Mata and RVP where both impulse buys really. RVP obviously won us the league in 2013 but it also caused problems that I believe are still around now.
Of course they need money to remain a top side. Milan were usually the biggest spenders in Italy, and they still didn't do much in the league. They sold their two best players, Zlatan and Silva, because the offer on the table was too good to turn down and they couldn't afford to buy the players of the right quality to replace them.
Their reckless spending put them in this position and now Silvio isn't funding the team anymore. There's no comparison with us because we've got money to replace the players that have left. We've just been crap in the market. They've been crap in the market and don't have the money, hence their position and reason for getting inexperienced managers like Seedorf and Inzaghi who will command a lower wage.
Our position is very unique, especially in this era of football. I cannot remember a club of our standing and with our financial muscle declining so rapidly in personnel and as a team.
How many clubs that can go and spend the money we have since Fergie left have gone from first to seventh? I cannot think of one.
I do agree with the last paragraph, however.
What I mean is that I don't want us to get to the point where we start accepting that we can't get top players and go for the Vlaars and Williams of this world.
Milan don't have a choice and are now sh-t, we on the other hand have a sh-t load of money and can't seem to get these top players which clearly shows there is something majorly wrong at our club in terms of transfers.
I agree. It's hard to analyse where the problem lies. In terms of the past dealings in the window, that's all on Fergie.
But this summer is a difficult one because we cannot gauge the effect of dropping out of the CL and how it is effecting our transfer business.
It's all well and good saying we have money and that Woodward is clueless, but if top players don't want to join us for a number of reasons there's nothing we can do.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 34 seconds ago
I agree. It's hard to analyse where the problem lies. In terms of the past dealings in the window, that's all on Fergie.
But this summer is a difficult one because we cannot gauge the effect of dropping out of the CL and how it is effecting our transfer business.
It's all well and good saying we have money and that Woodward is clueless, but if top players don't want to join us for a number of reasons there's nothing we can do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which top players don't want to join us? I'm not sure we've even inquired about all these top players, all the reports have been saying we are not interested, we never put any bids in etc.
At the end of the day, most players go to whichever club is willing to pay them the most hence why PSG, Chelsea, City, Monaco and some of the Russian clubs were all able to acquire top players when they weren't in the Champions League
What happened to all those players that Moyes claimed were interested in joining? Surely it was more than just Shaw and Herrera?
I know no CL doesn't help but I really think it is being used as a bigger excuse than it really is. Look at someone like Benetia, he;s never won a single trophy in his entire career, I'm sure the fact we have no CL for potentially 1 season isn't going to be the deciding factor, money talks.
We had to pay a premium in wages to get the better players. The thing is when we did it, Arsenal weren't really spending so there was only you and Chelsea to compete with in terms of that. Now, there are more choices available to players.
I don't think anything that has happened to you should feel that unexpected. The problem with such long stability is when that comes to an end, much like Liverpools boot room. Due to your financial income, I do see it as short term though. I think some thought you could replicate another Ferguson, but that was never going to happen (or another class of. 92 to be honest), football is very different now to when Ferguson took over.
I still fully believe that if your squad is set up in the right way and the belief comes back, you can get top four and top three given the right signings.
Kroos and Fabregas I reckon.
Just because those clubs did things doesn't mean we can do exactly the same. You've got to look at it from the current footballing landscape.
All the clubs you mentioned got their money at a time where there was room for them to break into the top bracket in their league, Chelsea were in the CL anyway. There's a good project there so the long and short term future was extremely attractive for the players.
Us, on the other hand, have had a rapid decline and fallen to 7th with Liverpool resurgent in the league there's a lot more competition at the top for us to simply buy our way to the top again - the short term looks quite precarious from the outside, so that can effect a player's thinking.
That's not to say every player will turn us down. As we do have lots of things that make us attractive and financially are in a good position to sell the project to the players.
But what if it's not enough? We've struggled to sign the very best at times when we were top dogs in England. Now we are no longer top dogs it makes it even more difficult.
But we shall see. As I said, it's hard to analyse the effect of dropping out of the CL.
