pretty relaxed about the whole thing to be honest
If Wenger does fix the flaws in this team I.e bottling big games, bullied against physical sides, horrific amount of injuries, great stuff
If he doesn't, he will probably leave next summer
Win/win
There are plenty of times when you could've said "we're making great strides forward" in the last few years but then we have a backwards spell and all progress appears to be lost. Last season you could've said we made a lot of progress given we were in the title race for a large chunk of the season and won a trophy. But this year we've countered that "progress" with a pretty average Arsenal season up till now, lose at Old Trafford tomorrow and it'll be like 6 of the last 7 seasons, a potless campaign and a bog standard league finish with nothing really to look forward to in the last 2 months of the season. And no, I don't enjoy top 4 battles to get in a competition we add little value to these days.
There are regular false dawns with Arsenal, you think we're on the up, then we go backwards.
The problem is a lot of the time we seem to do one step forward, one step back and quite often the step forward is in attack and the step back is in defence. Maybe if Debuchy hadn't got injured I would not be saying that though but so far this season we have had long term injuries to him, Arteta, Giroud, Ramsey, Wilshere, Theo and you could include others.
But this is still not my biggest concern with Wenger, which is that he consistently fails to address the glaring weaknesses in the team. DM and CB where not addressed adequately in the summer with TV leaving.
I think an equal amount of fans are scared of change. They believe only Wenger can lead us forward and that simply isn't the case.
Does he love the club? Yes. No doubt.
Did he love the club before he arrived? Most probably not. So why can't a more modern, top quality manager also adopt that love for the club while taking us forward as a team?
As Chris said, its pretty much win/win. Either Wenger is successful in his final term, or its just that, his final term. One way or another I'm excited about the future and wouldn't swap our position with any other club.
Sorry but I'm pretty sure we've been begging for 'A top class centre back and defensive midfielder' for at least 6 or 7 seasons now, what's the evidence to suggest we'll get one this year? And if you say something about finances... considering we've had at least six windows where we've spent a decent amount of cash, going back to the Giroud Podolski Cazorla summer, where Wenger thought Diaby was a good enough option . Completely unconvinced, based on the evidence, that we'll do anything spectacular, but maybe, with a few central midfielders likely to leave at the end of the season, we might be forced to, thankfully.
"If he doesn't, he will probably leave next summer"
loool... Do you really believe this? His ego wouldn't allow such a self-admission of failure. Else, he would have quit Arsenal long ago. Probably as far back as 2010.
I don't think there's a bigger critic of Wenger than the man himself, and that includes Piers Morgan!
My views on Wenger won't change regardless of specific match results. I still want him gone even if we massacre Man U and Monaco. It's a long-term thing. Wenger has lost the drive and desire to succeed which was key to our success in his first decade. I accept that at some point we were burdened with the stadium project, but I remember in 2008 when we were topping the table and looking brilliant and Wenger said if he is offered a transfer chest he will reject it, and after the Eduardo leg-break our season went up in smoke. But my bigger problem with Wenger is that he is far too powerful for a manager and literally runs the club single-handedly. As a result he is not answerable to anybody and has no KPI. The board has even said they have no plan B if Wenger leaves. Not even Fergie was that powerful, in fact Fergie was nearly sacked after a poor run and was forced by the Irishmen to accept a 12-month rolling contract. If Wenger had gone to Real Madrid 10 years ago and managed the way he does at Arsenal he would have been sacked soon after.
"loool... Do you really believe this? His ego wouldn't allow such a self-admission of failure. Else, he would have quit Arsenal long ago. Probably as far back as 2010."
Nah, he truly believed in his top 4 project all these years.
I reckon he thought he'd win the league either last season or this and he's failed miserably.
I think he'll give himself one more chance next season but if he again falls 8/9 points clear of the title he'll have no choice but to give it up, particuarly if he spends another big chunk of money in the summer.
Daily Mail praises Arsene Wenger....seldom enough.
