I think there's almost a case of where you could end up with the dilemma of do you constantly keep adapting your team, as the old move on the new come in or do you just go screw it pick the young generation and stick with them for several tournaments.
The first choice would probably mean you're always likely to perform but never gel enough to win anything whereas the second option is more likely to go through a cycle of being poor then great then poor a la Spain.
" In my eyes you should not play for England until you are over 21."
Michael Owen.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Yes I know who Michael Owen is. He burned out at 28 with creamy hamstrings. Any thoughts on the article though?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
we need a set up where the best team is played not just who is deemed the best individual players, players should not decide which position is thier best for the team is and sulk when they are not put where they want. we currently have no plan b we just hope somehow we will beat teams, sturridge was having a terrible game yesterday and should not have made it to the second half. This is why we shouldn't have an English manager, they are far too concerned with pandering to the British press
until this happens it doesn't matter who is in the team
Safe to say I'd rather this was not on Spurs board.
I just want an England team who I can enjoy watching and who are half decent. The last time I had any real enjoyment watching England was at Euro 96 and to a lesser extent WC 98. I miss Shearer, Gazza, Ince and Sheringham
Really don't know what to suggest going forward. Probably think that Gerrard should no longer start however he was probably the best player in qualification.
Rooney gets a lot of stick but is still probably the best we have.
I really wish we could develop some good attacking wingers. The crossing yesterday was horrendous, we put in 6 or 7 and all of them went straight to the keeper. If Sterling can progress and develop his crossing then he will be an asset. There seems to be no top left sided player though. Maybe Shaw can fill this void - Baines at LB with Shaw at LW maybe ?
"He burned out at 28 with creamy hamstrings."
Not because of starting to play for England at 19.
So your "under 21" musings are flawed on both counts.
When kids get a chance in the senior setup it should be always viewed as simply them getting a great opportunity to play, and not because they are the next Pele. If the quality of the seniors was at a high enough level across the squad then those opportunities would be few and far between anyway.
I don't think there should be a cast iron rule for u21s but I get where you're going with the principle.
The way I see it the national side should be treated no differently to how a manager would pick a club side - no restriction on ages, the manager has a philosophy on how a football team should play, be it Brendan Rodgers' passing, Big Sam's long ball, whatever.
Manager then picks the best players suited to the style he wants to implement whomever that is. Inevitably the England team would not then be the best player available in every position but the best player suited to that philosophy.
comment by Robbing_Hoody - Here, have some goals. You don't have to work for them. They're a gift. That's what we do now. (U6374)
posted 5 minutes ago
Safe to say I'd rather this was not on Spurs board.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
why not?
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 1 minute ago
I just want an England team who I can enjoy watching and who are half decent. The last time I had any real enjoyment watching England was at Euro 96 and to a lesser extent WC 98. I miss Shearer, Gazza, Ince and Sheringham
Really don't know what to suggest going forward. Probably think that Gerrard should no longer start however he was probably the best player in qualification.
Rooney gets a lot of stick but is still probably the best we have.
I really wish we could develop some good attacking wingers. The crossing yesterday was horrendous, we put in 6 or 7 and all of them went straight to the keeper. If Sterling can progress and develop his crossing then he will be an asset. There seems to be no top left sided player though. Maybe Shaw can fill this void - Baines at LB with Shaw at LW maybe ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah fair enough Palmers. I remember when we tried it with Cole and Bridge and it actually worked okay as at least we had balance.
I guess I'm saying Englands problem is a winning menmtality not about their talent and I feel winning stuff when young, for England, would be beneficial.
In my eyes you should not play for England until you are over 21
--------------
Sterling has been one of our best players!
The problem this year is that we were essentially Liverpool without Suarez. We should have set ourselves up to the system Liverpool were playing in the league and if that means Rooney doesn't fit/work then so be it, he won't play.
You're basically advocating an age cap.
I don't agree. I think if a young player is a better player than a senior one then they deserve the chance to play at senior level.
Where the FA are going wrong with the first team (they are doing or did a hell of a lot wrong at grass roots level) is not appointing a manager with a modern philosophy. I personally care don't care if this manager is an English one, but our recent managers have all played a sterile defensive brand of football.
From grass levels up the FA needs to promote technical ability rather than physical attributes. We have a long way to go in this regard.
I've no doubt Sterling, Ox, Barkley and Shaw are good enough but I would rather they grew together in the U21's with less pressure and gain tournament winning experience.
