I would recommend every manager to go to Italy and learn the tactical side of the game.
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I'd suggest the Italian managers do the same.
Italian managers are very tactically aware even someone like Di Matteo even had the wherewithal to shut out superior teams to win us a CL.
I take it you don't watch Serie A very much then.
The defending is shiite.
Di Canio was the exception
And Montella, and Di Matteo, and Prandelli, and Mazzarri, and Allegri.
These managers aren't much cop when it comes to defending.
Conte is the only good one really and Capello.
Lippi is retiring.
The best team defensively I would say are Roma and they're managed by Garcia. The traditional Italian methods seem to be declining, such openness has made the league more exciting for me but the clubs seem to be underperforming in Europe as a result.
By the way, I thought Josè's Inter weren't as defensive as people made out. Of course there were ultra defensive performances, but there were also games Inter were good to watch.
Not just defensive tactics but overall, they focus on it much more in Italy and that is why when Jose left Ancellotti was the only one who really made me feel like we would move on from the Jose era.
This is more about Italian footballs approach that many in the PL are totally ignorant to. Also these guys play to win last couple of World Cups has proven that.
This is more about Italian footballs approach that many in the PL are totally ignorant to.
---
And evidently so are you.
Lippi and Capello are the only prominent Italian managers that still use and excel in that approach.
English teams have employed backs to the walls defending for years against superior teams in possession.
It's not something isolated to Italian managers and Mourinho.
Fergie is often cited as not being tactically astute yet we hold the record for going unbeaten away from home in Europe I believe, much of which is down to playing said tactics, but because he's Scottish and old school he's not tagged as a tactical genius.
comment by King of the Bridge (U1319)
posted 2 minutes ago
Not just defensive tactics but overall, they focus on it much more in Italy and that is why when Jose left Ancellotti was the only one who really made me feel like we would move on from the Jose era.
This is more about Italian footballs approach that many in the PL are totally ignorant to. Also these guys play to win last couple of World Cups has proven that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*2006 and 1982 have proven that
The Catennacio - which i imagine the callow OP refers to - has been on the wane.
I say the OP needs a primer on 'Italian Football: past and present' as he clearly isn't au fait with it.
I love Italian football and I know recently they play more expansive stuff. They still place high stock in defending and what do you think Italy will play like in the World Cup tiki taka like Spain obviously.
Benny is as defensive you can get.
He made Napoli worse
Rafa is another, Liverpool are heralding Rogers as the second coming but Liverpool were way more of a threatening team with Rafa. Why because he employed actual defending tactics.
Teams like Liverpool, City, Barca, Bayern arent as threatening to us as someone like Athletico why because they are able to defend.
Well they aren't doing a good job of it then if they place high stock in defending.
How were Liverpool a way more threatening team under Rafa? You realise had they been more attacking in some of their home games they'd have likely won the title?
They drew seven home games that season, despite beating us twice, but couldn't dispatch the smaller sides at home because Rafa was too cautious.
Rafa is another, Liverpool are heralding Rogers as the second coming but Liverpool were way more of a threatening team with Rafa. Why because he employed actual defending tactics
=================================================
I think that's a little bit of a myth. Over the course of Rafa's first 5 years in the CL, Liverpool were the top-scoring English team. (In 2008, I think they were top-scorers in the competition).
It was only in his final year, when Liverpool crashed out of the group stages with only 5 goals scored, that the other English teams caught up.
Liverpool had some high-scoring games in the CL during that period (6-2 vs. Leverkusen, 5-7 vs. Ancelotti's Chelsea, 5-3 vs. Arsenal, 5-0 vs. Real Madrid, etc).
Do you mean the tactics of trying to keep the ball out of play for as long as possible? Surely that is cheating rather than tactics and is the very definition of anti football.
So Wessie goals = attacking Footy ?
Chelsea 2 Liverpool 0
Chelsea attacked
So Wessie goals = attacking Footy ?
Chelsea 2 Liverpool 0
Chelsea attacked
===============================================
I didn’t say they played particularly attacking football, but it’s unlikely that a defensive team would be top-scorers over a period of 5 years. Benitez used completely different strategies to Mourinho...it wasn’t particularly attacking or defensive, it was all about the type of possession.