I can't understand some on this forum who can't let it go.....want Wenger out just for the sake of it. How can it be a win/win situation if Wenger leaves ....it is forever. No return no matter what happen with a new manager.
Wenger has a vision and from his point of view it's not done yet. It's not all rosy out of a sudden....but AFC could easily be dissappeared from the big stage if Wenger didnt manage to bring us the 4th place trophy over and over again.
"I don't think there's a bigger critic of Wenger than the man himself"
Yeah, that's why he's desperately hung on to the job (on obscene, improving wages) like some 3rd world dictator after a long list of failures. Self-critics are the likes of Guardiola and Maureen. They simply cannot abide failure and would happily quit if they think they're not getting the best from their teams. Wenger would sit tight, collecting £8m every year for achieving a bare minimum managing a team exhibiting the same deficiencies year after year after year.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 1 minute ago
"I don't think there's a bigger critic of Wenger than the man himself"
Yeah, that's why he's desperately hung on to the job (on obscene, improving wages) like some 3rd world dictator after a long list of failures. Self-critics are the likes of Guardiola and Maureen. They simply cannot abide failure and would happily quit if they think they're not getting the best from their teams. Wenger would sit tight, collecting £8m every year for achieving a bare minimum managing a team exhibiting the same deficiencies year after year after year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont think that Mou is interested in any kind of team success. His ego is so big that he is only in his own success.
RonAlvinho (U6117)
"I think an equal amount of fans are scared of change. They believe only Wenger can lead us forward and that simply isn't the case."
---------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. This has been our biggest handicap. We think there is no Arsenal after Wenger.
For all this talk of him leaving us in a great position, our squad needs a fair of bit work over the next 1/2 years.
The only player we have who's in their prime delivering top performances, albeit not recently, is Sanchez.
Aside from that we have a core team that is either past or just coming out of their peak. Arteta, Flamini, Mert, Koscielny, Monreal, Debuchy, Cazorla, Rosicky all at the age where you would think their very best performances are probably behind them.
I don't know what to think of the mid-twenties part of our squad. Ramsey, who's had 6 months of good form in 5 seasons, Ozil who occasionally puts in a decent pass when he fancies it, Wilshere perenially recovering from injury, Welbeck treated like a 19 year old youngster with potential by fans when he's turning 25 this year, Szcz building up expectations with a good few months before inevitably letting it all come crashing down.
We have a couple of promising youngsters like Ox and Chambers but it's hard to see where this squad is going.
"As a result he is not answerable to anybody and has no KPI."
This is one of the biggest frustrations. We seem to be the only club in England and top club in Europe where the manager is seemingly accountable to only himself. He unilaterally defines what success is for Arsenal and sets his own standards and the fans and even the club stakeholders lap it up.
"Dont think that Mou is interested in any kind of team success. His ego is so big that he is only in his own success."
His success is the team's success. His ego is positive for the team cos he doesn't tolerate failure. That's why his teams are disciplined and can run through brick walls for the cause.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 4 minutes ago
"Dont think that Mou is interested in any kind of team success. His ego is so big that he is only in his own success."
His success is the team's success. His ego is positive for the team cos he doesn't tolerate failure. That's why his teams are disciplined and can run through brick walls for the cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course there is a correlation between team's success and his own
Do you think Wenger likes to lose? He has a different approach to hide his anger. That doesnt make the desire to win bigger.
It's not about "liking" to lose. It's about intolerance of the mentality and consequences for losing. Maureen's atmosphere makes losing seem unthinkable. Even if you overcame his teams, you feel bloodied and battered. Losing just rolls off the back of Wenger's teams - like water off a croc's back. The mentality indulges losing, and the way the losses happen has become consistent - often capitulating with weak, naive challenges.
How can you know what Wenger really is going through after a loss? Only he is not showing his emotions like Mou doesnt mean he is not going through hell.
Who ever wrote this article has a mentality of being happy to be 3rd.
