I enjoyed the race immensely and youu have to give it to. Alonso, keeping Hamilton behind was superb. Ricciardo also drove a phenomenal race as did Hamilton.
Hamilton's decision to not slow down for Nico saved Mercedes from a barrage of questions and after quali, it would have been a PR nightmare.
Rosberg compromised his own race by not being able to overtake Vergne and it must play on his mind that he was beaten by a guy who started from pitlane.
Mercede need to look at the QA/QC procedures on Hamilton's side of the garage becase the constant failures are beginning to look suspicious.
I personally wold be grateful if Bernie left the sport alone. We have just started a new era, let it settle. I personally would like the cars to go faster but do not want the blown diffuser back. I want the cars sliding around so that the drivers who are more talented can flourish as seenwith Ricciardo this season.
Long may it continue
"the issues do seem to crop up on Hamilton's car a lot more often than Rosberg..."
Only if you look at this season. Last season it was Rosberg who had the majority of failures, the season before that it was Schumacher who suffered. Not to mention that this season is barely half done; it could change drastically.
I also don't remember these conspiracy theories in 2008, where Hamilton didn't have any mechanical retirements, whilst his team-mate had 4.
How many of Rosberg's issues last season occurred in practice or quali?
Onto relatively irrelevant news, I do hope Susie Wolff is given a chance at a race seat before 2016, she has paved the way for a revolution in Formula One for female drivers, not just by herself but the late Maria De Villota and other successful lady's stories in motorsport such as Danica Patrick! I personally want to see this chance given
---------------------------------------------
THis point i am strongly against. If susie is quick enough, for me, she should be racing, however she shouldnt be in the car on the basis of whats between her legs, and that goes for the guys as well. If your fast enough your good enough, no further questions your honour.
i strongly deny there is a conspiracy against hamilton, nor do i deny that in previous seasons hamilton may of had his luck. However, at mclaren and at Merc, recently, his bad luck has been so costly to his campaign. Theirs no doubt he would be ahead of nico if he had equal levels of bad luck.
Look, this isnt a "please feel sorry for Hamilton" campaign. Its a message to those that dont like hamilton or respect his ability to say that, he is competing with a very capable driver in equal machinery, despite many setbacks, so the guy clearly has masses of ability, and frankly not rating hamilton in the top 3 drivers on the grid is dense!
Well in response to the previous comment, I do agree mostly, I may have worded it wrong in the OP but I do think Women should be in Formula One provided that they are fast enough, I'd rather see a female Formula One driver over a pay-driver anyday!
My top 3 F1 drivers of the current grid, I'd have to say:
Hamilton - Despite a lot of criticisms lately, he's proven them wrong, a big one being fuel consumption when compared to his aggressive driving style, somehow he's consistently using the least, if not then he's there or there abouts!
Alonso: He has become a very likeable person to me lately for god knows what reason, I used to hate him. But his persistence and his effort he is always giving, combined with his experience to getting results like yesterday in a car nowhere near that good, puts him in the top 3 for me.
- Ricciardo: He's the new boy coming into Sebastian Vettel's team and outscoring him consistently to the extent that RBR are asking Vettel to move over, now Im not going to be a Vettel basher here but it does suggest that the majority of Vettel's success over recent years was down to the car.
I know I'll get a lot of criticism for saying that, sorry guys.
I think it is clear that Seb managed what he did because of the car. Even in the lower formulae he never did anything outstanding.
Alonso was right, those 4 titles will not mean a lot if he cannot replicate similar performances elsewhere. Not sure Ferrari want him anymore as well. So he'll hope Hamilton leaves Mercedes.
The problem though is that Mercedes do not have the EBD, so one wonders if he'll manage there
Ricciardo has exceeded all expectations this season. Vettel hasn't been at his best, but he's still a top driver, which makes what Ricciardo is doing even more impressive. The question is, can he keep it up? On the evidence provided so far, he can.
This might be a bold prediction, and despite what I said earlier, but given Vettel's history of finishing very strongly, I'm expecting him to finish above Ricciardo come the end of the season.
IMO Alonso's reputation has been formed more than any other driver currently on the grid for his ability to get the most out of some very average cars, more so than his 2 WC.
