comment by The Duality of Van (Dijk) (U21747)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)

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Of course but what this got to do with the world cup Fred? As I said, their public executions is an issue, but dragon it out in the name of a world cup is ridiculous and hypocritical. USA will host one soon and you haven't said fack all.
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If they have dragons in Saudi I'm out
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Dragging even

I don't think a world cup will bring much more development to Saudi given they've already had 3/4 years now of (former) world class players playing there.

If you were a Saudi national who's never watched the sport before and debating getting into football, I feel like you already would have.

Qatar and Saudi defo have dodgy human rights records but so do the US, UK, France and whoever. They just happen to be white.

What I can tell you is that Qatar world cup was one of th best in memory. The games were brilliant, I enjoyed it being in the winter and what a final.

It was the safest world cup, everyone got on, no hooligans and a football festival. This will be replicated at Saudi too.

comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted about a minute ago
The US Justice Department have openly said both the Russia and Qatar bids were won via massive bribes.

To suggest Qatar was about development is just a big lol if we’re honest. It’s smaller than Birmingham and gets gates of 4k.
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Saudi makes significantly more sense than Qatar from a logistical standpoint.

Until you remember that another local pastime is popping along to the town square to watch somebody who was been tortured into a confession get beheaded by a sword.
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Oh my goodness! Saudi got issues for sure, but what the fack is this nonsense?
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Public executions in Saudi are still very much a thing and they are mostly done by beheading. Surely you know that?
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Of course but what this got to do with the world cup Fred? As I said, their public executions is an issue, but dragon it out in the name of a world cup is ridiculous and hypocritical. USA will host one soon and you haven't said fack all.
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See my last comment.

I completely agree that the US has its own massive issues with capital punishment, especially when you look at the massive disparity between race and class in those that receive the death penalty.

But it’s disingenuous to compare the human rights records of the US and Saudi. The US may still have a horrendous capital punishment system, but it also has a functioning democracy, a relatively free press, and institutions that offer avenues for people to challenge injustices, including the death penalty. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia's human rights record is far broader, with systemic issues around freedom of expression, gender equality, political repression, and public executions.

Saudi Arabia’s use of beheadings and other forms of public punishment isn’t just about capital punishment—it’s part of a wider culture of authoritarian rule, where dissent is brutally suppressed. There’s no space for open debate, no real legal protections for minorities or political activists, and basic rights are heavily restricted, especially for women and gay people.

US has massive flaws, no argument there, but the scale and nature of human rights violations in Saudi Arabia go far beyond what we see in the States, and that’s a massive issue when it comes to hosting something as global as the World Cup.

I think you also raise a fair point about the US and you talk about them funding genocides. But one of those countries they back is Saudi Arabia ffs.

The US killed over 1 millions Iraqis which ends all debates about human rights

comment by Fred Slot (U3979)

US has massive flaws, no argument there, but the scale and nature of human rights violations in Saudi Arabia go far beyond what we see in the States, and that’s a massive issue when it comes to hosting something as global as the World Cup.

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Playing devil's advocate here, but what about what both of these countries do OUTSIDE their borders? It's entirely relevant too since this is an international tournament. The Global South have had a lesson this year how hollow international law is when it comes to the West and it's allies

For my part, I don't think TOOR is wrong about development even if the whole process is also corrupt and has also been hijacked the last few tournaments. Development could be one single Saudi player becoming a star, Saudi city's opening up for tourism, or even a small change for the better in human rights within the country.

comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted about a minute ago
The US Justice Department have openly said both the Russia and Qatar bids were won via massive bribes.

To suggest Qatar was about development is just a big lol if we’re honest. It’s smaller than Birmingham and gets gates of 4k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saudi makes significantly more sense than Qatar from a logistical standpoint.

Until you remember that another local pastime is popping along to the town square to watch somebody who was been tortured into a confession get beheaded by a sword.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh my goodness! Saudi got issues for sure, but what the fack is this nonsense?
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Public executions in Saudi are still very much a thing and they are mostly done by beheading. Surely you know that?
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Of course but what this got to do with the world cup Fred? As I said, their public executions is an issue, but dragon it out in the name of a world cup is ridiculous and hypocritical. USA will host one soon and you haven't said fack all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


See my last comment.

I completely agree that the US has its own massive issues with capital punishment, especially when you look at the massive disparity between race and class in those that receive the death penalty.

