"Would we have taken this last year"
See this so much, can't understand the relevance.
Would you have taken this in 2004? 05? How about 08?
comment by Chris H - Little bit hate Giroud (U15205)
posted 57 seconds ago
"Would we have taken this last year"
See this so much, can't understand the relevance.
Would you have taken this in 2004? 05? How about 08?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because ultimately we'd got new sponsorship deals.
Didn't have to sell any of our players.
The reason why the players were celebrating was because they also saw the long term benefits.
But "would you have taken this as last year" is not relevant to what is happening now.
We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff.
Instead we didn't (please don't mention Kallstrom) and now will finish fourth. Failure.
Got robbed of many trophies this year due to injuries and officials.
comment by Chris H - Little bit hate Giroud (U15205)
posted 1 minute ago
But "would you have taken this as last year" is not relevant to what is happening now.
We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff.
Instead we didn't (please don't mention Kallstrom) and now will finish fourth. Failure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mistake. Not failure.
Now had Rambo come back in January like he was scheduled too, like Wenger though there would have been no need to buy.
I would have taken 3rd to be honest. 4rth is a tad disappointing
"Mistake. Not failure."
A mistake (or multiple, in our case) leads to failure, same as in every walk of life.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Greatteamswinit4times I'm dogmatic (U6008)
posted 4 minutes ago
So, out of interest, if you finish fourth next season, is that a failure. What is the cut off point for it being an ok season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me I prefer to look at the points tally. Ultimately we should end up with 79 points. We won the title with less points than that in 98.
Obviously we need to kick on. Got to invest. We will be contenders next season.
As Chris says, should have capitalised in January.
Come on Fab, Ramsey injury or no Ramsey injury, everyone knew we needed to strengthen in January regardless.
comment by Fabtastic - #ABG (U6685)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Chris H - Little bit hate Giroud (U15205)
posted 1 minute ago
But "would you have taken this as last year" is not relevant to what is happening now.
We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff.
Instead we didn't (please don't mention Kallstrom) and now will finish fourth. Failure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mistake. Not failure.
Now had Rambo come back in January like he was scheduled too, like Wenger though there would have been no need to buy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They can't be called mistakes any more. To call them mistakes means they were one-time decisions, but they weren't. Wenger is so determined to do things his own way that he refuses to acknowledge his failures, which is why he keeps making these ridiculous decisions over and over.
Before the start of the season literally nobody expected us to win the title. fans were just saying they want to see 'progress'... we smashed our transfer record, cut the gap to the top of the league by a lot of points and will probably win our first trophy in 9 years... and ironically the fans who were saying they just wanted to see 'progress' are the ones who moan the most about our current situation. the moral of the story is moaners will always moan about something.
It's funny how people say 'after Villa on opening day we would have taken this' as if what happened at the start of the season was not our own doing at all.
we would have taken it both before or after Villa anyway
Before the start of the season literally nobody expected us to win the title. fans were just saying they want to see 'progress'... we smashed our transfer record, cut the gap to the top of the league by a lot of points and will probably win our first trophy in 9 years... and ironically the fans who were saying they just wanted to see 'progress' are the ones who moan the most about our current situation. the moral of the story is moaners will always moan about something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
8bit, I do get what you mean, but I guess it boils down to definition of 'progress'.
And for me, 'progress' would have been indicated by some sign that there was a plan to what Wenger was doing... but there wasn't. Everything he has done this season has been a gamble.
Yes, we did smash our transfer record... but that was entirely down to chance. There is no way we'd have known, going into the last few days of the window, that Ozil would be available. And if we hadn't signed him, imagine where we would have ended up. There was nothing remotely calculated about it.
Yes, we've managed to cut down the league gap significantly... but is that our progress, or the fact that every other club has had a transitional season? Will Wenger be able to have another 'typical Wenger window' and manage this kind of season again, when every other club will go out and strengthen? If United come back stronger, will we still be able to hold them off?
And yes, we were top for the large part... but we never gave the impression that we truly belonged there. We wondered at the time why so many pundits and media outlets were seemingly ignoring our position at the summit - but now, looking back, it's clear that from the outside looking in, we didn't really look like contenders. We actually looked like we were as surprised as anybody, and that we were just happy to be there. There's a good reason why no Arsenal player made the Team of the Season, despite the length of time we were top.