Putting club preferences aside who do you think are currently a bigger appeal to players around the world?
United or Liverpool?
I genuinely feel that we are. I know we aren't in the CL like Liverpool but we are the biggest footballing brand in the entire world right now (bigger than Real), we can offer far bigger wages, we have bigger support and our recent history shows how big a team we are. Surely 1 bad season doesn't make that much of an effect?
I agree, but when did Liverpool ever go and sign the finest talent in Europe?
Look at their summer business, hardly inspiring, and that's with CL football.
What we have to remember is that if we are targeting the very best players in the world they are going to have competition for their signatures from the very best clubs in the world. Now obviously United are one of those, but there are a multitude of reasons as to why a player will choose a certain club.
People were pisssing and moaning about Fabregas going to Chelsea and us not doing anything about it, as if it were that simple.
If we take bias aside, Chelsea are the most attractive club in the premier league to players from around Europe - you only have to look at the names they've signed in the last ten years to see that. And please don't tell me it's all about money.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 41 seconds ago
I agree, but when did Liverpool ever go and sign the finest talent in Europe?
Look at their summer business, hardly inspiring, and that's with CL football.
What we have to remember is that if we are targeting the very best players in the world they are going to have competition for their signatures from the very best clubs in the world. Now obviously United are one of those, but there are a multitude of reasons as to why a player will choose a certain club.
People were pisssing and moaning about Fabregas going to Chelsea and us not doing anything about it, as if it were that simple.
If we take bias aside, Chelsea are the most attractive club in the premier league to players from around Europe - you only have to look at the names they've signed in the last ten years to see that. And please don't tell me it's all about money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Fabregas is a poor example, I'm pretty sure we weren't in for him this season
I agree, but I still think we could be doing better. I'm not sure how true the story was but in the Independent the other day it had a story about how the United board are scared to go in for di Maria because we're afraid of losing out to PSG. It's this small club mentality that isn't helping at all.
We need to start flexing our muscles, speaking to agents and players, telling them how we will be at the top again, offering wages that make players seriously think. Maybe we are but it definitely doesn't seem like it.
We couldn't get him when we were champions of England. We had no chance this summer. He always wanted London, and that's my point, it doesn't matter how big a club you are and how much money you pay if players can get similar things, or better, from other clubs and live in a city like London.
1982, yeah I agree. But we don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
We couldn't get him when we were champions of England. We had no chance this summer. He always wanted London, and that's my point, it doesn't matter how big a club you are and how much money you pay if players can get similar things, or better, from other clubs and live in a city like London.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we are only really competing with around 5-6 clubs and most of them already well stocked in terms of how many world class players they have. There are more than enough quality players available for us to sign which was the whole point of me creating this thread. The problem is that once again we appear to be dithering and haggling over a few million.
Depends on the player and the position. Madrid and Barca are usually well stocked but still go out and splash the cash on big players. We cannot compete with those two. Never really could.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 10 seconds ago
Depends on the player and the position. Madrid and Barca are usually well stocked but still go out and splash the cash on big players. We cannot compete with those two. Never really could.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Madrid and Barca have more than likely finished their spending for this summer as have many of the other top clubs I believe. I'm pretty sure if we tabled high enough bids for Benatia, Vidal and even Di Maria we could have gotten all 3 in by now
See this is where I disagree.
You really think for the remainder of the transfer window any central defender or central midfielder we could go for either Real or Barca may have an interest too?
Surely both are over stoked in those areas, Barca have bought 2 CBs and a CM already while both have spent a lot.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 21 seconds ago
See this is where I disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 21 seconds ago
See this is where I disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see why. Vidal by his own admission is clearly available and I don't think any other team is in for him, the same with Benatia although Bayern now appear to be interested ever since Martinez got injured. Di Maria's future has been called into question since the arrival of James Rodriguez and PSG who were apparently the only other team interested have pulled out due to FFP.
Aside from that I'm pretty sure we could get any one of Lars Bender, Khedira, Schneiderlin, Carvalho etc who are all available at the right price and would definitely improve us
"Aside from that I'm pretty sure we could get any one of Lars Bender, Khedira, Schneiderlin, Carvalho etc who are all available at the right price and would definitely improve us"
Totally agree, all 4 would improve us as well as being attainable without no CL having a drastic effect.