The future for Arsenal is bright if they are right now competing for 1st with Chelsea at the top of the table, when are arsenal ever at that stage at this point in the season? Wenger has gradually dragged Arsenal into a 4th place team and there are now more than 4 teams who can finish in the top 4.
The top 4 used to be set in stone: United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool. There was no one else even near these days at the end of the last decade, now City have emerged and Spurs are always knocking, can Wenger make it last? I dont think so, hes been on a downward tragectory for ages and one day soon arsenal will be kicked out of the top 4 club
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Arsenal could be great again without Wenger
There's no doubt Wenger loves the club, and that most fans (myself included) love him back. The way he transformed the club was incredible.
That's the pleasantries out the way.
Wenger is a bit of a loser now. My theory is having to get top 4 post stadium move has mellowed him a bit. Allowing good players to go to rivals is another symptom of this.
The question I always ask myself is, can you see him winning the league or cl for us? I can't. The mistakes that have been repeated time and time again don't help.
If you're happy with struggling for top 4, he's the man. Of you want more, then the best bet is to look for a new manager. I'd like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong, but I sadly just can't see it.
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 11 minutes ago
There's no doubt Wenger loves the club, and that most fans (myself included) love him back. The way he transformed the club was incredible.
That's the pleasantries out the way.
Wenger is a bit of a loser now. My theory is having to get top 4 post stadium move has mellowed him a bit. Allowing good players to go to rivals is another symptom of this.
The question I always ask myself is, can you see him winning the league or cl for us? I can't. The mistakes that have been repeated time and time again don't help.
If you're happy with struggling for top 4, he's the man. Of you want more, then the best bet is to look for a new manager. I'd like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong, but I sadly just can't see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said mate.
Sign in if you want to comment
Daily Mail praising Arsene & Arsenal...
Page 1 of 2
posted on 8/3/15
pretty relaxed about the whole thing to be honest
If Wenger does fix the flaws in this team I.e bottling big games, bullied against physical sides, horrific amount of injuries, great stuff
If he doesn't, he will probably leave next summer
Win/win
posted on 8/3/15
There are plenty of times when you could've said "we're making great strides forward" in the last few years but then we have a backwards spell and all progress appears to be lost. Last season you could've said we made a lot of progress given we were in the title race for a large chunk of the season and won a trophy. But this year we've countered that "progress" with a pretty average Arsenal season up till now, lose at Old Trafford tomorrow and it'll be like 6 of the last 7 seasons, a potless campaign and a bog standard league finish with nothing really to look forward to in the last 2 months of the season. And no, I don't enjoy top 4 battles to get in a competition we add little value to these days.
There are regular false dawns with Arsenal, you think we're on the up, then we go backwards.
posted on 8/3/15
The problem is a lot of the time we seem to do one step forward, one step back and quite often the step forward is in attack and the step back is in defence. Maybe if Debuchy hadn't got injured I would not be saying that though but so far this season we have had long term injuries to him, Arteta, Giroud, Ramsey, Wilshere, Theo and you could include others.
But this is still not my biggest concern with Wenger, which is that he consistently fails to address the glaring weaknesses in the team. DM and CB where not addressed adequately in the summer with TV leaving.
posted on 8/3/15
I think an equal amount of fans are scared of change. They believe only Wenger can lead us forward and that simply isn't the case.
Does he love the club? Yes. No doubt.
Did he love the club before he arrived? Most probably not. So why can't a more modern, top quality manager also adopt that love for the club while taking us forward as a team?