He was also willing to accept the downside of flair players like Mata and Luis Garcia...Jose is not.
But to be honest, I was joining in a debate with those of your fans who are capable of it. It's not your strong point, TCP....you're better off sticking to your smileys.
Even your most ardent fans don’t think you played an attacking game last weekend, the only issue is whether you should be criticised for it, and I didn’t do that.
I don't think Liverpool were very attacking 0
Liverpool were only the top scoring English club in two of Rafa Benitez's six seasons in charge in the Champions League.
Liverpool were only the top scoring English club in two of Rafa Benitez's six seasons in charge in the Champions League.
================================================
Well, that's quite a lot, for a manager reputed to be 'defensive'. But I never said top-scoring every year for 5 years...that would be some feat....I said top-scoring over the course of the whole 5 years.
His methods were about winning possession high up the pitch (using Duracell bunnies like Kuyt and Sissoko), and releasing the flair players early (like Torres and Luis Garcia)...as opposed to focussing on possession....he didn't value possession, he valued quick turnover.
It's quite a risky strategy....hence some high-scoring games (for both sides). I never thought of him as a defensive coach while he was at Liverpool....Houllier was more defensive.
Against Liverpool the genius was in that the full backs didn't even defend in the full back positions. We had Schurrle and Salah as wing backs and they did the full backs job. This means that if they were beaten the full back can just clean up.
----------------------
How is this genius?
The genius of how to win against the current leaders in their own ground with a second team. Liverpool have murdered full backs all year, with pace and trickery on the flanks.
So jose allowed this to happen all game knowing that if the wing back is beaten the full back is always behind him. If you watch there are many times you see Azipi and Cole start to rush out to the flanks to engage Stirling or Suarez but run back and hold their position. Had they of made that run Liverpool would exploit the space behind.
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Jose's Italian Masterclass!!
Page 1 of 2
posted on 30/4/14
I would recommend every manager to go to Italy and learn the tactical side of the game.
---
I'd suggest the Italian managers do the same.
posted on 30/4/14
Italian managers are very tactically aware even someone like Di Matteo even had the wherewithal to shut out superior teams to win us a CL.
posted on 30/4/14
I take it you don't watch Serie A very much then.
The defending is shiite.
posted on 30/4/14
Di Canio was the exception
posted on 30/4/14
And Montella, and Di Matteo, and Prandelli, and Mazzarri, and Allegri.
These managers aren't much cop when it comes to defending.
Conte is the only good one really and Capello.
Lippi is retiring.
posted on 30/4/14
Di Cani was kray kray.
posted on 30/4/14
The best team defensively I would say are Roma and they're managed by Garcia. The traditional Italian methods seem to be declining, such openness has made the league more exciting for me but the clubs seem to be underperforming in Europe as a result.
posted on 30/4/14
By the way, I thought Josè's Inter weren't as defensive as people made out. Of course there were ultra defensive performances, but there were also games Inter were good to watch.
posted on 30/4/14
Not just defensive tactics but overall, they focus on it much more in Italy and that is why when Jose left Ancellotti was the only one who really made me feel like we would move on from the Jose era.
This is more about Italian footballs approach that many in the PL are totally ignorant to. Also these guys play to win last couple of World Cups has proven that.
posted on 30/4/14
This is more about Italian footballs approach that many in the PL are totally ignorant to.
---
And evidently so are you.
Lippi and Capello are the only prominent Italian managers that still use and excel in that approach.
English teams have employed backs to the walls defending for years against superior teams in possession.
It's not something isolated to Italian managers and Mourinho.
Fergie is often cited as not being tactically astute yet we hold the record for going unbeaten away from home in Europe I believe, much of which is down to playing said tactics, but because he's Scottish and old school he's not tagged as a tactical genius.
posted on 30/4/14
comment by King of the Bridge (U1319)
posted 2 minutes ago
Not just defensive tactics but overall, they focus on it much more in Italy and that is why when Jose left Ancellotti was the only one who really made me feel like we would move on from the Jose era.
This is more about Italian footballs approach that many in the PL are totally ignorant to. Also these guys play to win last couple of World Cups has proven that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*2006 and 1982 have proven that
posted on 30/4/14
The Catennacio - which i imagine the callow OP refers to - has been on the wane.
