I think Adrian Vettel was a clever team boss in recruiting the chocolate fireguard of Daniel Ricciardo for the sole purpose of making the Red Bull number 2 driver look bad. Probably the most successful decision ever made.
Most sensible teams recruit a chocolate fireguard to make the number 1 driver look good. So fair play to Red Bull for turning that around.
when you look in real fine detail it is just about impossible to find one single similarity in ability , speed and racing intelligence that lewis has with senna ,
senna obtained many , many , pole positions in uncompetitive cars ,and won many , many races in uncompetitive machinery , senna in his 10yr f1 career dominated or won nearly every wet race , dominated or won nearly every street circuit race , all of this very often in uncompetitive machinery -
--------- lewis as decent as he is has never remotely shown this level of ability -
lets also not forget that senna was an absolute master of the fine details of his machinery and how to make that machinery a quicker package , he was also a master at getting the absolute maximum from his tyres with the least amount of stress on the tyre ,
senna is also regarded as one of the most intelligent drivers ever to have sat in a F1 car and without a doubt was the most ruthless and uncompromising driver that ever drove an F1 car which he used to his maximum advantage on many levels during his career ,
lets also not forget that senna is widely held as the greatest driver of all time where as lewis is not even thought of as the best of the current generation -
------ as much as i try i cannot honestly think of one single comparison or similarity in the level of ability with lewis when compared to senna --------- sorry guys that is my honest opinion , no point in sugar coating it with phoney comparisons if there are none there in the first place
I'm sorry but you are posting BS, Senna could not develop a cold, mch less an F1 car. He rode the wheels off what he was given but technical ability in developing machiner ws a significant weakness
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm sorry but you are posting BS, Senna could not develop a cold, mch less an F1 car. He rode the wheels off what he was given but technical ability in developing machiner ws a significant weakness
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh dear --- wrong again manx , despite the fact you dont have the first clue about senna or his machinery -
listen to mika hakkinen , double world champion , mclaren 1993 test driver and senna"s team mate for end of 93 season talking about senna -
---- 4 min 45 sec mark on the clip -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_qHQHVyxyM
you can apologise to me anytime you like manx
Next we'll debate who was better in the world of football - Zinedine Zidane or Ryan Shawcross.
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 3 seconds ago
Next we'll debate who was better in the world of football - Zinedine Zidane or Ryan Shawcross.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
or muhammad ali or audley harrison
To be fair, Muhammad Ali was písh at football.
You post a team mate, praising a team mate. Do you know anything about unbiased opinions?
I'm sorry but I'm not buying that. You cannot expect me to change my mind based on a team mate who also complained about Senna.
Car development was a weakness of his and no bleating about it will change my mind
Senna was faster than Prost.
Ali was faster than Frazier.
George Best was better than the lot of them. FACT.
Give me the name of a team mate who out preformed his WDC team mate by almost four seconds on the thightest track in F1?
I may have spelt ' tightest ' wrong.
I can give you the name of a team mate who id decimating a 4 time WDC Irish.
Do you want that one
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 47 minutes ago
You post a team mate, praising a team mate. Do you know anything about unbiased opinions?
I'm sorry but I'm not buying that. You cannot expect me to change my mind based on a team mate who also complained about Senna.
Car development was a weakness of his and no bleating about it will change my mind
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh ---- what a surprise mika hakk an ex team mate of senna ( only 3 races by the way -- not that you would have known that ) mclaren test driver , 2 x world champion is praising senna"s testing abilities and because it offends your delicate sensibilities
------------ he is now lying -
------- you could"nt make this stuff up
Trying to compare them based on the machinery they have/had is a bit pointless due to the massive differences in F1 cars today compared to those of the 80's and 90's.
Hamilton is up there with the greats of F1 imo but he is nowhere near the levels of the legend that was Ayrton Senna.
Poor martial, your head is exploding because I do not believe Senna was great at developing cars. He really just was not. Driving ability was superb but car development was not the same.
You seem not to understand what a valuable source of information is which is unfortunate. You cannot take the word of a team mate as gospel for obvious reasons. Hakkinen did report however that Senna was upset when he outqualified him and in his typical petulant way threw his toys out of the pram.