And this comes back to what I said about planning. With the state that the other sides were in this year, everything was perfectly aligned for an underdog to dart in and go straight for the jugular - but Wenger still couldn't keep it together. He banked too much on Ramsey staying fit for a whole season (which he never has), Ozil hitting the ground running and not losing form (which is unfeasible for a new player to this league) and Giroud doing the job of both first-choice and back-up (which destroyed his fitness and, subsequently, his confidence). Even Liverpool, who arguably only have two players that I would take on at Arsenal, managed to stay in the mix longer than we did, while we have managed to take the scenic route back to our regular spot. It used to be that Wenger was thinking two seasons ahead, in terms of who he was bringing in and who he was shipping out - now, I don't even think he knows what he's doing from the start of the window to the end.
Wenger probably knew Real would sell some players if they bought Bale, he gambled but it paid off because we signed Ozil... nothing risked nothing gained.
Yes, we've managed to cut down the league gap significantly... but is that our progress, or the fact that every other club has had a transitional season?
------
There could be 6 teams finishing with more than 70 points which is pretty amazing! I think 70 points would guarantee top 4 in almost much every Premier League season so the top teams are doing better than usualthis year... 86 points to win the title is quite high as well. If we win the last two games we'll have out highest points total since 07/08 so it's us making progress rather than other teams in transation.
At the end of the day, we're 7 points behind the leaders having missed Ramsey, Ozil, Walcott, Wilshere all at the same time and we're about to win our first trophy in 9 years... it's the same as the teams around Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Ramires.... Gerrard, Sterling, Henderson, Coutinho... Navas, Silva, Toure, Fernandino. Keeping our players fit is the most important thing for next season
In general I do think we've progressed this season, just maybe a little less than we all hoped given how great the first few months of the season were. If all goes to plan we'll end the season on 79 points (which is very respectable and very high for 4th place, most seasons that would be third place minimum but this season has been crazy with 3 teams likely to finish on 80+) and finally end that trophy drought.
Obviously our collapsing in the second half of the season was disappointing, as was the failure to strengthen in January, but this season has still been markedly better than we've had for a while. To be honest I think whether it will come down as a success will actually depend on what happens this summer/next season - if we strengthen and push on to better things next year then I think we can say this season represented reasonable progress. If, however, Wenger slips into his old ways and we fall off the pace again then we may well look back on it as a missed opportunity.
You guys are so contradictory. We have several articles praising Ramsey. A player who only Wenger believed in and wanted to give a chance to step up and become world class. Then a few articles later we have people saying we should have spent massive in January. The first question is who? We know the arsenal philosophy now, we only sign players who we think are top top quality not your Berbatovs etc. So who else should we have bought in Jan? The second question is why is it always your mentality to want to sign sign sign all the time. You are so steeped in this mentality most of you thought spurs would be title challengers because they bought so many players. Even after that embarrassment I still see people saying we need 7 players in the summer etc.
If there was a player we could have got to help is score goals in January then fair play but I can't really think of many to be honest. Wenger had a choice in Jan. Either put faith in what he had or gamble with a new signing that wasn't world class. Even I would have leaned towards a signing however it is easy to see Wengers logic and belief in his philosophy which has led to your Aaron Ramsey therefore he should not be derided for putting faith in his players when it has worked so often.
"We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff. "
-----------------------------------
Wait, I always laugh when I see this ridiculous statement. Who exactly in the class of those two players were were to sign to replace them since you seem to have this all figured out. By the way, they have to be better than Chamberlain, Poldi and Santi.
"Player X is injured, let's go out and buy another one to replace him. Easy"
The biggest mistake was to go into the season without singing another CF. The January market is just, well the January market.
And to answer the OP, I would have been happy but looking at the way our rivals have been inconsistent we really had a chance to win the league this year.
We have a chance next year too. Our first team on form are a match for anyone. We have a great style of football which has served us well. We just need to learn to play defensively against the big teams away like we did against dortmund. The "we play the same way every game" philosophy is outdated, teams are too dangerous now at thier own ground. Just look at the top fours home record this season. We just need to kick on in summer and we can be really optimistic. We are not far off now.
I think getting in a so called 'sub par striker' in January would have been acceptable if you're saying we couldn't have got a WC one, we've literally been playing Giroud every game and it's not helping him confidence wise or fitness wise. A 'stop gap', even like Henry was in 2012 on loan, would have sufficed to be honest.
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Would you have took this outcome last year?
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posted on 29/4/14
"Would we have taken this last year"
See this so much, can't understand the relevance.
Would you have taken this in 2004? 05? How about 08?
posted on 29/4/14
comment by Chris H - Little bit hate Giroud (U15205)
posted 57 seconds ago
"Would we have taken this last year"
See this so much, can't understand the relevance.
