Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Footballers score more goals
Seriously? Yes due to fitness and medical improvements, top players play longer at the highest level, but that's all across the pitch, defenders too.
JImmy Greaves, goal scoring machine, when opposition players could kick chunks out of them without more than a word from the ref if it was REALLY severe. Today, Greaves would bag 40+ a season with the protection players get.
I'd wager the same in boxing, if you took top boxers from 50 years ago forwards now, they'd struggle against the top ones today who are stronger and fitter.
The thing is boxing a sport where natural toughness and upbringing plays a part in how you do in the ring. People don't struggle like they used to back in the day.
You have better technology/science these days, but I think that kinda makes it easier for guys.
Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.
comment by newWAYNEorder #iamrobb (U20092)
posted 5 hours, 17 minutes ago
Footballers score more goals
Seriously? Yes due to fitness and medical improvements, top players play longer at the highest level, but that's all across the pitch, defenders too.
JImmy Greaves, goal scoring machine, when opposition players could kick chunks out of them without more than a word from the ref if it was REALLY severe. Today, Greaves would bag 40+ a season with the protection players get.
I'd wager the same in boxing, if you took top boxers from 50 years ago forwards now, they'd struggle against the top ones today who are stronger and fitter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to score goals when the spend the night before drinking and smoking all the time, with little tactical awareness, no holding players, forwards not tackling back, and defenders selling themselves by diving in from 10 yards out.
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 14 hours, 52 minutes ago
Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This skill level and the conditioning of the boxers have improved, or is boxing separate from the sporting world
comment by The Guvnor III V.I.K-Give me a scotch.I'm... (U12889)
posted 14 hours, 43 minutes ago
As athletes boxers are just as conditioned if not more than those in the past. With nutritionists and new technology,supplements,training techniques you are bound to see a improvement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people disagree though.
comment by John Locke (U1204)
posted 4 hours, 34 minutes ago
The thing is boxing a sport where natural toughness and upbringing plays a part in how you do in the ring. People don't struggle like they used to back in the day.
You have better technology/science these days, but I think that kinda makes it easier for guys.
Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of people are in poverty from all over the world, more so today. But renowned tough fighters such as MAB came from well off educated backgrounds
D4 I have started a prediction thread on nsb, I will post fights every week but cba to do the points system
feel free to post your predos every week
"A lot of people are in poverty from all over the world, more so today. But renowned tough fighters such as MAB came from well off educated backgrounds"
==
true, there are exceptions. but generally I think if you come from a tough background and have been through struggle, it shows when you're in the ring. like I said there are exceptions and toughness can only get you so far.
also guys are more protected these days of course, they don't have to fight whoever is put in front of them, they have a different mentality from the old school guys. a fighter can duck someone and say 'he doesn't bring enough money to the table' and the fans will eat it up and accept. not many guys actually WANT to be the best, boxing is only a sport at amateur level unfortunately, at pro level it's become a business
The introduction of new rules and laws over the years has made boxing less dangerous and less brutal, so you can't really apply your reasoning to a combat sport.
Yes the fighters are better athletes, but being a better athlete doesn't necessarily make you tougher or a better fighter or a more vicious puncher.
comment by D4thincarnation (U2520)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 14 hours, 52 minutes ago
Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This skill level and the conditioning of the boxers have improved, or is boxing separate from the sporting world
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hadn't realised you was on about the skill level D4, I thought you was on about in general popularity etc.
I'm not sure how you can say the skill level hasn't improved and how you could prove it.
Think John hit the nail on the head when he said
'Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.'
Modern boxers, dontballow themselves to evolve as they do not put themselves at risk anymore. Yes the health risks, but I mean the professional risks of fighting the man just as good, or challenging your status. Until we get consistent matchups of the best fighting the best, devoid of politics we shall not see a clear cut evolution in boxing. We were on the cusp of it in the 80/s and 90s, but its tailed off. Imo of course.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2958416/Manny-Pacquiao-s-trainer-Freddie-Roach-working-game-plan-Floyd-Mayweather.html
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by John Locke (U1204)
posted 11 hours, 10 minutes ago
D4 I have started a prediction thread on nsb, I will post fights every week but cba to do the points system
feel free to post your predos every week
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will check it out.