I would also not suggest we talk about F1 knowledge as you are out of your depth and wiki will not save you
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 11 minutes ago
Poor martial, your head is exploding because I do not believe Senna was great at developing cars. He really just was not. Driving ability was superb but car development was not the same.
You seem not to understand what a valuable source of information is which is unfortunate. You cannot take the word of a team mate as gospel for obvious reasons. Hakkinen did report however that Senna was upset when he outqualified him and in his typical petulant way threw his toys out of the pram.
I would also not suggest we talk about F1 knowledge as you are out of your depth and wiki will not save you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh dear---- you are just digging a bigger hole for yourself with your non existent knowledge of senna --
( and we both know you dont have the first clue about his career or his machinery dont we manx )
what you forget everytime you just make up your fairytale garbage is i know your age and you would of been exactly 4 years of age when senna started his F1 career
----------- so tell me exactly how you would of known anything about his testing abilities at such a young age ?
however ----------- here is steve nichols who designed one of senna"s mclaren"s and worked with senna closely--
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97006
---------- is he also lying
listen , read and then fall deeper in the hole you have dug for yourself
----------- and then if you are man enough come back and apologise to me
I have not accused anyone of lying my good man, I am telling you that using team mates and team members to validate an opinion is stupid because they will be biased in favour of their team mates.
There is so much info available about F1 that you do not have to be on the track to learn about it. I have been to more races than you and saw Senna race more times than you.
Surely an F1 expert like yourself with your decades of experience will not suggest Monaco is a low downforce track.
Or suggest a rookie who had not driven an F1 car had an advantage of a double formula 1 champion?
You may have started watching F1 before I was born but your knowledge is akin to a toddler
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 8 minutes ago
I have not accused anyone of lying my good man, I am telling you that using team mates and team members to validate an opinion is stupid because they will be biased in favour of their team mates.
There is so much info available about F1 that you do not have to be on the track to learn about it. I have been to more races than you and saw Senna race more times than you.
Surely an F1 expert like yourself with your decades of experience will not suggest Monaco is a low downforce track.
Or suggest a rookie who had not driven an F1 car had an advantage of a double formula 1 champion?
You may have started watching F1 before I was born but your knowledge is akin to a toddler
----------------------------------------------------------------------
manx give it up mate -- we both know you are just making the first excuse that comes into your head -
---------- seriously -- explain to me how you know more about senna"s testing abilities than a 2 x WDC and a top F1 designer of over 20 yrs experience -
seriously manx think about what you are saying mate because you are just coming across as plain silly in pretending you know more about senna than the experts mentioned above -
---- there is no shame in admitting you dont know anything about a driver because of your young age at the time -
---------- pretending you did know more about a driver when you were 4 yrs old than a top designer and 2 x WDC that developed a car with senna is beyond laughable
I don't understand why martial artist (U9033) behaves in the way he does. It seems that he enjoys disrupting threads and provoking unnecessary arguments.
Why?
Every thread he joins (disrupts) ends up consisting of 200+ comments, mostly posted by martial artist (U9033) and him repeating the same argumentative post.
Why?
It has been pointed out to him that he has been wrong about almost all of the posts he has made about F1 but he refuses to acknowledge that.
Even Monaco “Low Downforce”
What?
He refused repeatedly to accept that he was wrong. So What credibility does he think he brings to this forum?
His posts consist mainly of him insulting people (gutless cowards) and then he sheepishly begs for forgiveness. Hi mate, good evening bruvver, etc.
He doesn't know the difference between the words “there” and “their” but feels competent enough to judge a persons intelligence.
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 12 minutes ago
I don't understand why martial artist (U9033) behaves in the way he does. It seems that he enjoys disrupting threads and provoking unnecessary arguments.
Why?
Every thread he joins (disrupts) ends up consisting of 200+ comments, mostly posted by martial artist (U9033) and him repeating the same argumentative post.
Why?
It has been pointed out to him that he has been wrong about almost all of the posts he has made about F1 but he refuses to acknowledge that.
Even Monaco “Low Downforce”
What?
He refused repeatedly to accept that he was wrong. So What credibility does he think he brings to this forum?