But it’s disingenuous to compare the human rights records of the US and Saudi. The US may still have a horrendous capital punishment system, but it also has a functioning democracy, a relatively free press, and institutions that offer avenues for people to challenge injustices, including the death penalty. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia's human rights record is far broader, with systemic issues around freedom of expression, gender equality, political repression, and public executions.

Saudi Arabia’s use of beheadings and other forms of public punishment isn’t just about capital punishment—it’s part of a wider culture of authoritarian rule, where dissent is brutally suppressed. There’s no space for open debate, no real legal protections for minorities or political activists, and basic rights are heavily restricted, especially for women and gay people.

US has massive flaws, no argument there, but the scale and nature of human rights violations in Saudi Arabia go far beyond what we see in the States, and that’s a massive issue when it comes to hosting something as global as the World Cup.

I think you also raise a fair point about the US and you talk about them funding genocides. But one of those countries they back is Saudi Arabia ffs.
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Exactly. Therefore they don't deserve it any more or less. The uproar and furore around this may be justified and based on factual abhorrent practices, but that doesn't mean it's not hypocritical and blatant double standards to try and stop a world cup going there on those grounds.

comment by (K̇ash) - Welcome to Mo Trafford - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 Resistance is Existence (U1108)
posted 6 minutes ago
The US killed over 1 millions Iraqis which ends all debates about human rights
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And that's just Iraq alone. We have an international refugee crisis stemming mainly out the instability that these wars, invasions and covert coups contribute to.

I think all this thread has highlighted is how the US seems to get off scott free considering what an appalling country it is on the world stage.

Not sure I disagree frankly. Doesn't give Saudi Arabia carte blanche to do what they do to their citizens though.

comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted less than a minute ago
For the record, I have the same issue with the US and their disgusting use of nitrogen asphyxiation, the electric chair, and lethal injection. Death penalty is just abhorrent.
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Finally. And what about their rap sheet, which I don't want to start listing. Invading countries, funding and providing tech and weapons for genocides, covertly facking up other countries etc etc....

If you're not happy with Saudi you should be raving mad over USA, going by the pure facts, no?
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Everyone’s talking about Saudi. The ‘yeah but’ counter just comes across as lame.

comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted less than a minute ago
For the record, I have the same issue with the US and their disgusting use of nitrogen asphyxiation, the electric chair, and lethal injection. Death penalty is just abhorrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally. And what about their rap sheet, which I don't want to start listing. Invading countries, funding and providing tech and weapons for genocides, covertly facking up other countries etc etc....

If you're not happy with Saudi you should be raving mad over USA, going by the pure facts, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone’s talking about Saudi. The ‘yeah but’ counter just comes across as lame.
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It's a fair point though Term, why doesn't the US get the same level of scrutiny?

comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted about a minute ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted less than a minute ago
For the record, I have the same issue with the US and their disgusting use of nitrogen asphyxiation, the electric chair, and lethal injection. Death penalty is just abhorrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally. And what about their rap sheet, which I don't want to start listing. Invading countries, funding and providing tech and weapons for genocides, covertly facking up other countries etc etc....

If you're not happy with Saudi you should be raving mad over USA, going by the pure facts, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone’s talking about Saudi. The ‘yeah but’ counter just comes across as lame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a fair point though Term, why doesn't the US get the same level of scrutiny?
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Well I’ve not seen anyone here defending the US…..

But damn you Fred, you’ve opened Pandora’s Box and turned this into the politics thread. Kash and Mamba are in heaven.

It just confirms that the human race is feked up regardless who has the world cup. You can either moan about it and fall for narratives or you can just get on with it because we all are gonna die one day.

I think the post that started this convo was about stereotypical or dismissive attitudes to recent hosts of the World Cup, so seems fair to challenge that

Here, ChatGPT has kindly provided me a list of every country that's hosted a world cup since WW2 and a global atrocity associated with it. Basically it should be hosted on the moon. Enjoy!

2034 – Saudi Arabia
Atrocity/Controversy: Saudi Arabia’s involvement in the Yemen Civil War has resulted in widespread civilian casualties and a humanitarian crisis. The Saudi-led coalition has been accused of committing war crimes, including indiscriminate airstrikes on civilian areas. The country also has a history of human rights abuses such as public executions, oppression of women, and restrictions on freedom of expression. There are concerns over "sportswashing" through its investments in sports like LIV Golf and hosting global events.