Paisley;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27827569
England just won the U-17's European Championship, so the players coming through might not be the problem. It's just how we can manage to develop them correctly from this point on that's the problem.
belgium just got lucky they had a lot of good footballers born in belgium, they will never win a championship
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
England just won the U-17's European Championship, so the players coming through might not be the problem. It's just how we can manage to develop them correctly from this point on that's the problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They all get given nice big fat contracts far too early. Endorsements come, media do special pieces on them and hype them up. So they've got it all at a young age. Money, cars, women and a 5 year contract earning 40k a week giving them security so where's the incentive to work. It all ends up going to their head and we're left with a player who's gone backwards in developement, Just to be clear. any human would do the same, if they're give rewards far too earlyt, they subconsciously switch off from the job in hand (Which is developing their football)
Foreign players get peanuts in their own league. Its only when they come inthe PL, that's when they get an upgrade on their wages. So think of how many medicore English players are getting. Read something the other day that Costa is something like 30k a week? Ridiculous. No doubt he'll treble that over here but it just shows how much money is floating about in our league and how much ends up getting wasted by giving it to players who dont end up fulfilling their potential. Make them work to earn a 50k contract. Make them realise that to earn money, you need to be a good player because right now, you dont need to be that good to earn a shedload of money from the PL and you can see why young players stop developing
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Agree with OP.
Other top countries like Spain and Italy that win things take their U21's very seriously. We don't.
We just seem to expect everything to fall into place at Senior level and it so rarely ever does.
*prepubescent*
damn tablet
Other top countries like Spain and Italy that win things take their U21's very seriously. We don't.
-------------------------
How do you consider them taking their u21's more seriously? Seems that is an opinion not a fact.
comment by Sir Digby (U6039)
posted 13 minutes ago
belgium just got lucky they had a lot of good footballers born in belgium, they will never win a championship
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see them being the new England, lots of individual talented players who perform well for their club but can't get them working together to reach their potential
Sign in if you want to comment
Englands future: Thoughts please
Page 1 of 2
posted on 20/6/14
I think there's almost a case of where you could end up with the dilemma of do you constantly keep adapting your team, as the old move on the new come in or do you just go screw it pick the young generation and stick with them for several tournaments.
The first choice would probably mean you're always likely to perform but never gel enough to win anything whereas the second option is more likely to go through a cycle of being poor then great then poor a la Spain.
posted on 20/6/14
" In my eyes you should not play for England until you are over 21."
Michael Owen.
posted on 20/6/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/6/14
Yes I know who Michael Owen is. He burned out at 28 with creamy hamstrings. Any thoughts on the article though?
posted on 20/6/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/6/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/6/14
we need a set up where the best team is played not just who is deemed the best individual players, players should not decide which position is thier best for the team is and sulk when they are not put where they want. we currently have no plan b we just hope somehow we will beat teams, sturridge was having a terrible game yesterday and should not have made it to the second half. This is why we shouldn't have an English manager, they are far too concerned with pandering to the British press
until this happens it doesn't matter who is in the team
posted on 20/6/14
Safe to say I'd rather this was not on Spurs board.
posted on 20/6/14
I just want an England team who I can enjoy watching and who are half decent. The last time I had any real enjoyment watching England was at Euro 96 and to a lesser extent WC 98. I miss Shearer, Gazza, Ince and Sheringham
Really don't know what to suggest going forward. Probably think that Gerrard should no longer start however he was probably the best player in qualification.
Rooney gets a lot of stick but is still probably the best we have.
I really wish we could develop some good attacking wingers. The crossing yesterday was horrendous, we put in 6 or 7 and all of them went straight to the keeper. If Sterling can progress and develop his crossing then he will be an asset. There seems to be no top left sided player though. Maybe Shaw can fill this void - Baines at LB with Shaw at LW maybe ?
posted on 20/6/14
"He burned out at 28 with creamy hamstrings."
Not because of starting to play for England at 19.
So your "under 21" musings are flawed on both counts.
When kids get a chance in the senior setup it should be always viewed as simply them getting a great opportunity to play, and not because they are the next Pele. If the quality of the seniors was at a high enough level across the squad then those opportunities would be few and far between anyway.
posted on 20/6/14
I don't think there should be a cast iron rule for u21s but I get where you're going with the principle.
The way I see it the national side should be treated no differently to how a manager would pick a club side - no restriction on ages, the manager has a philosophy on how a football team should play, be it Brendan Rodgers' passing, Big Sam's long ball, whatever.