Vettel's reputation could be somewhat comprimised by similar circumstances.
Ricciardo is quite clearly a gifted driver, but if Vettel is as good as 4xWC should suggest then something is quite clearly amiss with his very average performances this season in comparison to his teammate.
For the last few seasons all I have heard is that Vettel is the most intelligent driver on the grid (or words similar to that), and I want to know where is that intelligence that has seen him trumped by his vastly less experienced team mate.
That is a question that will be answered over many years, not just 11 races.
For the last few seasons all I have heard is that Vettel is the most intelligent driver on the grid (or words similar to that), and I want to know where is that intelligence that has seen him trumped by his vastly less experienced team mate.
=============
Most intelligent, tyre master, feel for the car, reads conditions better than others, smarter, superb strategist, second coming of Senna, qualifying master elite, etc.
It was ridiculous the amount of stuff people said and when we said, tone it down a bit as we are not really sure how good he is, we were accused of being anti-seb, anti-germany, etc.
Been watching this sport for 30 years, you can generally tell when someone special is behind the wheel of a race car, just like it is blatantly obvious with Ricciardo, Bottas and Bianchi.
Those 3 guys will dominate this sport in due course
There is simply no rational mindset that could rate Hamilton as a good driver, but not Vettel. If you believe Vettel isn't an all-time great, but Hamilton is, then you are objectively wrong.
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 12 minutes ago
There is simply no rational mindset that could rate Hamilton as a good driver, but not Vettel. If you believe Vettel isn't an all-time great, but Hamilton is, then you are objectively wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To the best of my knowledge not one single person on this forum has ever claimed that Lewis Hamilton is an all time great.
To the best of my knowledge not one single person on this forum has described Vettel as merely good.
So who on earth are you complaining about?
Wtcbu - haha spot on, who's he on about?
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
Greg - Yeah, I fully understand why people like Hamilton, find him entertaining or think he's a great driver. I take absolutely no issue with your analysis of him.
Just some of his fans overhype him to ridiculous proportions, whilst at the same time belittle the achievements of others. I really don't understand that mindset. Like Hamilton because of what he is - don't try and pretend he's something he's not.
Reminds me when Rangers fans used to claim their team was "the most successful in the world" and other such nonsense, whilst they'd also pretend that Celtic were terrible. I think part of it is glory-hunting; trying to bask in reflected success.
Not really hobo, there aren't any who glorify him beyond what he is. What he is is a wdc winning, extremely quick, pure bred racer, with circa 30 wins, numerous excellent drives from difficult positions, great qualy record, and will be remembered as a great, whether u like it or not
comment by Greg Rugby And F1 (U4521)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lets not get to carried away with silverstone and monaco 08 gregg when anything resembling a damp track let alone a drop of rain was like garlic to a vampire to the ferrari chassis that year so in effect the
mp4 -23 had nobody to beat that year on a damp or wet track and lewis was very lucky to win monaco anyway that year -
----------- not quite sure where you are coming from with
bahrain 2010 ?
If anything the argument against hamilton is that he does too many great races along with the odd disaster, rather than having masses of consistency. His ability to drive a great race is his a achilles
Martial loves a simile!
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 5 minutes ago
Not really hobo, there aren't any who glorify him beyond what he is. What he is is a wdc winning, extremely quick, pure bred racer, with circa 30 wins, numerous excellent drives from difficult positions, great qualy record, and will be remembered as a great, whether u like it or not
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fluck me bw -- take it you never visited the bbc 606 before it went belly up -
-------- however in fairness most of the fairy land fantasy"s that was wrote about lewis on there was obviously penned by schoolkids that looked up to him as a hero type character so had to be taken with a shuvel full of fairy dust that it deserved --
Drunken Hobo (U7360) You never seem willing to substantiate any of the posts that you make.
You give me the impression that you spend most of your time reading remarks posted on other meaningless forums and instead of responding directly to those posts that you disagree with on the forum that made those posts, you dash over to this forum and falsely accuse us of having views which we clearly do not have.
What exactly is your personal agenda regarding this particular F1 forum?
If you disagree with a point made on another forum then why are you responding to it on here?
I think the decent thing for you to do is to express your counter views directly to the thread that made them. Do you agree?