I think we could have gotten nearly any player in Europe bar Ronaldo, Bale or Messi if we offered enough money but obviously the bean counters at the club don't want to make that investment.
I'm pretty sure if any of us were the owners of United and we brought in these massive deals with Chevrolet and Adidas we'd easily be able to spare a couple of hundred million to bring in some top top players.
The Glazers obviously don't see things the same way. And it's a massive shame for us supporters.
We all slate Roman at Chelsea but at least he almost thinks like a fan.
1982, I wasn't talking about the remainder of this window, I was talking generally.
United have struggled to sign the world's elite players for years. Not sure why people think that's all of a sudden going to change because we dropped out of the CL.
The latter look more likely. I'm not convinced we'll get any of the other three. Vidal I actually think is the most likely.
But I think KingP1N is on about for the next 2 weeks. He has made a comprehensive list with some players I personally think would make vast improvements to the squad so what is stopping us?
I know it's not that simple but that's why you employ someone who is able to get deals done. I keep hearing too many excuses for what is one of the biggest football teams on the planet.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
United have struggled to sign the world's elite players for years. Not sure why people think that's all of a sudden going to change because we dropped out of the CL.
The latter look more likely. I'm not convinced we'll get any of the other three. Vidal I actually think is the most likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't think we have 'struggled', the question is really how many of these so called elite players have we seriously inquired about and tabled bids for. None us can know for certain we can only go by the reports and most of these football journos do not have a solitary clue between them
I know he was. I was making a general point about our inability to attract the very best players in Europe.
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List of Transfer Targets
Page 3 of 3
posted on 17/8/14
Mata and RVP where both impulse buys really. RVP obviously won us the league in 2013 but it also caused problems that I believe are still around now.
posted on 17/8/14
Of course they need money to remain a top side. Milan were usually the biggest spenders in Italy, and they still didn't do much in the league. They sold their two best players, Zlatan and Silva, because the offer on the table was too good to turn down and they couldn't afford to buy the players of the right quality to replace them.
Their reckless spending put them in this position and now Silvio isn't funding the team anymore. There's no comparison with us because we've got money to replace the players that have left. We've just been crap in the market. They've been crap in the market and don't have the money, hence their position and reason for getting inexperienced managers like Seedorf and Inzaghi who will command a lower wage.
Our position is very unique, especially in this era of football. I cannot remember a club of our standing and with our financial muscle declining so rapidly in personnel and as a team.
How many clubs that can go and spend the money we have since Fergie left have gone from first to seventh? I cannot think of one.
I do agree with the last paragraph, however.
posted on 17/8/14
What I mean is that I don't want us to get to the point where we start accepting that we can't get top players and go for the Vlaars and Williams of this world.
Milan don't have a choice and are now sh-t, we on the other hand have a sh-t load of money and can't seem to get these top players which clearly shows there is something majorly wrong at our club in terms of transfers.
posted on 17/8/14
I agree. It's hard to analyse where the problem lies. In terms of the past dealings in the window, that's all on Fergie.
But this summer is a difficult one because we cannot gauge the effect of dropping out of the CL and how it is effecting our transfer business.
It's all well and good saying we have money and that Woodward is clueless, but if top players don't want to join us for a number of reasons there's nothing we can do.
posted on 17/8/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 34 seconds ago
I agree. It's hard to analyse where the problem lies. In terms of the past dealings in the window, that's all on Fergie.
But this summer is a difficult one because we cannot gauge the effect of dropping out of the CL and how it is effecting our transfer business.
It's all well and good saying we have money and that Woodward is clueless, but if top players don't want to join us for a number of reasons there's nothing we can do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which top players don't want to join us? I'm not sure we've even inquired about all these top players, all the reports have been saying we are not interested, we never put any bids in etc.
At the end of the day, most players go to whichever club is willing to pay them the most hence why PSG, Chelsea, City, Monaco and some of the Russian clubs were all able to acquire top players when they weren't in the Champions League
posted on 17/8/14
What happened to all those players that Moyes claimed were interested in joining? Surely it was more than just Shaw and Herrera?