Would you have taken this in 2004? 05? How about 08?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because ultimately we'd got new sponsorship deals.
Didn't have to sell any of our players.
The reason why the players were celebrating was because they also saw the long term benefits.
posted on 29/4/14
But "would you have taken this as last year" is not relevant to what is happening now.
We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff.
Instead we didn't (please don't mention Kallstrom) and now will finish fourth. Failure.
posted on 29/4/14
Got robbed of many trophies this year due to injuries and officials.
posted on 29/4/14
comment by Chris H - Little bit hate Giroud (U15205)
posted 1 minute ago
But "would you have taken this as last year" is not relevant to what is happening now.
We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff.
Instead we didn't (please don't mention Kallstrom) and now will finish fourth. Failure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mistake. Not failure.
Now had Rambo come back in January like he was scheduled too, like Wenger though there would have been no need to buy.
posted on 29/4/14
I would have taken 3rd to be honest. 4rth is a tad disappointing
posted on 29/4/14
"Mistake. Not failure."
A mistake (or multiple, in our case) leads to failure, same as in every walk of life.
posted on 29/4/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/4/14
comment by Greatteamswinit4times I'm dogmatic (U6008)
posted 4 minutes ago
So, out of interest, if you finish fourth next season, is that a failure. What is the cut off point for it being an ok season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me I prefer to look at the points tally. Ultimately we should end up with 79 points. We won the title with less points than that in 98.
Obviously we need to kick on. Got to invest. We will be contenders next season.
posted on 29/4/14
As Chris says, should have capitalised in January.
Come on Fab, Ramsey injury or no Ramsey injury, everyone knew we needed to strengthen in January regardless.
posted on 29/4/14
comment by Fabtastic - #ABG (U6685)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Chris H - Little bit hate Giroud (U15205)
posted 1 minute ago
But "would you have taken this as last year" is not relevant to what is happening now.
We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff.
Instead we didn't (please don't mention Kallstrom) and now will finish fourth. Failure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mistake. Not failure.
Now had Rambo come back in January like he was scheduled too, like Wenger though there would have been no need to buy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They can't be called mistakes any more. To call them mistakes means they were one-time decisions, but they weren't. Wenger is so determined to do things his own way that he refuses to acknowledge his failures, which is why he keeps making these ridiculous decisions over and over.
posted on 29/4/14
Before the start of the season literally nobody expected us to win the title. fans were just saying they want to see 'progress'... we smashed our transfer record, cut the gap to the top of the league by a lot of points and will probably win our first trophy in 9 years... and ironically the fans who were saying they just wanted to see 'progress' are the ones who moan the most about our current situation. the moral of the story is moaners will always moan about something.
posted on 29/4/14
It's funny how people say 'after Villa on opening day we would have taken this' as if what happened at the start of the season was not our own doing at all.
posted on 29/4/14
we would have taken it both before or after Villa anyway
posted on 29/4/14
Before the start of the season literally nobody expected us to win the title. fans were just saying they want to see 'progress'... we smashed our transfer record, cut the gap to the top of the league by a lot of points and will probably win our first trophy in 9 years... and ironically the fans who were saying they just wanted to see 'progress' are the ones who moan the most about our current situation. the moral of the story is moaners will always moan about something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
8bit, I do get what you mean, but I guess it boils down to definition of 'progress'.
And for me, 'progress' would have been indicated by some sign that there was a plan to what Wenger was doing... but there wasn't. Everything he has done this season has been a gamble.
Yes, we did smash our transfer record... but that was entirely down to chance. There is no way we'd have known, going into the last few days of the window, that Ozil would be available. And if we hadn't signed him, imagine where we would have ended up. There was nothing remotely calculated about it.
Yes, we've managed to cut down the league gap significantly... but is that our progress, or the fact that every other club has had a transitional season? Will Wenger be able to have another 'typical Wenger window' and manage this kind of season again, when every other club will go out and strengthen? If United come back stronger, will we still be able to hold them off?
And yes, we were top for the large part... but we never gave the impression that we truly belonged there. We wondered at the time why so many pundits and media outlets were seemingly ignoring our position at the summit - but now, looking back, it's clear that from the outside looking in, we didn't really look like contenders. We actually looked like we were as surprised as anybody, and that we were just happy to be there. There's a good reason why no Arsenal player made the Team of the Season, despite the length of time we were top.