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Greg Rugby And F1 (U4521)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lets not get to carried away with silverstone and monaco 08 gregg when anything resembling a damp track let alone a drop of rain was like garlic to a vampire to the ferrari chassis that year so in effect the
mp4 -23 had nobody to beat that year on a damp or wet track and lewis was very lucky to win monaco anyway that year -
----------- not quite sure where you are coming from with
bahrain 2010 ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone should have told Kovalainen about that Mclaren being a supreme car in the wet that year
Drunken Hobo, I meant to say Bahrain 2014 sorry, typo there. I do agree the Ferrari chassis was not very good with the odd spit of rain in 2008, but it didn't stop Massa from claiming a bloody good victory at Brazil in the final race. In your regards to Monaco, yeah he was very lucky to win it, and that's why it's gold to me, despite hitting the wall he came through to win it, all opinions I suppose. Glad to see a constructive debate growing on here for once! Makes for a friendly place to come and discuss.
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Greg Rugby And F1 (U4521)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lets not get to carried away with silverstone and monaco 08 gregg when anything resembling a damp track let alone a drop of rain was like garlic to a vampire to the ferrari chassis that year so in effect the
mp4 -23 had nobody to beat that year on a damp or wet track and lewis was very lucky to win monaco anyway that year -
----------- not quite sure where you are coming from with
bahrain 2010 ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone should have told Kovalainen about that Mclaren being a supreme car in the wet that year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
someone should have told mclaren that kovalainen was about as much use as a paper wellington boot
Another worldie of a simile
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posted on 28/7/14
I enjoyed the race immensely and youu have to give it to. Alonso, keeping Hamilton behind was superb. Ricciardo also drove a phenomenal race as did Hamilton.
Hamilton's decision to not slow down for Nico saved Mercedes from a barrage of questions and after quali, it would have been a PR nightmare.
Rosberg compromised his own race by not being able to overtake Vergne and it must play on his mind that he was beaten by a guy who started from pitlane.
Mercede need to look at the QA/QC procedures on Hamilton's side of the garage becase the constant failures are beginning to look suspicious.
I personally wold be grateful if Bernie left the sport alone. We have just started a new era, let it settle. I personally would like the cars to go faster but do not want the blown diffuser back. I want the cars sliding around so that the drivers who are more talented can flourish as seenwith Ricciardo this season.
Long may it continue
posted on 28/7/14
"the issues do seem to crop up on Hamilton's car a lot more often than Rosberg..."
Only if you look at this season. Last season it was Rosberg who had the majority of failures, the season before that it was Schumacher who suffered. Not to mention that this season is barely half done; it could change drastically.
I also don't remember these conspiracy theories in 2008, where Hamilton didn't have any mechanical retirements, whilst his team-mate had 4.
posted on 28/7/14
How many of Rosberg's issues last season occurred in practice or quali?
posted on 28/7/14
Onto relatively irrelevant news, I do hope Susie Wolff is given a chance at a race seat before 2016, she has paved the way for a revolution in Formula One for female drivers, not just by herself but the late Maria De Villota and other successful lady's stories in motorsport such as Danica Patrick! I personally want to see this chance given
---------------------------------------------
THis point i am strongly against. If susie is quick enough, for me, she should be racing, however she shouldnt be in the car on the basis of whats between her legs, and that goes for the guys as well. If your fast enough your good enough, no further questions your honour.
i strongly deny there is a conspiracy against hamilton, nor do i deny that in previous seasons hamilton may of had his luck. However, at mclaren and at Merc, recently, his bad luck has been so costly to his campaign. Theirs no doubt he would be ahead of nico if he had equal levels of bad luck.
Look, this isnt a "please feel sorry for Hamilton" campaign. Its a message to those that dont like hamilton or respect his ability to say that, he is competing with a very capable driver in equal machinery, despite many setbacks, so the guy clearly has masses of ability, and frankly not rating hamilton in the top 3 drivers on the grid is dense!
posted on 28/7/14
Well in response to the previous comment, I do agree mostly, I may have worded it wrong in the OP but I do think Women should be in Formula One provided that they are fast enough, I'd rather see a female Formula One driver over a pay-driver anyday!