2022 – Qatar
Atrocity/Controversy: Qatar has faced significant criticism for its human rights violations, particularly concerning migrant workers' conditions during World Cup preparations. Reports highlighted deaths, poor working conditions, and exploitation of workers. Furthermore, Qatar has been criticized for its lack of LGBTQ+ rights, suppression of free speech, and legal system that is based on strict interpretations of Islamic law, resulting in the oppression of women and religious minorities.

2018 – Russia
Atrocity/Controversy: Russia’s involvement in military actions in Ukraine (2014 and 2022) has sparked global outrage, with the annexation of Crimea and the ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine. Russia has also faced accusations of interfering in foreign elections, human rights abuses, and the suppression of political opposition under Vladimir Putin's regime. The poisoning of opposition leader Alexei Navalny and crackdowns on LGBTQ+ rights are also part of Russia's global controversies.

2014 – Brazil
Atrocity/Controversy: Brazil’s historical involvement in military dictatorship (1964-1985) resulted in widespread human rights abuses, including forced disappearances, torture, and political repression. More recently, the country’s Amazon deforestation policies, particularly under President Jair Bolsonaro, have drawn international condemnation for contributing to environmental destruction, threatening indigenous communities, and exacerbating global climate change.

2010 – South Africa
Atrocity/Controversy: South Africa’s apartheid regime (1948-1994) is one of the most notorious global atrocities, involving institutionalized racial segregation and systemic discrimination against the Black majority. While the country has made significant strides since the end of apartheid, socio-economic inequality and violent crime continue to plague the nation.

2006 – Germany
Atrocity/Controversy: Germany’s Naaazi past and the atrocities committed during World War II, including the Holocaust, are among the most horrific in history. However, Germany has undertaken a profound process of atonement and education around its history, making it a model for reconciliation and remembrance. The legacy of Naaaazi-era atrocities, while a dark chapter, does not define modern Germany, which has become a leading advocate for human rights.

2002 – South Korea/Japan
Atrocity/Controversy: Both countries have histories of conflict and war-related atrocities. Japan, in particular, is remembered for its invasion of China, including the infamous Nanjing Massacre (1937), where tens of thousands of Chinese civilians were killed. The country also used comfort women (women from occupied territories forced into sexual slavery) during World War II, an issue that remains contentious with South Korea and China.

1998 – France
Atrocity/Controversy: France’s colonial history is marked by violence, particularly during the Algerian War of Independence (1954-1962), where both sides committed atrocities. The war resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths, and France’s brutal repression of Algerians seeking independence has left deep scars in both countries. While modern France has taken steps to reconcile with its colonial past, tensions still exist over issues of immigration, race, and identity.

1994 – United States
Atrocity/Controversy: The U.S. has been involved in several military interventions that have caused widespread civilian casualties and suffering, such as the invasion of Iraq in 2003, which led to a long, devastating war and the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians. The U.S. also played a role in the Vietnam War and covert operations in Latin America that destabilized several governments. More recently, its involvement in Yemen with Saudi Arabia has sparked further criticism.

1990 – Italy
Atrocity/Controversy: Italy’s involvement in World War II as part of the Axis Powers led to war crimes, including the Massacre of the Italians in the Greek island of Cephalonia (1943), where 5,000 Italian soldiers were killed. The country was also involved in the Ethiopian invasion, committing atrocities including the use of chemical weapons.

1986 – Mexico
Atrocity/Controversy: Mexico’s dirty war (1970s-1980s) involved human rights abuses by the state, including the forced disappearance of political opponents and activists. The 1968 Tlatelolco massacre, where hundreds of students were killed by the Mexican military during a protest, is another dark chapter in its history.

1982 – Spain
Atrocity/Controversy: Spain’s Franco dictatorship (1939-1975) was marked by brutal repression, including the execution and imprisonment of political dissidents and the suppression of regional languages and cultures. While Spain transitioned to democracy after Franco’s death, the legacy of the dictatorship still affects Spanish politics and society.

1978 – Argentina
Atrocity/Controversy: Argentina’s military dictatorship (1976-1983) resulted in widespread human rights abuses, including the disappearance of 30,000 people, torture, and executions of suspected political opponents. The Dirty War remains a highly controversial period in Argentina’s history.

1974 – West Germany
Atrocity/Controversy: Similar to Germany’s history mentioned earlier, West Germany’s involvement in World War II, particularly in the Holocaust, remains one of the darkest chapters in history.

1970 – Mexico
Atrocity/Controversy: Mexico’s Tlatelolco massacre occurred just days before the 1968 Olympics, where government forces killed hundreds of students and activists protesting the government’s repressive policies.