As Chris said, its pretty much win/win. Either Wenger is successful in his final term, or its just that, his final term. One way or another I'm excited about the future and wouldn't swap our position with any other club.
posted on 8/3/15
Sorry but I'm pretty sure we've been begging for 'A top class centre back and defensive midfielder' for at least 6 or 7 seasons now, what's the evidence to suggest we'll get one this year? And if you say something about finances... considering we've had at least six windows where we've spent a decent amount of cash, going back to the Giroud Podolski Cazorla summer, where Wenger thought Diaby was a good enough option . Completely unconvinced, based on the evidence, that we'll do anything spectacular, but maybe, with a few central midfielders likely to leave at the end of the season, we might be forced to, thankfully.
posted on 8/3/15
"If he doesn't, he will probably leave next summer"
loool... Do you really believe this? His ego wouldn't allow such a self-admission of failure. Else, he would have quit Arsenal long ago. Probably as far back as 2010.
posted on 8/3/15
I don't think there's a bigger critic of Wenger than the man himself, and that includes Piers Morgan!
posted on 8/3/15
My views on Wenger won't change regardless of specific match results. I still want him gone even if we massacre Man U and Monaco. It's a long-term thing. Wenger has lost the drive and desire to succeed which was key to our success in his first decade. I accept that at some point we were burdened with the stadium project, but I remember in 2008 when we were topping the table and looking brilliant and Wenger said if he is offered a transfer chest he will reject it, and after the Eduardo leg-break our season went up in smoke. But my bigger problem with Wenger is that he is far too powerful for a manager and literally runs the club single-handedly. As a result he is not answerable to anybody and has no KPI. The board has even said they have no plan B if Wenger leaves. Not even Fergie was that powerful, in fact Fergie was nearly sacked after a poor run and was forced by the Irishmen to accept a 12-month rolling contract. If Wenger had gone to Real Madrid 10 years ago and managed the way he does at Arsenal he would have been sacked soon after.
posted on 8/3/15
"loool... Do you really believe this? His ego wouldn't allow such a self-admission of failure. Else, he would have quit Arsenal long ago. Probably as far back as 2010."
Nah, he truly believed in his top 4 project all these years.
I reckon he thought he'd win the league either last season or this and he's failed miserably.
I think he'll give himself one more chance next season but if he again falls 8/9 points clear of the title he'll have no choice but to give it up, particuarly if he spends another big chunk of money in the summer.
posted on 8/3/15
Daily Mail praises Arsene Wenger....seldom enough.
I can't understand some on this forum who can't let it go.....want Wenger out just for the sake of it. How can it be a win/win situation if Wenger leaves ....it is forever. No return no matter what happen with a new manager.
Wenger has a vision and from his point of view it's not done yet. It's not all rosy out of a sudden....but AFC could easily be dissappeared from the big stage if Wenger didnt manage to bring us the 4th place trophy over and over again.
posted on 8/3/15
"I don't think there's a bigger critic of Wenger than the man himself"
Yeah, that's why he's desperately hung on to the job (on obscene, improving wages) like some 3rd world dictator after a long list of failures. Self-critics are the likes of Guardiola and Maureen. They simply cannot abide failure and would happily quit if they think they're not getting the best from their teams. Wenger would sit tight, collecting £8m every year for achieving a bare minimum managing a team exhibiting the same deficiencies year after year after year.
posted on 8/3/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 1 minute ago
"I don't think there's a bigger critic of Wenger than the man himself"
Yeah, that's why he's desperately hung on to the job (on obscene, improving wages) like some 3rd world dictator after a long list of failures. Self-critics are the likes of Guardiola and Maureen. They simply cannot abide failure and would happily quit if they think they're not getting the best from their teams. Wenger would sit tight, collecting £8m every year for achieving a bare minimum managing a team exhibiting the same deficiencies year after year after year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont think that Mou is interested in any kind of team success. His ego is so big that he is only in his own success.
posted on 8/3/15
RonAlvinho (U6117)
"I think an equal amount of fans are scared of change. They believe only Wenger can lead us forward and that simply isn't the case."
---------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. This has been our biggest handicap. We think there is no Arsenal after Wenger.
posted on 8/3/15
For all this talk of him leaving us in a great position, our squad needs a fair of bit work over the next 1/2 years.
The only player we have who's in their prime delivering top performances, albeit not recently, is Sanchez.
Aside from that we have a core team that is either past or just coming out of their peak. Arteta, Flamini, Mert, Koscielny, Monreal, Debuchy, Cazorla, Rosicky all at the age where you would think their very best performances are probably behind them.