My top 3 F1 drivers of the current grid, I'd have to say:
Hamilton - Despite a lot of criticisms lately, he's proven them wrong, a big one being fuel consumption when compared to his aggressive driving style, somehow he's consistently using the least, if not then he's there or there abouts!
Alonso: He has become a very likeable person to me lately for god knows what reason, I used to hate him. But his persistence and his effort he is always giving, combined with his experience to getting results like yesterday in a car nowhere near that good, puts him in the top 3 for me.
- Ricciardo: He's the new boy coming into Sebastian Vettel's team and outscoring him consistently to the extent that RBR are asking Vettel to move over, now Im not going to be a Vettel basher here but it does suggest that the majority of Vettel's success over recent years was down to the car.
I know I'll get a lot of criticism for saying that, sorry guys.
posted on 28/7/14
I think it is clear that Seb managed what he did because of the car. Even in the lower formulae he never did anything outstanding.
Alonso was right, those 4 titles will not mean a lot if he cannot replicate similar performances elsewhere. Not sure Ferrari want him anymore as well. So he'll hope Hamilton leaves Mercedes.
The problem though is that Mercedes do not have the EBD, so one wonders if he'll manage there
posted on 28/7/14
Ricciardo has exceeded all expectations this season. Vettel hasn't been at his best, but he's still a top driver, which makes what Ricciardo is doing even more impressive. The question is, can he keep it up? On the evidence provided so far, he can.
This might be a bold prediction, and despite what I said earlier, but given Vettel's history of finishing very strongly, I'm expecting him to finish above Ricciardo come the end of the season.
posted on 28/7/14
IMO Alonso's reputation has been formed more than any other driver currently on the grid for his ability to get the most out of some very average cars, more so than his 2 WC.
Vettel's reputation could be somewhat comprimised by similar circumstances.
Ricciardo is quite clearly a gifted driver, but if Vettel is as good as 4xWC should suggest then something is quite clearly amiss with his very average performances this season in comparison to his teammate.
For the last few seasons all I have heard is that Vettel is the most intelligent driver on the grid (or words similar to that), and I want to know where is that intelligence that has seen him trumped by his vastly less experienced team mate.
posted on 28/7/14
That is a question that will be answered over many years, not just 11 races.
posted on 28/7/14
For the last few seasons all I have heard is that Vettel is the most intelligent driver on the grid (or words similar to that), and I want to know where is that intelligence that has seen him trumped by his vastly less experienced team mate.
=============
Most intelligent, tyre master, feel for the car, reads conditions better than others, smarter, superb strategist, second coming of Senna, qualifying master elite, etc.
It was ridiculous the amount of stuff people said and when we said, tone it down a bit as we are not really sure how good he is, we were accused of being anti-seb, anti-germany, etc.
Been watching this sport for 30 years, you can generally tell when someone special is behind the wheel of a race car, just like it is blatantly obvious with Ricciardo, Bottas and Bianchi.
Those 3 guys will dominate this sport in due course
posted on 28/7/14
There is simply no rational mindset that could rate Hamilton as a good driver, but not Vettel. If you believe Vettel isn't an all-time great, but Hamilton is, then you are objectively wrong.
posted on 28/7/14
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 12 minutes ago
There is simply no rational mindset that could rate Hamilton as a good driver, but not Vettel. If you believe Vettel isn't an all-time great, but Hamilton is, then you are objectively wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To the best of my knowledge not one single person on this forum has ever claimed that Lewis Hamilton is an all time great.
To the best of my knowledge not one single person on this forum has described Vettel as merely good.
So who on earth are you complaining about?
posted on 28/7/14
Wtcbu - haha spot on, who's he on about?
posted on 28/7/14
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
posted on 28/7/14
Hungary 2014
posted on 28/7/14
Greg - Yeah, I fully understand why people like Hamilton, find him entertaining or think he's a great driver. I take absolutely no issue with your analysis of him.
Just some of his fans overhype him to ridiculous proportions, whilst at the same time belittle the achievements of others. I really don't understand that mindset. Like Hamilton because of what he is - don't try and pretend he's something he's not.