It takes so much time doing the scores. I did make it more difficult for myself trying to be fair and true.
Will help if you really need it and I can spare the time
SRR used to fight a different guy every week. Now look at today at all the training that goes into peaking on a certain date.
How could be possibly be at peak performance all the time.
Also fought a lot poor opposition.
Today the best fighters fight the best. Sadly not in prize fights but in sparring.
Sparring today is much tougher than ever before and against world class opposition.
Look at all the world champions Pacquiao fought.
comment by The Guvnor III V.I.K-Give me a scotch.I'm... (U12889)
posted 6 hours, 26 minutes ago
The alphabet belts do not help boxing either. Get rid of all of them and create one belt per division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They bring money into the game, and the fans by those tickets and watch those shows.
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 10 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by D4thincarnation (U2520)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 14 hours, 52 minutes ago
Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This skill level and the conditioning of the boxers have improved, or is boxing separate from the sporting world
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hadn't realised you was on about the skill level D4, I thought you was on about in general popularity etc.
I'm not sure how you can say the skill level hasn't improved and how you could prove it.
Think John hit the nail on the head when he said
'Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point I was making, is that all other sports have improved, but for some reason boxing fans think the golden age happened long ago, though during that time boxing fans back then thought the same thing.
It just that boxing is difficult to measure and see the progress and that fans are too nostalgic.
"Will check it out.
It takes so much time doing the scores. I did make it more difficult for myself trying to be fair and true.
Will help if you really need it and I can spare the time "
===
Nah fack that lol, takes too much time to score. We'll see roughly who gets the most predictions anyway
If your on about conditioning etc then boxing will have improved, if your on about the sport itself then my opinion is that it has gone backwards for all the reasons listed above and by John.
The alphabet belts have wrecked a lot of divisions with a lot of daft rankings happening (i read the other day about one of the ranking bodies having someone in that was dead a few years back?????)
Manny and Floyd not happening (no blame lets not turn into one of them threads,) has hurt boxing more than people realise as it's an excuse for a lot of fans to go to MMA as at least there 'the big fights happen' add into the fact you've got the best not fighting each other in other divisions and a very very poor heavyweight division (that could be changing) and it adds up to a p!ss poor sport at the minute.
Manny and Floyd not happening (no blame lets not turn into one of them threads,) has hurt boxing more than people realise as it's an excuse for a lot of fans to go to MMA as at least there 'the big fights happen' add into the fact you've got the best not fighting each other in other divisions and a very very poor heavyweight division (that could be changing) and it adds up to a p!ss poor sport at the minute.
-------------------------------
Have to agree with a lot of this sadly. I think that there has been a definite decline in boxing in recent times. My personal interest in boxing has waned a lot over the last decade because there has been so little to get really excited about in any of the divisions.
Mayweather and Pacquiao not fighting each other has harmed the sport and will harm the sport further if they never fight (which I've said all along will never happen and I wait to be proved wrong).
I think I'm older than a few posters here and I remember the 80's and the 90's being a much better time for boxing with much more exciting fights.
I kind of feel sorry for the new generation watching boxing at the moment because you're not getting value for money or anything even close to it. Certainly not when compared to yesteryear.
Agree with Superbs statement. When there are so few major fights that grab the publics imagination,not just boxing fans then something is wrong namely the match-ups. The super 6 super middleweight fights were very good. Apart from promotional/tv issues you would think many other weights could follow suit.
If we are all being honest, boxing is sufferring a hangover from the heavyweight era. Say what you want but ppl want to see skilled beasts go toe to toe. Since the division died, the sport on the whole has taken a hit. Now it relies on the occasional BIG fight from at most 13 stone men, which isn't that big.
No glitzy heavyweight division, no sport IMO.
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Is Boxing the only Sport that has not
Page 1 of 2
posted on 17/2/15
Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
posted on 17/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 17/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/2/15
Footballers score more goals
Seriously? Yes due to fitness and medical improvements, top players play longer at the highest level, but that's all across the pitch, defenders too.
JImmy Greaves, goal scoring machine, when opposition players could kick chunks out of them without more than a word from the ref if it was REALLY severe. Today, Greaves would bag 40+ a season with the protection players get.