I say the OP needs a primer on 'Italian Football: past and present' as he clearly isn't au fait with it.
posted on 30/4/14
I love Italian football and I know recently they play more expansive stuff. They still place high stock in defending and what do you think Italy will play like in the World Cup tiki taka like Spain obviously.
posted on 30/4/14
Benny is as defensive you can get.
He made Napoli worse
posted on 30/4/14
Rafa is another, Liverpool are heralding Rogers as the second coming but Liverpool were way more of a threatening team with Rafa. Why because he employed actual defending tactics.
Teams like Liverpool, City, Barca, Bayern arent as threatening to us as someone like Athletico why because they are able to defend.
posted on 30/4/14
Well they aren't doing a good job of it then if they place high stock in defending.
How were Liverpool a way more threatening team under Rafa? You realise had they been more attacking in some of their home games they'd have likely won the title?
They drew seven home games that season, despite beating us twice, but couldn't dispatch the smaller sides at home because Rafa was too cautious.
posted on 30/4/14
Rafa is another, Liverpool are heralding Rogers as the second coming but Liverpool were way more of a threatening team with Rafa. Why because he employed actual defending tactics
=================================================
I think that's a little bit of a myth. Over the course of Rafa's first 5 years in the CL, Liverpool were the top-scoring English team. (In 2008, I think they were top-scorers in the competition).
It was only in his final year, when Liverpool crashed out of the group stages with only 5 goals scored, that the other English teams caught up.
Liverpool had some high-scoring games in the CL during that period (6-2 vs. Leverkusen, 5-7 vs. Ancelotti's Chelsea, 5-3 vs. Arsenal, 5-0 vs. Real Madrid, etc).
posted on 30/4/14
Do you mean the tactics of trying to keep the ball out of play for as long as possible? Surely that is cheating rather than tactics and is the very definition of anti football.
posted on 30/4/14
So Wessie goals = attacking Footy ?
Chelsea 2 Liverpool 0
Chelsea attacked
posted on 30/4/14
So Wessie goals = attacking Footy ?
Chelsea 2 Liverpool 0
Chelsea attacked
===============================================
I didn’t say they played particularly attacking football, but it’s unlikely that a defensive team would be top-scorers over a period of 5 years. Benitez used completely different strategies to Mourinho...it wasn’t particularly attacking or defensive, it was all about the type of possession.
He was also willing to accept the downside of flair players like Mata and Luis Garcia...Jose is not.
But to be honest, I was joining in a debate with those of your fans who are capable of it. It's not your strong point, TCP....you're better off sticking to your smileys.
Even your most ardent fans don’t think you played an attacking game last weekend, the only issue is whether you should be criticised for it, and I didn’t do that.
posted on 30/4/14
I don't think Liverpool were very attacking 0
posted on 30/4/14
Liverpool were only the top scoring English club in two of Rafa Benitez's six seasons in charge in the Champions League.
posted on 30/4/14
Liverpool were only the top scoring English club in two of Rafa Benitez's six seasons in charge in the Champions League.
================================================
Well, that's quite a lot, for a manager reputed to be 'defensive'. But I never said top-scoring every year for 5 years...that would be some feat....I said top-scoring over the course of the whole 5 years.
His methods were about winning possession high up the pitch (using Duracell bunnies like Kuyt and Sissoko), and releasing the flair players early (like Torres and Luis Garcia)...as opposed to focussing on possession....he didn't value possession, he valued quick turnover.
It's quite a risky strategy....hence some high-scoring games (for both sides). I never thought of him as a defensive coach while he was at Liverpool....Houllier was more defensive.
posted on 30/4/14
Against Liverpool the genius was in that the full backs didn't even defend in the full back positions. We had Schurrle and Salah as wing backs and they did the full backs job. This means that if they were beaten the full back can just clean up.
----------------------
How is this genius?
posted on 30/4/14
The genius of how to win against the current leaders in their own ground with a second team. Liverpool have murdered full backs all year, with pace and trickery on the flanks.
So jose allowed this to happen all game knowing that if the wing back is beaten the full back is always behind him. If you watch there are many times you see Azipi and Cole start to rush out to the flanks to engage Stirling or Suarez but run back and hold their position. Had they of made that run Liverpool would exploit the space behind.
Page 1 of 2