His posts consist mainly of him insulting people (gutless cowards) and then he sheepishly begs for forgiveness. Hi mate, good evening bruvver, etc.
He doesn't know the difference between the words “there” and “their” but feels competent enough to judge a persons intelligence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh dear -- what is your problem this time -- have i not bent over backwards to be civil and polite to you these last few weeks ?
read the thread -- it is nothing more than a good natured disagreement between mudd and myself disagreeing over a driver which is perfectedly normal on any forum -
how about making a point about the topic yourself ?
I tried to join the discussion but you two just seem intent on ruining this thread by continually arguing.
Pity, could have been a decent discussion.
It's like every article ends up the same way on here
Senna - Top 5 of all time
Hamilton - Top 20 of all time
Vettel - Top 1 of Paper Champions of all time
comment by Sid (U1868)
posted 3 minutes ago
I tried to join the discussion but you two just seem intent on ruining this thread by continually arguing.
Pity, could have been a decent discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
come on sid -- i am more than willing to discuss the topic with you mate or anybody else , ignore the rubbish and you will see that a decent discussion can be had when i am involved
How about Jim Clarke(sp) being superior to both?
He was the best of them all imo.
comment by Sid (U1868)
posted 9 hours, 36 minutes ago
How about Jim Clarke(sp) being superior to both?
He was the best of them all imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
very hard to know exactly how good clark actually was as he had maybe the best designer of all time designing all of his cars for him around his style at lotus for his complete F1 career which gave clark the continuity for a brilliant career , not to mention chapman treated clark like a 2nd son for his complete F1 career at lotus -
to be honest no other WDC was ever that lucky to have colin chapman in there corner for the duration of there career -- so clark is very unique in that respect and very hard to judge exactly how good he actually was ---
Sign in if you want to comment
Ayrton Hamilton or Lewis Senna....
Page 1 of 4
posted on 5/9/14
I think Adrian Vettel was a clever team boss in recruiting the chocolate fireguard of Daniel Ricciardo for the sole purpose of making the Red Bull number 2 driver look bad. Probably the most successful decision ever made.
Most sensible teams recruit a chocolate fireguard to make the number 1 driver look good. So fair play to Red Bull for turning that around.
posted on 6/9/14
when you look in real fine detail it is just about impossible to find one single similarity in ability , speed and racing intelligence that lewis has with senna ,
senna obtained many , many , pole positions in uncompetitive cars ,and won many , many races in uncompetitive machinery , senna in his 10yr f1 career dominated or won nearly every wet race , dominated or won nearly every street circuit race , all of this very often in uncompetitive machinery -
--------- lewis as decent as he is has never remotely shown this level of ability -
lets also not forget that senna was an absolute master of the fine details of his machinery and how to make that machinery a quicker package , he was also a master at getting the absolute maximum from his tyres with the least amount of stress on the tyre ,
senna is also regarded as one of the most intelligent drivers ever to have sat in a F1 car and without a doubt was the most ruthless and uncompromising driver that ever drove an F1 car which he used to his maximum advantage on many levels during his career ,
lets also not forget that senna is widely held as the greatest driver of all time where as lewis is not even thought of as the best of the current generation -
------ as much as i try i cannot honestly think of one single comparison or similarity in the level of ability with lewis when compared to senna --------- sorry guys that is my honest opinion , no point in sugar coating it with phoney comparisons if there are none there in the first place
posted on 6/9/14
I'm sorry but you are posting BS, Senna could not develop a cold, mch less an F1 car. He rode the wheels off what he was given but technical ability in developing machiner ws a significant weakness
posted on 6/9/14
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm sorry but you are posting BS, Senna could not develop a cold, mch less an F1 car. He rode the wheels off what he was given but technical ability in developing machiner ws a significant weakness
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh dear --- wrong again manx , despite the fact you dont have the first clue about senna or his machinery -
listen to mika hakkinen , double world champion , mclaren 1993 test driver and senna"s team mate for end of 93 season talking about senna -
---- 4 min 45 sec mark on the clip -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_qHQHVyxyM
you can apologise to me anytime you like manx
posted on 6/9/14
Next we'll debate who was better in the world of football - Zinedine Zidane or Ryan Shawcross.
posted on 6/9/14
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 3 seconds ago
Next we'll debate who was better in the world of football - Zinedine Zidane or Ryan Shawcross.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
or muhammad ali or audley harrison
posted on 6/9/14
To be fair, Muhammad Ali was písh at football.
posted on 6/9/14
You post a team mate, praising a team mate. Do you know anything about unbiased opinions?