I'd wager the same in boxing, if you took top boxers from 50 years ago forwards now, they'd struggle against the top ones today who are stronger and fitter.
posted on 18/2/15
The thing is boxing a sport where natural toughness and upbringing plays a part in how you do in the ring. People don't struggle like they used to back in the day.
You have better technology/science these days, but I think that kinda makes it easier for guys.
Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.
posted on 18/2/15
comment by newWAYNEorder #iamrobb (U20092)
posted 5 hours, 17 minutes ago
Footballers score more goals
Seriously? Yes due to fitness and medical improvements, top players play longer at the highest level, but that's all across the pitch, defenders too.
JImmy Greaves, goal scoring machine, when opposition players could kick chunks out of them without more than a word from the ref if it was REALLY severe. Today, Greaves would bag 40+ a season with the protection players get.
I'd wager the same in boxing, if you took top boxers from 50 years ago forwards now, they'd struggle against the top ones today who are stronger and fitter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to score goals when the spend the night before drinking and smoking all the time, with little tactical awareness, no holding players, forwards not tackling back, and defenders selling themselves by diving in from 10 yards out.
posted on 18/2/15
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 14 hours, 52 minutes ago
Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This skill level and the conditioning of the boxers have improved, or is boxing separate from the sporting world
posted on 18/2/15
comment by The Guvnor III V.I.K-Give me a scotch.I'm... (U12889)
posted 14 hours, 43 minutes ago
As athletes boxers are just as conditioned if not more than those in the past. With nutritionists and new technology,supplements,training techniques you are bound to see a improvement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people disagree though.
posted on 18/2/15
comment by John Locke (U1204)
posted 4 hours, 34 minutes ago
The thing is boxing a sport where natural toughness and upbringing plays a part in how you do in the ring. People don't struggle like they used to back in the day.
You have better technology/science these days, but I think that kinda makes it easier for guys.
Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of people are in poverty from all over the world, more so today. But renowned tough fighters such as MAB came from well off educated backgrounds
posted on 18/2/15
D4 I have started a prediction thread on nsb, I will post fights every week but cba to do the points system
feel free to post your predos every week
posted on 18/2/15
"A lot of people are in poverty from all over the world, more so today. But renowned tough fighters such as MAB came from well off educated backgrounds"
==
true, there are exceptions. but generally I think if you come from a tough background and have been through struggle, it shows when you're in the ring. like I said there are exceptions and toughness can only get you so far.
also guys are more protected these days of course, they don't have to fight whoever is put in front of them, they have a different mentality from the old school guys. a fighter can duck someone and say 'he doesn't bring enough money to the table' and the fans will eat it up and accept. not many guys actually WANT to be the best, boxing is only a sport at amateur level unfortunately, at pro level it's become a business
posted on 18/2/15
The introduction of new rules and laws over the years has made boxing less dangerous and less brutal, so you can't really apply your reasoning to a combat sport.
Yes the fighters are better athletes, but being a better athlete doesn't necessarily make you tougher or a better fighter or a more vicious puncher.
posted on 18/2/15
comment by D4thincarnation (U2520)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 14 hours, 52 minutes ago
Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This skill level and the conditioning of the boxers have improved, or is boxing separate from the sporting world
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hadn't realised you was on about the skill level D4, I thought you was on about in general popularity etc.
I'm not sure how you can say the skill level hasn't improved and how you could prove it.
Think John hit the nail on the head when he said
'Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.'
posted on 18/2/15
Modern boxers, dontballow themselves to evolve as they do not put themselves at risk anymore. Yes the health risks, but I mean the professional risks of fighting the man just as good, or challenging your status. Until we get consistent matchups of the best fighting the best, devoid of politics we shall not see a clear cut evolution in boxing. We were on the cusp of it in the 80/s and 90s, but its tailed off. Imo of course.
posted on 18/2/15
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2958416/Manny-Pacquiao-s-trainer-Freddie-Roach-working-game-plan-Floyd-Mayweather.html
posted on 18/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/15
comment by John Locke (U1204)
posted 11 hours, 10 minutes ago
D4 I have started a prediction thread on nsb, I will post fights every week but cba to do the points system
feel free to post your predos every week
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will check it out.