1966 – England
Atrocity/Controversy: While England’s direct involvement in global atrocities is less apparent in recent history, its legacy of imperialism and colonialism, particularly in India, Ireland, and Africa, left significant scars on the global stage. The lasting impacts of this colonial past continue to shape global relationships.

1962 – Chile
Atrocity/Controversy: In 1973, Chile saw a military coup that led to the rise of Augusto Pinochet, who ruled as a dictator until 1990. Pinochet’s regime was responsible for widespread human rights abuses, including torture, extrajudicial killings, and forced disappearances.

1958 – Sweden
Atrocity/Controversy: Sweden's involvement in the Cold War as a neutral country kept it largely outside of direct conflict. However, its arms dealings during the Cold War period, including selling arms to both sides, raised questions about its role in global conflicts.

1954 – Switzerland
Atrocity/Controversy: Switzerland maintained neutrality during World War II, but it has faced criticism for its financial dealings with Naaaaaazi Germany, including acting as a hub for gold transactions looted from Jews and other victims of the Naaaaazis.

1950 – Brazil
Atrocity/Controversy: Brazil, like most countries at the time, had colonial roots and faced criticism for its treatment of Indigenous populations. In more recent history, the country’s history of military dictatorship (1964-1985) included repression, torture, and censorship.

comment by The Duality of Van (Dijk) (U21747)
posted about a minute ago
I think the post that started this convo was about stereotypical or dismissive attitudes to recent hosts of the World Cup, so seems fair to challenge that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure stereotypical is the right word, genuine issues that exist today in Saudi have been called out. Just because Saudi is an Arab country, doesn't mean you can just write off those concerns as "stereotypical".

comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by The Duality of Van (Dijk) (U21747)
posted about a minute ago
I think the post that started this convo was about stereotypical or dismissive attitudes to recent hosts of the World Cup, so seems fair to challenge that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure stereotypical is the right word, genuine issues that exist today in Saudi have been called out. Just because Saudi is an Arab country, doesn't mean you can just write off those concerns as "stereotypical".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if unclear, I meant this post specifically:

'There are not too many World Cups in can remember when the English didn't complain about the hosts getting it.

2002 - they eat dogs.
2010 - there's gonna be muggings and beatings in the streets
2014 - as above
2018 - racists will attack everyone
2022 - gаys and people drinking alcohol will be sent to prison'

comment by The Duality of Van (Dijk) (U21747)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by The Duality of Van (Dijk) (U21747)
posted about a minute ago
I think the post that started this convo was about stereotypical or dismissive attitudes to recent hosts of the World Cup, so seems fair to challenge that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure stereotypical is the right word, genuine issues that exist today in Saudi have been called out. Just because Saudi is an Arab country, doesn't mean you can just write off those concerns as "stereotypical".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if unclear, I meant this post specifically:

'There are not too many World Cups in can remember when the English didn't complain about the hosts getting it.

2002 - they eat dogs.
2010 - there's gonna be muggings and beatings in the streets
2014 - as above
2018 - racists will attack everyone
2022 - gаys and people drinking alcohol will be sent to prison'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair!

comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted about a minute ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Mamba - I filter right back (U1282)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Fred Slot (U3979)
posted less than a minute ago
For the record, I have the same issue with the US and their disgusting use of nitrogen asphyxiation, the electric chair, and lethal injection. Death penalty is just abhorrent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally. And what about their rap sheet, which I don't want to start listing. Invading countries, funding and providing tech and weapons for genocides, covertly facking up other countries etc etc....

If you're not happy with Saudi you should be raving mad over USA, going by the pure facts, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone’s talking about Saudi. The ‘yeah but’ counter just comes across as lame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a fair point though Term, why doesn't the US get the same level of scrutiny?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I’ve not seen anyone here defending the US…..

But damn you Fred, you’ve opened Pandora’s Box and turned this into the politics thread. Kash and Mamba are in heaven.
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was just thinking this too, there are people who can’t help themselves when it comes to politics talk.

Let's get the thread back on track.

Darwin Nunez - shiiiiiit isn't he...

"But damn you Fred, you’ve opened Pandora’s Box and turned this into the politics thread."

FFS Fred

Is this still a bumming thread?

comment by Irishred (U2539)

Is this still a bumming thread?
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Only in certain footballing countries

Not during the 2034 world cup though

comment by The Duality of Van (Dijk) (U21747)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)

Is this still a bumming thread?
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Only in certain footballing countries
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You beat me to it