I'm sorry but I'm not buying that. You cannot expect me to change my mind based on a team mate who also complained about Senna.
Car development was a weakness of his and no bleating about it will change my mind
posted on 6/9/14
Senna was faster than Prost.
Ali was faster than Frazier.
George Best was better than the lot of them. FACT.
posted on 6/9/14
Give me the name of a team mate who out preformed his WDC team mate by almost four seconds on the thightest track in F1?
posted on 6/9/14
I may have spelt ' tightest ' wrong.
posted on 6/9/14
I can give you the name of a team mate who id decimating a 4 time WDC Irish.
Do you want that one
posted on 6/9/14
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 47 minutes ago
You post a team mate, praising a team mate. Do you know anything about unbiased opinions?
I'm sorry but I'm not buying that. You cannot expect me to change my mind based on a team mate who also complained about Senna.
Car development was a weakness of his and no bleating about it will change my mind
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh ---- what a surprise mika hakk an ex team mate of senna ( only 3 races by the way -- not that you would have known that ) mclaren test driver , 2 x world champion is praising senna"s testing abilities and because it offends your delicate sensibilities
------------ he is now lying -
------- you could"nt make this stuff up
posted on 6/9/14
Trying to compare them based on the machinery they have/had is a bit pointless due to the massive differences in F1 cars today compared to those of the 80's and 90's.
Hamilton is up there with the greats of F1 imo but he is nowhere near the levels of the legend that was Ayrton Senna.
posted on 6/9/14
Poor martial, your head is exploding because I do not believe Senna was great at developing cars. He really just was not. Driving ability was superb but car development was not the same.
You seem not to understand what a valuable source of information is which is unfortunate. You cannot take the word of a team mate as gospel for obvious reasons. Hakkinen did report however that Senna was upset when he outqualified him and in his typical petulant way threw his toys out of the pram.
I would also not suggest we talk about F1 knowledge as you are out of your depth and wiki will not save you
posted on 6/9/14
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 11 minutes ago
Poor martial, your head is exploding because I do not believe Senna was great at developing cars. He really just was not. Driving ability was superb but car development was not the same.
You seem not to understand what a valuable source of information is which is unfortunate. You cannot take the word of a team mate as gospel for obvious reasons. Hakkinen did report however that Senna was upset when he outqualified him and in his typical petulant way threw his toys out of the pram.
I would also not suggest we talk about F1 knowledge as you are out of your depth and wiki will not save you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh dear---- you are just digging a bigger hole for yourself with your non existent knowledge of senna --
( and we both know you dont have the first clue about his career or his machinery dont we manx )
what you forget everytime you just make up your fairytale garbage is i know your age and you would of been exactly 4 years of age when senna started his F1 career
----------- so tell me exactly how you would of known anything about his testing abilities at such a young age ?
however ----------- here is steve nichols who designed one of senna"s mclaren"s and worked with senna closely--
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97006
---------- is he also lying
listen , read and then fall deeper in the hole you have dug for yourself
----------- and then if you are man enough come back and apologise to me
posted on 6/9/14
I have not accused anyone of lying my good man, I am telling you that using team mates and team members to validate an opinion is stupid because they will be biased in favour of their team mates.
There is so much info available about F1 that you do not have to be on the track to learn about it. I have been to more races than you and saw Senna race more times than you.
Surely an F1 expert like yourself with your decades of experience will not suggest Monaco is a low downforce track.
Or suggest a rookie who had not driven an F1 car had an advantage of a double formula 1 champion?
You may have started watching F1 before I was born but your knowledge is akin to a toddler
posted on 6/9/14
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 8 minutes ago
I have not accused anyone of lying my good man, I am telling you that using team mates and team members to validate an opinion is stupid because they will be biased in favour of their team mates.
There is so much info available about F1 that you do not have to be on the track to learn about it. I have been to more races than you and saw Senna race more times than you.