I know no CL doesn't help but I really think it is being used as a bigger excuse than it really is. Look at someone like Benetia, he;s never won a single trophy in his entire career, I'm sure the fact we have no CL for potentially 1 season isn't going to be the deciding factor, money talks.
posted on 17/8/14
We had to pay a premium in wages to get the better players. The thing is when we did it, Arsenal weren't really spending so there was only you and Chelsea to compete with in terms of that. Now, there are more choices available to players.
I don't think anything that has happened to you should feel that unexpected. The problem with such long stability is when that comes to an end, much like Liverpools boot room. Due to your financial income, I do see it as short term though. I think some thought you could replicate another Ferguson, but that was never going to happen (or another class of. 92 to be honest), football is very different now to when Ferguson took over.
I still fully believe that if your squad is set up in the right way and the belief comes back, you can get top four and top three given the right signings.
posted on 17/8/14
Kroos and Fabregas I reckon.
Just because those clubs did things doesn't mean we can do exactly the same. You've got to look at it from the current footballing landscape.
All the clubs you mentioned got their money at a time where there was room for them to break into the top bracket in their league, Chelsea were in the CL anyway. There's a good project there so the long and short term future was extremely attractive for the players.
Us, on the other hand, have had a rapid decline and fallen to 7th with Liverpool resurgent in the league there's a lot more competition at the top for us to simply buy our way to the top again - the short term looks quite precarious from the outside, so that can effect a player's thinking.
That's not to say every player will turn us down. As we do have lots of things that make us attractive and financially are in a good position to sell the project to the players.
But what if it's not enough? We've struggled to sign the very best at times when we were top dogs in England. Now we are no longer top dogs it makes it even more difficult.
But we shall see. As I said, it's hard to analyse the effect of dropping out of the CL.
posted on 17/8/14
Putting club preferences aside who do you think are currently a bigger appeal to players around the world?
United or Liverpool?
I genuinely feel that we are. I know we aren't in the CL like Liverpool but we are the biggest footballing brand in the entire world right now (bigger than Real), we can offer far bigger wages, we have bigger support and our recent history shows how big a team we are. Surely 1 bad season doesn't make that much of an effect?
posted on 17/8/14
I agree, but when did Liverpool ever go and sign the finest talent in Europe?
Look at their summer business, hardly inspiring, and that's with CL football.
What we have to remember is that if we are targeting the very best players in the world they are going to have competition for their signatures from the very best clubs in the world. Now obviously United are one of those, but there are a multitude of reasons as to why a player will choose a certain club.
People were pisssing and moaning about Fabregas going to Chelsea and us not doing anything about it, as if it were that simple.
If we take bias aside, Chelsea are the most attractive club in the premier league to players from around Europe - you only have to look at the names they've signed in the last ten years to see that. And please don't tell me it's all about money.
posted on 17/8/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 41 seconds ago
I agree, but when did Liverpool ever go and sign the finest talent in Europe?
Look at their summer business, hardly inspiring, and that's with CL football.
What we have to remember is that if we are targeting the very best players in the world they are going to have competition for their signatures from the very best clubs in the world. Now obviously United are one of those, but there are a multitude of reasons as to why a player will choose a certain club.
People were pisssing and moaning about Fabregas going to Chelsea and us not doing anything about it, as if it were that simple.
If we take bias aside, Chelsea are the most attractive club in the premier league to players from around Europe - you only have to look at the names they've signed in the last ten years to see that. And please don't tell me it's all about money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Fabregas is a poor example, I'm pretty sure we weren't in for him this season
posted on 17/8/14
I agree, but I still think we could be doing better. I'm not sure how true the story was but in the Independent the other day it had a story about how the United board are scared to go in for di Maria because we're afraid of losing out to PSG. It's this small club mentality that isn't helping at all.