I don't know what to think of the mid-twenties part of our squad. Ramsey, who's had 6 months of good form in 5 seasons, Ozil who occasionally puts in a decent pass when he fancies it, Wilshere perenially recovering from injury, Welbeck treated like a 19 year old youngster with potential by fans when he's turning 25 this year, Szcz building up expectations with a good few months before inevitably letting it all come crashing down.
We have a couple of promising youngsters like Ox and Chambers but it's hard to see where this squad is going.
posted on 8/3/15
"As a result he is not answerable to anybody and has no KPI."
This is one of the biggest frustrations. We seem to be the only club in England and top club in Europe where the manager is seemingly accountable to only himself. He unilaterally defines what success is for Arsenal and sets his own standards and the fans and even the club stakeholders lap it up.
posted on 8/3/15
"Dont think that Mou is interested in any kind of team success. His ego is so big that he is only in his own success."
His success is the team's success. His ego is positive for the team cos he doesn't tolerate failure. That's why his teams are disciplined and can run through brick walls for the cause.
posted on 8/3/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 4 minutes ago
"Dont think that Mou is interested in any kind of team success. His ego is so big that he is only in his own success."
His success is the team's success. His ego is positive for the team cos he doesn't tolerate failure. That's why his teams are disciplined and can run through brick walls for the cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course there is a correlation between team's success and his own
Do you think Wenger likes to lose? He has a different approach to hide his anger. That doesnt make the desire to win bigger.
posted on 8/3/15
It's not about "liking" to lose. It's about intolerance of the mentality and consequences for losing. Maureen's atmosphere makes losing seem unthinkable. Even if you overcame his teams, you feel bloodied and battered. Losing just rolls off the back of Wenger's teams - like water off a croc's back. The mentality indulges losing, and the way the losses happen has become consistent - often capitulating with weak, naive challenges.
posted on 8/3/15
How can you know what Wenger really is going through after a loss? Only he is not showing his emotions like Mou doesnt mean he is not going through hell.
posted on 8/3/15
Who ever wrote this article has a mentality of being happy to be 3rd.
The future for Arsenal is bright if they are right now competing for 1st with Chelsea at the top of the table, when are arsenal ever at that stage at this point in the season? Wenger has gradually dragged Arsenal into a 4th place team and there are now more than 4 teams who can finish in the top 4.
The top 4 used to be set in stone: United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool. There was no one else even near these days at the end of the last decade, now City have emerged and Spurs are always knocking, can Wenger make it last? I dont think so, hes been on a downward tragectory for ages and one day soon arsenal will be kicked out of the top 4 club
posted on 8/3/15
These clubs i should say
posted on 8/3/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/3/15
Arsenal could be great again without Wenger
posted on 8/3/15
There's no doubt Wenger loves the club, and that most fans (myself included) love him back. The way he transformed the club was incredible.
That's the pleasantries out the way.
Wenger is a bit of a loser now. My theory is having to get top 4 post stadium move has mellowed him a bit. Allowing good players to go to rivals is another symptom of this.
The question I always ask myself is, can you see him winning the league or cl for us? I can't. The mistakes that have been repeated time and time again don't help.
If you're happy with struggling for top 4, he's the man. Of you want more, then the best bet is to look for a new manager. I'd like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong, but I sadly just can't see it.
posted on 8/3/15
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 11 minutes ago
There's no doubt Wenger loves the club, and that most fans (myself included) love him back. The way he transformed the club was incredible.
That's the pleasantries out the way.
Wenger is a bit of a loser now. My theory is having to get top 4 post stadium move has mellowed him a bit. Allowing good players to go to rivals is another symptom of this.
The question I always ask myself is, can you see him winning the league or cl for us? I can't. The mistakes that have been repeated time and time again don't help.
If you're happy with struggling for top 4, he's the man. Of you want more, then the best bet is to look for a new manager. I'd like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong, but I sadly just can't see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said mate.
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