And this comes back to what I said about planning. With the state that the other sides were in this year, everything was perfectly aligned for an underdog to dart in and go straight for the jugular - but Wenger still couldn't keep it together. He banked too much on Ramsey staying fit for a whole season (which he never has), Ozil hitting the ground running and not losing form (which is unfeasible for a new player to this league) and Giroud doing the job of both first-choice and back-up (which destroyed his fitness and, subsequently, his confidence). Even Liverpool, who arguably only have two players that I would take on at Arsenal, managed to stay in the mix longer than we did, while we have managed to take the scenic route back to our regular spot. It used to be that Wenger was thinking two seasons ahead, in terms of who he was bringing in and who he was shipping out - now, I don't even think he knows what he's doing from the start of the window to the end.
posted on 29/4/14
Wenger probably knew Real would sell some players if they bought Bale, he gambled but it paid off because we signed Ozil... nothing risked nothing gained.
Yes, we've managed to cut down the league gap significantly... but is that our progress, or the fact that every other club has had a transitional season?
------
There could be 6 teams finishing with more than 70 points which is pretty amazing! I think 70 points would guarantee top 4 in almost much every Premier League season so the top teams are doing better than usualthis year... 86 points to win the title is quite high as well. If we win the last two games we'll have out highest points total since 07/08 so it's us making progress rather than other teams in transation.
At the end of the day, we're 7 points behind the leaders having missed Ramsey, Ozil, Walcott, Wilshere all at the same time and we're about to win our first trophy in 9 years... it's the same as the teams around Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Ramires.... Gerrard, Sterling, Henderson, Coutinho... Navas, Silva, Toure, Fernandino. Keeping our players fit is the most important thing for next season
posted on 29/4/14
In general I do think we've progressed this season, just maybe a little less than we all hoped given how great the first few months of the season were. If all goes to plan we'll end the season on 79 points (which is very respectable and very high for 4th place, most seasons that would be third place minimum but this season has been crazy with 3 teams likely to finish on 80+) and finally end that trophy drought.
Obviously our collapsing in the second half of the season was disappointing, as was the failure to strengthen in January, but this season has still been markedly better than we've had for a while. To be honest I think whether it will come down as a success will actually depend on what happens this summer/next season - if we strengthen and push on to better things next year then I think we can say this season represented reasonable progress. If, however, Wenger slips into his old ways and we fall off the pace again then we may well look back on it as a missed opportunity.
posted on 29/4/14
You guys are so contradictory. We have several articles praising Ramsey. A player who only Wenger believed in and wanted to give a chance to step up and become world class. Then a few articles later we have people saying we should have spent massive in January. The first question is who? We know the arsenal philosophy now, we only sign players who we think are top top quality not your Berbatovs etc. So who else should we have bought in Jan? The second question is why is it always your mentality to want to sign sign sign all the time. You are so steeped in this mentality most of you thought spurs would be title challengers because they bought so many players. Even after that embarrassment I still see people saying we need 7 players in the summer etc.
If there was a player we could have got to help is score goals in January then fair play but I can't really think of many to be honest. Wenger had a choice in Jan. Either put faith in what he had or gamble with a new signing that wasn't world class. Even I would have leaned towards a signing however it is easy to see Wengers logic and belief in his philosophy which has led to your Aaron Ramsey therefore he should not be derided for putting faith in his players when it has worked so often.
posted on 29/4/14
"We were top in January, we lost Theo and Ramsey, and should of replaced them. Real toddler stuff. "
-----------------------------------
Wait, I always laugh when I see this ridiculous statement. Who exactly in the class of those two players were were to sign to replace them since you seem to have this all figured out. By the way, they have to be better than Chamberlain, Poldi and Santi.
posted on 29/4/14
"Player X is injured, let's go out and buy another one to replace him. Easy"
posted on 29/4/14
The biggest mistake was to go into the season without singing another CF. The January market is just, well the January market.
And to answer the OP, I would have been happy but looking at the way our rivals have been inconsistent we really had a chance to win the league this year.
posted on 29/4/14
We have a chance next year too. Our first team on form are a match for anyone. We have a great style of football which has served us well. We just need to learn to play defensively against the big teams away like we did against dortmund. The "we play the same way every game" philosophy is outdated, teams are too dangerous now at thier own ground. Just look at the top fours home record this season. We just need to kick on in summer and we can be really optimistic. We are not far off now.
posted on 29/4/14
I think getting in a so called 'sub par striker' in January would have been acceptable if you're saying we couldn't have got a WC one, we've literally been playing Giroud every game and it's not helping him confidence wise or fitness wise. A 'stop gap', even like Henry was in 2012 on loan, would have sufficed to be honest.
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