It's been going for years, albeit they don't normally interfere with commercial flight paths. It died off a bit when the Berlin wall came down and the Russians didn't have a pot to pi ss in but Putin's started flexing his muscles again over NATO's response to his idiocy in Ukraine amongst other things.

People say idiocy in Ukraine, not really true.

The Ukranian government were illegally overthrown. The EU and the West recognised them as it suits them. Yet when Crimea have a democratic election, where the majority are clearly pro-Russia, they are not recognised.

We hear one thing over here through the media, fact is both sides are as bad as each other.

the Cold War isn't as cold as one would have wished.

I notice the West (USA really) and OPEC are happy to drive down oil prices while this conflict goes on. It's like a proper cold war, not in the Sun or anything

Manc

It's true to say that the population of the Crimea is majority Russian but Crimea falls within the borders of Ukraine. If the Ukrainians decide to overthrow their own government, elected or otherwise, surely that's an issue for them to resolve internally, not Russia's problem.

if russians live there then it is russias problem

To extricate ethnic Russians from a dangerous situation perhaps, but to invade?

comment by Harrys accountant (U1141)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's true to say that the population of the Crimea is majority Russian but Crimea falls within the borders of Ukraine. If the Ukrainians decide to overthrow their own government, elected or otherwise, surely that's an issue for them to resolve internally, not Russia's problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So you believe Ukraine should decide Crimeas fate?

Do you also think England should've decided Scotland's fate rather than a referendum?

Scotland is a country in it's on right, I believe Crimea is a region of a larger country therefore that argument doesn't really hold up.

For the record, the Scots should and did decide for themselves.

What makes Scotland a country's in its own right then?

If the people don't feel they are part of a country then surely they should be heard. Otherwise how can Britain claim the Falklands aren't an Argentine territory?

comment by RenegadeOF (U9457)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Harrys accountant (U1141)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's true to say that the population of the Crimea is majority Russian but Crimea falls within the borders of Ukraine. If the Ukrainians decide to overthrow their own government, elected or otherwise, surely that's an issue for them to resolve internally, not Russia's problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So you believe Ukraine should decide Crimeas fate?

Do you also think England should've decided Scotland's fate rather than a referendum?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Scotland is a country in its own right, but linked to the other countries of the British Isles. I think absolutely England (plus Wales and Northern Ireland) should have had a big say in the referendum, as its fate had a potential impact on them.

Crimea, whatever the views and leanings of people who lived in the region, was still part of a sovereign state and was illegally annexed.

Not concerned about the Russian jets tbh as it's something that has been done before. More concerned about how the Ukraine situation is going to end. WW3 perhaps?
And if that did happen then we're all fooked

comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RenegadeOF (U9457)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Harrys accountant (U1141)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's true to say that the population of the Crimea is majority Russian but Crimea falls within the borders of Ukraine. If the Ukrainians decide to overthrow their own government, elected or otherwise, surely that's an issue for them to resolve internally, not Russia's problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So you believe Ukraine should decide Crimeas fate?

Do you also think England should've decided Scotland's fate rather than a referendum?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Scotland is a country in its own right, but linked to the other countries of the British Isles. I think absolutely England (plus Wales and Northern Ireland) should have had a big say in the referendum, as its fate had a potential impact on them.

Crimea, whatever the views and leanings of people who lived in the region, was still part of a sovereign state and was illegally annexed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Against democracy again. A very Russian view that.

Eh?

You're Russian in disguise.

Does Scotland not have it's own elected parliament, and recognised borders?

The Falklands are I believe recognised internationally with a few exceptions (Argentina in the main) as a British dependency for which the British are responsible for a number of functions, including defence. Had this not been the case it would have virtually impossible to obtain UN resolutions requiring Argentina to leave the islands.

I see where you're going with your argument but the fact remains that Crimea is internationally recognised as a region of Ukraine. As such the Russian intervention amounts to an invasion however you cut it.
We can go around the houses all night discussing Tibet, Taiwan and any number of places that you care to bring up.

It will still be an invasion.

You're making out that international recognition is what matters, but countries all have their own interests. So to say international recognition is what matters is a very fascist view. Suppressing the views of others.

And other than international recognition, you'venot provided any differences. The peopleof the Falklands voted, and they consider themselves a British colony. Scotland got its own parliament as that's what the people wanted, Scotland had a referendum as that's what people voted for.

Democratically, people should vote for what they want. Not have others decide for them.

You're Russian in disguise.

I think they've tried your "each to his own" idea.

It's called Somalia.

Pop over and see how you like it

What

Somalia was previously controlled by the British and France? Not sure, but a lot of the disarray in Africa is down to how European countries left them. The dissaray suits us, we can exploit the resources of their countries. Sad, but true.

So to point to a country like that as a response is laughable.

Pop over and see how you like it

---

Exactly.

We don't as there's nothing in it for us.

The middle east means oil.

This is about politics in Europe etc.

There are no bleeding hearts in government when they choose which wars to fight.

Renegade

This kind of thread always descends into an us and them situation.

We are all the same. It's propaganda.

That we are.

However African resources have been exploited for our benefit by our countries. So there is an us and them.

Indeed Renegade.

I was interested to hear that two thirds of the roads in Africa are unpaved, creating huge inefficiency in simply transporting goods from one country to another.

I'm no expert but I do know it's no good hating anyone or even making a judgement based on a news report. I've been at a 'violent' protest surrounded by hippy students and disabled people...

I've no idea why we're going after Russia though, I guess Putin upset someone.

I think people main problem with the situation in Crimea is that people are now dying.

Now I'm sure it's all very decent of Russia to cross into another country with lots of weapons and decide what Ukraine's borders are because a lot of the people there are Russian but the reality is people are dying and planes are getting shot down.

Was life so bad in the Ukraine before?

If we're honest we know Putin is a KGB mentalist who's turning Russia back into the USSR and retaking it's borders.