Reminds me when Rangers fans used to claim their team was "the most successful in the world" and other such nonsense, whilst they'd also pretend that Celtic were terrible. I think part of it is glory-hunting; trying to bask in reflected success.
posted on 28/7/14
Not really hobo, there aren't any who glorify him beyond what he is. What he is is a wdc winning, extremely quick, pure bred racer, with circa 30 wins, numerous excellent drives from difficult positions, great qualy record, and will be remembered as a great, whether u like it or not
posted on 28/7/14
comment by Greg Rugby And F1 (U4521)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lets not get to carried away with silverstone and monaco 08 gregg when anything resembling a damp track let alone a drop of rain was like garlic to a vampire to the ferrari chassis that year so in effect the
mp4 -23 had nobody to beat that year on a damp or wet track and lewis was very lucky to win monaco anyway that year -
----------- not quite sure where you are coming from with
bahrain 2010 ?
posted on 28/7/14
If anything the argument against hamilton is that he does too many great races along with the odd disaster, rather than having masses of consistency. His ability to drive a great race is his a achilles
Martial loves a simile!
posted on 28/7/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 5 minutes ago
Not really hobo, there aren't any who glorify him beyond what he is. What he is is a wdc winning, extremely quick, pure bred racer, with circa 30 wins, numerous excellent drives from difficult positions, great qualy record, and will be remembered as a great, whether u like it or not
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fluck me bw -- take it you never visited the bbc 606 before it went belly up -
-------- however in fairness most of the fairy land fantasy"s that was wrote about lewis on there was obviously penned by schoolkids that looked up to him as a hero type character so had to be taken with a shuvel full of fairy dust that it deserved --
posted on 28/7/14
Drunken Hobo (U7360) You never seem willing to substantiate any of the posts that you make.
You give me the impression that you spend most of your time reading remarks posted on other meaningless forums and instead of responding directly to those posts that you disagree with on the forum that made those posts, you dash over to this forum and falsely accuse us of having views which we clearly do not have.
What exactly is your personal agenda regarding this particular F1 forum?
If you disagree with a point made on another forum then why are you responding to it on here?
I think the decent thing for you to do is to express your counter views directly to the thread that made them. Do you agree?
posted on 28/7/14
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Greg Rugby And F1 (U4521)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lets not get to carried away with silverstone and monaco 08 gregg when anything resembling a damp track let alone a drop of rain was like garlic to a vampire to the ferrari chassis that year so in effect the
mp4 -23 had nobody to beat that year on a damp or wet track and lewis was very lucky to win monaco anyway that year -
----------- not quite sure where you are coming from with
bahrain 2010 ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone should have told Kovalainen about that Mclaren being a supreme car in the wet that year
posted on 28/7/14
Drunken Hobo, I meant to say Bahrain 2014 sorry, typo there. I do agree the Ferrari chassis was not very good with the odd spit of rain in 2008, but it didn't stop Massa from claiming a bloody good victory at Brazil in the final race. In your regards to Monaco, yeah he was very lucky to win it, and that's why it's gold to me, despite hitting the wall he came through to win it, all opinions I suppose. Glad to see a constructive debate growing on here for once! Makes for a friendly place to come and discuss.
posted on 28/7/14
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Greg Rugby And F1 (U4521)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Drunken Hobo, I would say Lewis Hamilton is a great, but he's not an all-time great, yet. He will be when he retires, and he will always be known as a real racer and not just a driver, what I love about Hamilton is the entertainment he brings to races, he shows some moments of complete stupidity (Canada 2008, Singapore 2010, Canada 2011) but he produces moments of absolute gold (Silverstone 2008, Monaco 2008, Bahrain 2010).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lets not get to carried away with silverstone and monaco 08 gregg when anything resembling a damp track let alone a drop of rain was like garlic to a vampire to the ferrari chassis that year so in effect the
mp4 -23 had nobody to beat that year on a damp or wet track and lewis was very lucky to win monaco anyway that year -
----------- not quite sure where you are coming from with
bahrain 2010 ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone should have told Kovalainen about that Mclaren being a supreme car in the wet that year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
someone should have told mclaren that kovalainen was about as much use as a paper wellington boot
posted on 28/7/14
Another worldie of a simile
Page 1 of 2