Surely an F1 expert like yourself with your decades of experience will not suggest Monaco is a low downforce track.
Or suggest a rookie who had not driven an F1 car had an advantage of a double formula 1 champion?
You may have started watching F1 before I was born but your knowledge is akin to a toddler
----------------------------------------------------------------------
manx give it up mate -- we both know you are just making the first excuse that comes into your head -
---------- seriously -- explain to me how you know more about senna"s testing abilities than a 2 x WDC and a top F1 designer of over 20 yrs experience -
seriously manx think about what you are saying mate because you are just coming across as plain silly in pretending you know more about senna than the experts mentioned above -
---- there is no shame in admitting you dont know anything about a driver because of your young age at the time -
---------- pretending you did know more about a driver when you were 4 yrs old than a top designer and 2 x WDC that developed a car with senna is beyond laughable
posted on 6/9/14
I don't understand why martial artist (U9033) behaves in the way he does. It seems that he enjoys disrupting threads and provoking unnecessary arguments.
Why?
Every thread he joins (disrupts) ends up consisting of 200+ comments, mostly posted by martial artist (U9033) and him repeating the same argumentative post.
Why?
It has been pointed out to him that he has been wrong about almost all of the posts he has made about F1 but he refuses to acknowledge that.
Even Monaco “Low Downforce”
What?
He refused repeatedly to accept that he was wrong. So What credibility does he think he brings to this forum?
His posts consist mainly of him insulting people (gutless cowards) and then he sheepishly begs for forgiveness. Hi mate, good evening bruvver, etc.
He doesn't know the difference between the words “there” and “their” but feels competent enough to judge a persons intelligence.
posted on 6/9/14
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 12 minutes ago
I don't understand why martial artist (U9033) behaves in the way he does. It seems that he enjoys disrupting threads and provoking unnecessary arguments.
Why?
Every thread he joins (disrupts) ends up consisting of 200+ comments, mostly posted by martial artist (U9033) and him repeating the same argumentative post.
Why?
It has been pointed out to him that he has been wrong about almost all of the posts he has made about F1 but he refuses to acknowledge that.
Even Monaco “Low Downforce”
What?
He refused repeatedly to accept that he was wrong. So What credibility does he think he brings to this forum?
His posts consist mainly of him insulting people (gutless cowards) and then he sheepishly begs for forgiveness. Hi mate, good evening bruvver, etc.
He doesn't know the difference between the words “there” and “their” but feels competent enough to judge a persons intelligence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh dear -- what is your problem this time -- have i not bent over backwards to be civil and polite to you these last few weeks ?
read the thread -- it is nothing more than a good natured disagreement between mudd and myself disagreeing over a driver which is perfectedly normal on any forum -
how about making a point about the topic yourself ?
posted on 6/9/14
I tried to join the discussion but you two just seem intent on ruining this thread by continually arguing.
Pity, could have been a decent discussion.
posted on 6/9/14
It's like every article ends up the same way on here
Senna - Top 5 of all time
Hamilton - Top 20 of all time
Vettel - Top 1 of Paper Champions of all time
posted on 6/9/14
comment by Sid (U1868)
posted 3 minutes ago
I tried to join the discussion but you two just seem intent on ruining this thread by continually arguing.
Pity, could have been a decent discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
come on sid -- i am more than willing to discuss the topic with you mate or anybody else , ignore the rubbish and you will see that a decent discussion can be had when i am involved
posted on 6/9/14
How about Jim Clarke(sp) being superior to both?
He was the best of them all imo.
posted on 7/9/14
comment by Sid (U1868)
posted 9 hours, 36 minutes ago
How about Jim Clarke(sp) being superior to both?
He was the best of them all imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
very hard to know exactly how good clark actually was as he had maybe the best designer of all time designing all of his cars for him around his style at lotus for his complete F1 career which gave clark the continuity for a brilliant career , not to mention chapman treated clark like a 2nd son for his complete F1 career at lotus -
to be honest no other WDC was ever that lucky to have colin chapman in there corner for the duration of there career -- so clark is very unique in that respect and very hard to judge exactly how good he actually was ---
Page 1 of 4