Manager then picks the best players suited to the style he wants to implement whomever that is. Inevitably the England team would not then be the best player available in every position but the best player suited to that philosophy.
posted on 20/6/14
comment by Robbing_Hoody - Here, have some goals. You don't have to work for them. They're a gift. That's what we do now. (U6374)
posted 5 minutes ago
Safe to say I'd rather this was not on Spurs board.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
why not?
posted on 20/6/14
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 1 minute ago
I just want an England team who I can enjoy watching and who are half decent. The last time I had any real enjoyment watching England was at Euro 96 and to a lesser extent WC 98. I miss Shearer, Gazza, Ince and Sheringham
Really don't know what to suggest going forward. Probably think that Gerrard should no longer start however he was probably the best player in qualification.
Rooney gets a lot of stick but is still probably the best we have.
I really wish we could develop some good attacking wingers. The crossing yesterday was horrendous, we put in 6 or 7 and all of them went straight to the keeper. If Sterling can progress and develop his crossing then he will be an asset. There seems to be no top left sided player though. Maybe Shaw can fill this void - Baines at LB with Shaw at LW maybe ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah fair enough Palmers. I remember when we tried it with Cole and Bridge and it actually worked okay as at least we had balance.
I guess I'm saying Englands problem is a winning menmtality not about their talent and I feel winning stuff when young, for England, would be beneficial.
posted on 20/6/14
In my eyes you should not play for England until you are over 21
--------------
Sterling has been one of our best players!
The problem this year is that we were essentially Liverpool without Suarez. We should have set ourselves up to the system Liverpool were playing in the league and if that means Rooney doesn't fit/work then so be it, he won't play.
posted on 20/6/14
You're basically advocating an age cap.
I don't agree. I think if a young player is a better player than a senior one then they deserve the chance to play at senior level.
Where the FA are going wrong with the first team (they are doing or did a hell of a lot wrong at grass roots level) is not appointing a manager with a modern philosophy. I personally care don't care if this manager is an English one, but our recent managers have all played a sterile defensive brand of football.
From grass levels up the FA needs to promote technical ability rather than physical attributes. We have a long way to go in this regard.
posted on 20/6/14
I've no doubt Sterling, Ox, Barkley and Shaw are good enough but I would rather they grew together in the U21's with less pressure and gain tournament winning experience.
posted on 20/6/14
Paisley;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27827569
posted on 20/6/14
England just won the U-17's European Championship, so the players coming through might not be the problem. It's just how we can manage to develop them correctly from this point on that's the problem.
posted on 20/6/14
belgium just got lucky they had a lot of good footballers born in belgium, they will never win a championship
posted on 20/6/14
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
England just won the U-17's European Championship, so the players coming through might not be the problem. It's just how we can manage to develop them correctly from this point on that's the problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They all get given nice big fat contracts far too early. Endorsements come, media do special pieces on them and hype them up. So they've got it all at a young age. Money, cars, women and a 5 year contract earning 40k a week giving them security so where's the incentive to work. It all ends up going to their head and we're left with a player who's gone backwards in developement, Just to be clear. any human would do the same, if they're give rewards far too earlyt, they subconsciously switch off from the job in hand (Which is developing their football)
Foreign players get peanuts in their own league. Its only when they come inthe PL, that's when they get an upgrade on their wages. So think of how many medicore English players are getting. Read something the other day that Costa is something like 30k a week? Ridiculous. No doubt he'll treble that over here but it just shows how much money is floating about in our league and how much ends up getting wasted by giving it to players who dont end up fulfilling their potential. Make them work to earn a 50k contract. Make them realise that to earn money, you need to be a good player because right now, you dont need to be that good to earn a shedload of money from the PL and you can see why young players stop developing
posted on 20/6/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/6/14
Agree with OP.
Other top countries like Spain and Italy that win things take their U21's very seriously. We don't.
We just seem to expect everything to fall into place at Senior level and it so rarely ever does.
posted on 20/6/14
*prepubescent*
damn tablet
posted on 20/6/14
Other top countries like Spain and Italy that win things take their U21's very seriously. We don't.
-------------------------
How do you consider them taking their u21's more seriously? Seems that is an opinion not a fact.
posted on 20/6/14
comment by Sir Digby (U6039)
posted 13 minutes ago
belgium just got lucky they had a lot of good footballers born in belgium, they will never win a championship
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see them being the new England, lots of individual talented players who perform well for their club but can't get them working together to reach their potential
Page 1 of 2