It takes so much time doing the scores. I did make it more difficult for myself trying to be fair and true.
Will help if you really need it and I can spare the time
posted on 19/2/15
SRR used to fight a different guy every week. Now look at today at all the training that goes into peaking on a certain date.
How could be possibly be at peak performance all the time.
Also fought a lot poor opposition.
Today the best fighters fight the best. Sadly not in prize fights but in sparring.
Sparring today is much tougher than ever before and against world class opposition.
Look at all the world champions Pacquiao fought.
posted on 19/2/15
comment by The Guvnor III V.I.K-Give me a scotch.I'm... (U12889)
posted 6 hours, 26 minutes ago
The alphabet belts do not help boxing either. Get rid of all of them and create one belt per division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They bring money into the game, and the fans by those tickets and watch those shows.
posted on 19/2/15
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 10 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by D4thincarnation (U2520)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by derbymanc (U18914)
posted 14 hours, 52 minutes ago
Boxing has definitely gone backwards with the introduction of too many belts, a bonkers ranking system and the best (across all divisions) not having to fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This skill level and the conditioning of the boxers have improved, or is boxing separate from the sporting world
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hadn't realised you was on about the skill level D4, I thought you was on about in general popularity etc.
I'm not sure how you can say the skill level hasn't improved and how you could prove it.
Think John hit the nail on the head when he said
'Also the politics doesn't help, fans open a box of Celebrations every time a good fight is announced, like it's some kind of unexpected surprise.'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point I was making, is that all other sports have improved, but for some reason boxing fans think the golden age happened long ago, though during that time boxing fans back then thought the same thing.
It just that boxing is difficult to measure and see the progress and that fans are too nostalgic.
posted on 19/2/15
"Will check it out.
It takes so much time doing the scores. I did make it more difficult for myself trying to be fair and true.
Will help if you really need it and I can spare the time "
===
Nah fack that lol, takes too much time to score. We'll see roughly who gets the most predictions anyway
posted on 19/2/15
If your on about conditioning etc then boxing will have improved, if your on about the sport itself then my opinion is that it has gone backwards for all the reasons listed above and by John.
The alphabet belts have wrecked a lot of divisions with a lot of daft rankings happening (i read the other day about one of the ranking bodies having someone in that was dead a few years back?????)
Manny and Floyd not happening (no blame lets not turn into one of them threads,) has hurt boxing more than people realise as it's an excuse for a lot of fans to go to MMA as at least there 'the big fights happen' add into the fact you've got the best not fighting each other in other divisions and a very very poor heavyweight division (that could be changing) and it adds up to a p!ss poor sport at the minute.
posted on 19/2/15
Manny and Floyd not happening (no blame lets not turn into one of them threads,) has hurt boxing more than people realise as it's an excuse for a lot of fans to go to MMA as at least there 'the big fights happen' add into the fact you've got the best not fighting each other in other divisions and a very very poor heavyweight division (that could be changing) and it adds up to a p!ss poor sport at the minute.
-------------------------------
Have to agree with a lot of this sadly. I think that there has been a definite decline in boxing in recent times. My personal interest in boxing has waned a lot over the last decade because there has been so little to get really excited about in any of the divisions.
Mayweather and Pacquiao not fighting each other has harmed the sport and will harm the sport further if they never fight (which I've said all along will never happen and I wait to be proved wrong).
I think I'm older than a few posters here and I remember the 80's and the 90's being a much better time for boxing with much more exciting fights.
I kind of feel sorry for the new generation watching boxing at the moment because you're not getting value for money or anything even close to it. Certainly not when compared to yesteryear.
posted on 19/2/15
Agree with Superbs statement. When there are so few major fights that grab the publics imagination,not just boxing fans then something is wrong namely the match-ups. The super 6 super middleweight fights were very good. Apart from promotional/tv issues you would think many other weights could follow suit.
posted on 19/2/15
If we are all being honest, boxing is sufferring a hangover from the heavyweight era. Say what you want but ppl want to see skilled beasts go toe to toe. Since the division died, the sport on the whole has taken a hit. Now it relies on the occasional BIG fight from at most 13 stone men, which isn't that big.
No glitzy heavyweight division, no sport IMO.
Page 1 of 2