We need to start flexing our muscles, speaking to agents and players, telling them how we will be at the top again, offering wages that make players seriously think. Maybe we are but it definitely doesn't seem like it.
posted on 17/8/14
We couldn't get him when we were champions of England. We had no chance this summer. He always wanted London, and that's my point, it doesn't matter how big a club you are and how much money you pay if players can get similar things, or better, from other clubs and live in a city like London.
1982, yeah I agree. But we don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes.
posted on 17/8/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
We couldn't get him when we were champions of England. We had no chance this summer. He always wanted London, and that's my point, it doesn't matter how big a club you are and how much money you pay if players can get similar things, or better, from other clubs and live in a city like London.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we are only really competing with around 5-6 clubs and most of them already well stocked in terms of how many world class players they have. There are more than enough quality players available for us to sign which was the whole point of me creating this thread. The problem is that once again we appear to be dithering and haggling over a few million.
posted on 17/8/14
Depends on the player and the position. Madrid and Barca are usually well stocked but still go out and splash the cash on big players. We cannot compete with those two. Never really could.
posted on 17/8/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 10 seconds ago
Depends on the player and the position. Madrid and Barca are usually well stocked but still go out and splash the cash on big players. We cannot compete with those two. Never really could.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Madrid and Barca have more than likely finished their spending for this summer as have many of the other top clubs I believe. I'm pretty sure if we tabled high enough bids for Benatia, Vidal and even Di Maria we could have gotten all 3 in by now
posted on 17/8/14
See this is where I disagree.
posted on 17/8/14
You really think for the remainder of the transfer window any central defender or central midfielder we could go for either Real or Barca may have an interest too?
Surely both are over stoked in those areas, Barca have bought 2 CBs and a CM already while both have spent a lot.
posted on 17/8/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 21 seconds ago
See this is where I disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 21 seconds ago
See this is where I disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see why. Vidal by his own admission is clearly available and I don't think any other team is in for him, the same with Benatia although Bayern now appear to be interested ever since Martinez got injured. Di Maria's future has been called into question since the arrival of James Rodriguez and PSG who were apparently the only other team interested have pulled out due to FFP.
Aside from that I'm pretty sure we could get any one of Lars Bender, Khedira, Schneiderlin, Carvalho etc who are all available at the right price and would definitely improve us
posted on 17/8/14
"Aside from that I'm pretty sure we could get any one of Lars Bender, Khedira, Schneiderlin, Carvalho etc who are all available at the right price and would definitely improve us"
Totally agree, all 4 would improve us as well as being attainable without no CL having a drastic effect.
posted on 17/8/14
I think we could have gotten nearly any player in Europe bar Ronaldo, Bale or Messi if we offered enough money but obviously the bean counters at the club don't want to make that investment.
I'm pretty sure if any of us were the owners of United and we brought in these massive deals with Chevrolet and Adidas we'd easily be able to spare a couple of hundred million to bring in some top top players.
The Glazers obviously don't see things the same way. And it's a massive shame for us supporters.
We all slate Roman at Chelsea but at least he almost thinks like a fan.
posted on 17/8/14
1982, I wasn't talking about the remainder of this window, I was talking generally.
United have struggled to sign the world's elite players for years. Not sure why people think that's all of a sudden going to change because we dropped out of the CL.
The latter look more likely. I'm not convinced we'll get any of the other three. Vidal I actually think is the most likely.
posted on 17/8/14
But I think KingP1N is on about for the next 2 weeks. He has made a comprehensive list with some players I personally think would make vast improvements to the squad so what is stopping us?
I know it's not that simple but that's why you employ someone who is able to get deals done. I keep hearing too many excuses for what is one of the biggest football teams on the planet.
posted on 17/8/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher - Maroudona (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
United have struggled to sign the world's elite players for years. Not sure why people think that's all of a sudden going to change because we dropped out of the CL.
The latter look more likely. I'm not convinced we'll get any of the other three. Vidal I actually think is the most likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't think we have 'struggled', the question is really how many of these so called elite players have we seriously inquired about and tabled bids for. None us can know for certain we can only go by the reports and most of these football journos do not have a solitary clue between them
posted on 17/8/14
I know he was. I was making a general point about our inability to attract the very best players in Europe.
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