we would have made the final with Barry and Carrick in midfield, each vying for player of the tournament award

Many England fans are idiots who are blind to what players of other clubs do.

I used to think people were just on the wind up when then say player x was poor despite me watching him playing well, getting player of the tournament etc etc but now I've come to the conclusion that they actually believe what they're saying, they're blinded by club bias.

"I've come to the conclusion that they actually believe what they're saying"

me too

Rooney could win the ball back all day and set up numerous chances but when England lose "he did nothing"

One match Gerrard hit 11 out of 13 'long passes' inch perfect (according to stat companies) and "all he did was over hit hollywood passes all day"

They genuinely believe that's what they saw. Because that's what they wanted/expected to see prior to kickoff.

Us United and Liverpool fans are usually some of the worst for it as well, I think some of them genuinely go in with good intentions...

All it takes is one good wum though and the red mist descends and suddenly all of a clubs players played terribly regardless of the facts.

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we would have made the final with Barry and Carrick in midfield, each vying for player of the tournament award
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It is almost impossible to remove the club bias, theres also individual player bias, say what you want about Fellaini for example but don't you dare say a word against Mata or De Gea!

SAF

Gerrard at his pomp was brilliant, but for a large portion of his career he was just good. If you listen to talksport,they'd have you believe that Gerrard (along with Rooney) are the only world class players England have produced.

I'd actually say Gerrard was underrated. He's regarded as being poor for England yet has been England's best player and got into FIFA XI's at tournaments. It's crazy. Admittedly he didn't do much in the last one but England were never going to do anything with those tactics, with Lampard and Gerrard and Cole declining and Terry and Ferdinand out if the picture. They were all top players and they haven't been replaced with the same quality.

In fact Gerrard is still the best English midfielder and he's thirty-four.

Baines is close enough to Cole. Henderson nowhere near Lampard. Cahill and Jagielka nowhere near Terry and Ferdinand and Gerrard not as good as he was.

However England fans got what they asked for, they wanted young players to go and that's what happened.

So many truths in this article. Club bias is unavoidable to some degree but especially the type where logic is forsaken is a killer and pretty prevalent on this site IMO.

Didn't disagree with a lot of that TOOR, England have a pretty crap midfield. If Carrick had been closer to his usual standards last season I may put him over Gerrard as England's best midfielder but he wasn't up to much last season either. I am tempted to say that could be down to us being terrible in general last season so not completely his fault....

The only players I could think to mention aside from that is Barry or maybe Henderson...

Don't think theres much between the 4 of them.

I do really have to disagree with Baines being close to Cole (I assume we are talking about Cole in his prime) Cole was one of the best around, Baines is very good there is quite a big gap between them IMO.

Cole, at his best, was the only England player in the last 10 years or so for me who could be considered in the top 1 or 2 in the world in his position. Baines, for however good I think he is for us, is nowhere near that. Maybe top 5 in Europe. He is a very good fullback and brilliant going fullback when playing in the right system, but not at the top of his tree.

Brilliant going forward.

I agree but I meant at their current abilities.

Baines looks like a duck out of water for England

Either Roy doesn't play to his strengths or he's just too intimidated by the step up. Maybe both.

comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 2 minutes ago
Baines looks like a duck out of water for England

Either Roy doesn't play to his strengths or he's just too intimidated by the step up. Maybe both.
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You have to remember he's twenty-nine and has barely played for England. He's played less games than Carrick for example who's had a few appearances in the last few years. He's still fairly new to it all.

Baines looks like a duck out of water for England

Baines looks good when he has Piennar in front of him,someone who tracks back when he attacks. He constantly looked exposed when he played for England.

Barkley
Ivanovic
Coutinho

I'd put a lot of it on Roy rather than Baines to be honest

I have come to the Henderson debate late, however he was the standout English Central midfield player last season.

comment by Metro. (U6770)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
Prior to Suarez, Liverpool were always called a one man team because of Gerrard.

Now he's overrated??

Make your minds up lads
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I think people rate him for his contributions but also see that he has been overrated by others. As much as he could score a winner from nothing he could also provide the opposition with a gimme!

He scored some goals for England but then so did Peter Crouch. David Platt and Frank Lampard have scored more goals for England from mid-field with less caps.

Perhaps compare him to David Platt, 448 games with 151 goals versus Gerrard 475 games with 111 goals.

Platt played for Villa, Bari, Juventus, Sampdoria, Arsenal and Forest. He won Premiere League, FA Cup UEFA Cup, Coppa Italia, and was part of an England team that got to the semi finals of the World Cup and European Championship. A scorer of some decisive goals just as Gerrard has been. Platt also won PFA Player of the year once just as Gerrard has.

So I'd be happy enough to rate Gerrard alongside David Platt, two damn fine players who have left their mark on the game, but not as the hyped-up Roy Of The Rovers World-Beater some would have us believe, that is overrated!!!

Platt and his Belgium goal - WOW.

I produced an article ages ago about Gerrard for England.

You'd think he was Englands worst player of the last 2 years if you listened to some on here and the tabloids.

Yet a little bit of research shows that since the turn of the Milennium, he has arguably been Englands best performer - being voted Englands best player at 2-3 of the major tournaments, and even getting into the best XI tournament teams.

I think part of the problem is that Gerrard represents one of the few players that could turn a game on its head. If that didn't happen, then there was only one man to blame.

Its a shame really because the other members of the squad get off scott free for being completely anonymous.

"Yet a little bit of research shows that since the turn of the Milennium, he has arguably been Englands best performer - being voted Englands best player at 2-3 of the major tournaments, and even getting into the best XI tournament teams."

yep

It's rival fans who don't like him attempting a history rewrite.

being voted Englands best player at 2-3 of the major tournaments, and even getting into the best XI tournament teams.

Is it 2 or 3,or are you just surmising here?

And even a quick check will tell you that Stevie G has never made it into a best XI tournament team........he did make it into the best 23 squad of the tournament at the 2012 Euros but has never made that accolade at any other tournament.

I like Stevie G as a player, undoubted quality and has the rare ability for an Englishman to pick up a team and put them on his back if nobody else is playing well, but only really at club level. As for his international career he had a bright start, was pretty anonymous for large parts of his career but really came into it when he was made captain and was undoubtedly England's best player at the 2012 euros. However as a body of work his international career for me is very much a case of could have done so much more given how good he was for Liverpool.

Now this may well be because of several England manager's insistence that both he and Lampard had to play despite the fact that they never really gelled as a central midfield pairing or that he was never really given the responsibility he was at Liverpool, but that is not for me to say.

If I was going to compare I would say he is quite a lot like John Barnes in terms of international career, both were always consistently excellent for their clubs but you always felt that despite times of brilliance internationally that they could have done so much more.

being voted Englands best player at 2-3 of the major tournaments,


Yeh, and Messi was the best player at the last World Cup! Just shows where a bit of hype can get you!