you think Simeone could be just that damn good?

"Ath Madrid have had their best players taken over the last 10 years."

The Deloitte "money league" shows you why (shocking as it is) .
Like so many clubs, they can only retain their key players by achieving on-pitch success. This season they may well end up doing that big-time.

"Do you think Simeone could be just that damn good?"

All levels = academy + scouts + squad + manager + board.
This season it appears to all be coming together perfectly.

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What they have done impressively is buy wc striker after wc striker.

So have Liverpool annoyingly

They are saying they can't afford the 6m euros for Courtois to play if they meet Chelsea. Maybe gamesmanship?

Maybe I'm going back too far but Atletico was always a bit of a basketcase.

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"They are saying they can't afford the 6m euros for Courtois to play if they meet Chelsea. Maybe gamesmanship?"

If it was Levy, you would end up letting him play and PAY 6m for the privilege.

Atletico are linked with Icardi, labelled the next Messi.
But so are we, he will be another nearly player.

It seems a bit like we are doing that anyway. If he ain't in goal for Chelsea on August the whatever and Lukaku is playing for you, I'm gonna puke blood.

I really fancy Atleti to go on and win it.

The notion they are well run is laughable, though. It's precisely because they've not been well run that they've found themselves in the shiite financially.

They've been making moves to remedy this over the last couple of years, and having a fantastic coach in Simeone has helped them compete while spending hasn't been what it could have been, but they are still in a lot of debt and it may take a while for them to get out of it - they need to really keep hold of Simeone to do get this done quicker.

"They've been making moves to remedy this over the last couple of years"

ie become well-run.
Well, La Liga / CL success should fill the coffers a little bit.

I still wouldn't go as far as saying they are well run, they just have a brilliant manager.

We'll see how well run they are when he leaves. Agree about the success part filling the coffers. Especially if they can sustain CL qualification - which has been one of their biggest problems over the years.

Hopefully Simeone stays there and can continue challenging the big two. I fear it will fall apart when he leaves and they'll be back to where they were before he came in - unless they can find another similarly brilliant manager.

Sorting the finances will help lessen (but not totally prevent) players being asset-stripped from them. On pitch success equally so.

We shall see.